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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 6, 2015 8:53:54 GMT -5
It's not meta. It's just an archetypal wrestling character that happens to catch on with a crowd because they find it entertaining. That's all. Not matter how much you try to spin it, it's still meta. It isn't, and it's got nothing to do with spin. It's entirely consistent inside the context of kayfabe wrestling. The character of "the endearing goof".
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 6, 2015 8:58:34 GMT -5
Not matter how much you try to spin it, it's still meta. It isn't, and it's got nothing to do with spin. It's entirely consistent inside the context of kayfabe wrestling. The character of "the endearing goof". You must have a different definition of meta because it doesn't matter if Bo is suppose to be a goof or not, his gimmick is meta. Doesn't matter if it fits in the realm of pro wrestling or any other show.
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Post by Andy Martin on Jan 6, 2015 9:38:09 GMT -5
Not matter how much you try to spin it, it's still meta. It isn't, and it's got nothing to do with spin. It's entirely consistent inside the context of kayfabe wrestling. The character of "the endearing goof". What IS meta then?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 9:48:38 GMT -5
It seems like the logical thing for them to have done would have been to get the Ascension over in this gimmick by acknowledging that they were paying tribute to the great teams of the past like the Road Warriors and "continuing their path of destruction." Pops by association, so to speak. So, of course, they go the other way and have them crap all over those teams, purposely drawing attention to how inferior they are. License to print money!
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 6, 2015 9:49:00 GMT -5
It isn't, and it's got nothing to do with spin. It's entirely consistent inside the context of kayfabe wrestling. The character of "the endearing goof". What IS meta then? {Spoiler}{Spoiler} That said if they were going for the Delusional superiority complex heel thing (which yes can work.) no, commentator should be burying them. Especially the heel one. The heel one should sing their praise like they're the second coming (especially when they have something like the longest running tag team champion in NXT history on their resume) The face should be incredulous that they may be talented but the Road Warriors are hall of famers... etc. Talking about how stupid or shitty the wrestlers are does nothing but bury your own product... if the voices of the company don't give a shit why the hell should anyone else?
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Squirrel Master
Hank Scorpio
"Then the Squirrel Master came out of left field and told me I'm his bitch!"
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Post by Squirrel Master on Jan 6, 2015 9:50:12 GMT -5
These goof-children shall not last long. That is all.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 6, 2015 9:53:34 GMT -5
{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler} That said if they were going for the Delusional superiority complex heel thing (which yes can work.) no, commentator should be burying them. Especially the heel one. The heel one should sing their praise like they're the second coming (especially when they have something like the longest running tag team champion in NXT history on their resume) The face should be incredulous that they may be talented but the Road Warriors are hall of famers... etc. Talking about how stupid or shitty the wrestlers are does nothing but bury your own product... if the voices of the company don't give a shit why the hell should anyone else? JBL was doing that on Raw last week. I think their promo last night took him out of his usual heeldom. Like he gave his honest reaction instead of Vince yelling in his ear reaction. That's why WWE needs a second heel announcer and I'm not talking about Alex Riley worthless ass.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 6, 2015 9:56:59 GMT -5
It seems like the logical thing for them to have done would have been to get the Ascension over in this gimmick by acknowledging that they were paying tribute to the great teams of the past like the Road Warriors and "continuing their path of destruction." Pops by association, so to speak. So, of course, they go the other way and have them crap all over those teams, purposely drawing attention to how inferior they are. License to print money! Saying they are paying tribute to them is a failure too because no way they can live up to the lineage of those duos even if they tried. Be LOD with Heidenreich and Animal all over again.
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Post by hossfan on Jan 6, 2015 10:00:00 GMT -5
The Ascension aren't going to suffer because because JBL goofed on a goofy tag team. Seriously, if he had hyped them up as the second coming of The Road Warriors there would have been a thread complaining about that. Just like there are comments every week talking about how ridiculous the announcers are for over-selling the significance of the event. Just like there are posts deriding the logic of heels automatically siding with other heels and faces not always helping other faces.
If you are getting more pleasure out of criticizing the product than the product itself, its time to stop watching.
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Dang!
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Dang! on Jan 6, 2015 10:07:37 GMT -5
As I said in another thread they will be treated like EC3 and MVP at first by getting squash victories over total jobbers. The commentary will point out that they are total jobbers like JBL did with MVP back then. Then, however, they won't get pushed into sneaky victories over real threats, but get the treatment that Crimson got in the end: Have their "winning streak" end with a total squash that will end their careers in WWE. I somehow think the authority will sic them on Cena, Reigns or even Ryback and the face will totally annihilate both of them. The end. They are f***ed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 10:20:42 GMT -5
I love how everyone is talking like The Ascension are worse than Demolition. Demolition were shit, let's be honest. Ascension are far superior to them. The only reason Demolition are held in any esteem is because they were about during a popular period of wrestling.
I just don't get what last night was meant to achieve unless Ascension are going to crush the APA or something.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jan 6, 2015 10:52:26 GMT -5
I personally think Demolition were better than the Road Warriors. Watch some of their matches against The Hart Foundation, Brain Busters, and Rockers. The bigger problem is that The Ascension just don't look the part on a basic level. Konnor is a reasonably big guy, but not remotely as big and powerful as either LOD or Demolition. And Victor just looks like some dude. They are miscast in the role of a dominant powerhouse tag team. They seem more like a poor man's version of The Eliminators to me, especially with the Total Elimination style finisher.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Jan 6, 2015 10:56:37 GMT -5
I really do believe that one of the WWE higher-ups (maybe Kevin Dunn, maybe some other stooge) is going out of their way to sabotage The Ascension the second they got on the main roster and prove a "point" about NXT. So far, they are succeeding.
I haven't seen much of their NXT work but that shouldn't matter. The point of wrestling is to highlight your wrestlers' strengths and downplay their weaknesses. You can't honestly tell me that promo wasn't designed to highlight every weakness about the Ascension.
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trollrogue
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Nashville City of Music!!
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Post by trollrogue on Jan 6, 2015 11:34:05 GMT -5
The overabundance of actual legit tag teams in the WWE makes me somewhat encouraged that all 3 of the WWE announcers were badmouthing The Ascension. It's something new, kinda like how all 3 of the announcers will cheer against Rusev (despite Rusev being booked as a virtuous face most of the time, who protects Lana and has pride for his country and never really cheats unless the Big Show is around) and he has quite a large amount of heat on him to be defeated currently.
If Ascension goes on a domination spree and even JBL is heckling them week in and week out trying to get someone to knock them off (and lets face it JBL is the most popular announcer in the WWE right now judging by the J-B-L chants smarks start during piss-break matches) it would seem the WWE is actually going to seriously push an NXT team, making it another group from NXT that gets heavy support from WWE Creative (the others being The Shield and The Wyatt Family).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 11:41:15 GMT -5
If Ascension goes on a domination spree and even JBL is heckling them week in and week out trying to get someone to knock them off (and lets face it JBL is the most popular announcer in the WWE right now judging by the J-B-L chants smarks start during piss-break matches) it would seem the WWE is actually going to seriously push an NXT team, making it another group from NXT that gets heavy support from WWE Creative (the others being The Shield and The Wyatt Family). That's the thing though, even the Ascension's dominance last night was ridiculed and mocked. JBL pointed out that their opponents were a couple of no-names who posed absolutely no threat, and either him or Booker made some comment about "I'd like to see them in the ring with a real tag team." Everything about their commentary last night was designed to completely undermine the team's credibility, and it's completely ****ing baffling to me. I've seen NXT call-ups get misused (Paige) or jobbed out (Emma) but this is the first case I've seen of blatant sabotage.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 6, 2015 11:49:42 GMT -5
It isn't, and it's got nothing to do with spin. It's entirely consistent inside the context of kayfabe wrestling. The character of "the endearing goof". You must have a different definition of meta because it doesn't matter if Bo is suppose to be a goof or not, his gimmick is meta. Doesn't matter if it fits in the realm of pro wrestling or any other show. I do have a different definition of meta, which would be the actual definition of meta. It isn't, and it's got nothing to do with spin. It's entirely consistent inside the context of kayfabe wrestling. The character of "the endearing goof". What IS meta then? Meta is where a work transcends it's in-universe boundary. So for example, Spaceballs, when they start watching Spaceballs and are fully aware that they are in a movie. In a wrestling context, meta occurs for example when wrestlers start acknowledging tropes and conventions that often occur in wrestling. I love how everyone is talking like The Ascension are worse than Demolition. Demolition were shit, let's be honest. Ascension are far superior to them. The only reason Demolition are held in any esteem is because they were about during a popular period of wrestling. I just don't get what last night was meant to achieve unless Ascension are going to crush the APA or something. You're completely wrong. Demolition were an awesome team. Completely believable as being a dominant team. Ascension couldn't carry their jocks. But the announcers should never say that. Part of the reason wrestling was so popular during the Demolition era is because tag team wrestling was treated so seriously, and they were a huge part of that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 11:54:26 GMT -5
I grew up during the Demolition time. I disliked them then and looking back now, I find them even more terrible. Different tastes, I guess.
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salz4life
Grimlock
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Post by salz4life on Jan 6, 2015 12:02:31 GMT -5
Can Bradshaw and Farroq still work? Maybe they are setting up a one off feud with the APA to get them over? I don't know..... I thought it was a pretty pointless segment (I just watched it).
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Post by MichaelMartini on Jan 6, 2015 13:30:43 GMT -5
Some rookies say they're going to be better than two bonafide legendary teams before their debut match against jobbers and people think what JBL said was over the line? I'm not sure but JBL must have worked with at least LOD. Made perfect sense for him to treat it with derision.
But having them say that and it not being clear whether they're supposed to be heel or face was baffling. These guys might be done quicker than Kizarny.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 13:32:53 GMT -5
What is ridiculous is that they were given this promo. They didn't go out and give a shoot promo so why give this promo to guys only to have both face and heel commentators bury it? Only Cole was trying to put them over and that was not exactly strenuous.
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