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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 18:48:03 GMT -5
The Ascension aren't going to suffer because because JBL goofed on a goofy tag team. Seriously, if he had hyped them up as the second coming of The Road Warriors there would have been a thread complaining about that. Just like there are comments every week talking about how ridiculous the announcers are for over-selling the significance of the event. Just like there are posts deriding the logic of heels automatically siding with other heels and faces not always helping other faces. If you are getting more pleasure out of criticizing the product than the product itself, its time to stop watching. Preach. I think people who apparently know exactly why commentary works, as if WWE have no idea what they are doing with this scripted show, completely over-egg how much influence something like this has on their talent's careers. Put it this way, if the Ascension are going to be successful, and if the crowd (and by crowd, I don't mean people analysing what the company 'should' be doing and how the crowd 'should' react on the back of that, I mean normal people reacting to entertainment for entertainment's sake), if the crowd end up engaging with the Ascension, that will happen with or without JBL ragging on them one week. Vince's podcast interview should have been an eye opener rather than be ridiculed with 'brass ring jokes'. I think we as fans have been actually under-served in terms of quality of talent on the roster for a few years (06-2011 I think were pretty tough looking back) in that we think because guys aren't getting over, it's because the company isn't making them get over. Now, ignoring the contradictory hypocrisy that comes from people complaining that Talent X is getting 'shoved down their throats', we are seeing how that talent across the roster is getting over simply because they are talented. If Adrian Neville appears on Raw for the first time and does the Red Arrow, and it makes the entire crowd gasp and leap up out of their seats, it doesn't matter one jot if JBL is sitting there saying 'Haha! Look at that Mighty Mouse lookalike Michael! He think's he's a wrestler!'. No doubt a load of posts will spring up on here saying 'How am I supposed to care about Neville if he gets ridiculed' but it's entirely missing the point. Most people will simply watch the show to be entertained rather than over-analyse, and they just jumped out of their seats in amazement. It doesn't matter what JBL says, because the crowd has spoken. And this is what Vince wants. True stars. And true stars aren't made because we are told to like them or hate them. It's because we actually like or hate them. Maybe they are just throwing a few things at the wall and seeing how The Ascension are best presented. They were facey last week, this week more obviously heelish. If the crowd latches on one way or the other, that's how they might continue. But what JBL was saying here doesn't really matter. If what JBL says actually makes that much difference, they weren't going to be stars in the first place. I would even suggest that if people are worried that this would have any effect, it's because deep down they know it won't really work for certain talent. Because you know, if someone cuts an awesome promo, or pulls off a ridiculous move, you know it's good. And no heel commentator trying to ridicule it is going to tell you otherwise. True stars will make it because they are stars. And that's what Vince means by the brass ring. He simply hasn't had enough of them over the last few years. You don't think it's a little self destructive to put these guys on camera and have the commentary team unanimously suggest that they're not ready for the spotlight? You're right in that a lot of the time cream rises to the top, Daniel Bryan exemplifies that, but that doesn't mean the rule should be "shit on them, who cares, if they're any good they'll make it anyways." Doesn't it sound a whole lot more productive to have a philosophy of treating everyone like stars and hope their talent can back it up? You can blame the talent all you want, and yes it's likely that a lot of these guys are failing to adapt (or accept) to WWE's current booking philosophy but it's a self fulfilling prophecy anyways, they treat their talent like losers and thus are perceived as losers. Maybe a lot of the guys who didn't or aren't making it wouldn't make it anyways but they make it awful hard to tell when it doesn't appear as though they were ever given a shot to begin with. If Vince doesn't think the majority of his roster is worth anything then he should change his roster. Whether the Ascension are really all that good (I'm not a fan) is irrelevant, I really don't see how you can defend treating guys like that. The Ascension never asked anyone to compare them to LOD, they were told to tell everyone to compare them to LOD simply so the commentary can tell them they're not even close. How does that make sense?
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Post by aliciafoxfan on Jan 6, 2015 18:49:19 GMT -5
The Ascension pop? Guys, they weren't getting reactions but go back and watch Jinder Mahal come out at the Royal Rumble his first year I believe. It was so quiet in the arena I hear a nickel gently rolling on the floor in the bathroom. Are we forgetting Conway himself? go to the may 19th episode when they were going Crazy for Shawn Michaels and then immediately shut up as soon as Rob Conway entered Or last year after DB Won Superstar of the year Slammy Del Rio came out and immediately the crowd shut up.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 18:58:06 GMT -5
X-Pac is going on about how they shouldn't have done that promo because they did not catch on in their debut the previous week. Even a wrestler is now falling for "success instantly or you are a failure".
I give up.
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Post by sportatorium on Jan 6, 2015 19:20:03 GMT -5
X-Pac is going on about how they shouldn't have done that promo because they did not catch on in their debut the previous week. Even a wrestler is now falling for "success instantly or you are a failure". I give up. Those two guys have zero control over whether they cut that promo or not. Sean Waltman doesn't have a clue what talent is up against in 2014. Maybe I'm defending them too much, but it looks like they are trying their best to make chicken salad out you know what. As far as JBL goes, he can be good on commentary, but they need to decide if he's a heel or a salty veteran. A guy who is supposed to be a heel sticking up for a team that was babyface for the majority of their careers because a couple of greenhorns got sent out to look foolish adds less than zero to the product and the talent. Both of which are his job to put over.
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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Jan 6, 2015 19:39:58 GMT -5
It caught my attention that even the spanish commentators were "burying" the ascension and their opponents, so I think that their idea was that, to mock them
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Post by 2 time pro bowler Fred Dryer on Jan 6, 2015 20:57:22 GMT -5
If commentary continues to "disrespect" them, (which I'm not so sure they even did, by just pointing out the obvious) as their push continues, and they beat credible competition, it's a valid argument. But, I doubt that's going to happen.
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Ginger Beer Man
Dennis Stamp
Jam Up Guy
The kids can call you HoJu!
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Post by Ginger Beer Man on Jan 7, 2015 23:13:57 GMT -5
They look like shit and have nothing going for them as of yet. Whoever thought they should have mic time this early is stupid. Play to the strengths and be patient.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 23:38:33 GMT -5
Judging by everything I'm reading everywhere, so this team is officially damaged goods already?
This must be a record. Even Fake Diesel and Fake Razor didn't bomb this fast.
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Post by benstudd on Jan 7, 2015 23:47:02 GMT -5
It has been a while since I had been so embarrassed watching a wrestling act on TV. Well after Dixie Carter getting thrown in a table that is.
Who thought having two guys saying we're Roadies/Demolition rip-offs was a good idea? and then having the PBP guys burying them. Never seen anything quite like it. I was like poor guys, it's already over for you.
It's especially strange since The Ascension if I remember right by what I saw of them they were more like vampires and it's the WWE themselves who went out of their ways to have them dress like Animal and Hawk and cut similar promos before going to Smackdown and RAW. So they haven't not done this forever. Sure they are supposed to be limited in the ring and destroyers like the Roadies where but they sort of had their own thing.
Only thing that can saves this would be if the WWE bring in Bad Influence.
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Post by Corre.222 on Jan 8, 2015 0:45:26 GMT -5
I have RAW on as background noise, and couldn't help but notice that JBL was effusively praising the Ascension BEFORE the Ascensions promo/mic time. Then it was a hate fest right after. Maybe....JBL was legimitately really angered at the Ascension for putting down LOD and wanted to get revenge as well as stand up for his friends (Legion Of Doom???). It is also quite odd for JBL to be hating on heels
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 8, 2015 1:01:20 GMT -5
First impressions count. If the announcers are mocking them right from the start, what does that accomplish? It makes them look like losers immediately. What's the gain?
It's stupid illogical booking. Part of a long standing pattern in WWE.
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Post by Starshine on Jan 8, 2015 1:20:16 GMT -5
I think it's ridiculous that some people here just expect the rest of us to just take the fact a lot of these guys are forced to try and get themselves over in spite of the company supposedly behind them because "it's wrestling."
What other forms of entertainment will so openly disparage their own acts?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 1:45:32 GMT -5
The impression I was getting is that they're going to do a thing where they'll gradually prove themselves to JBL and make a fan out of him, but I doubt WWE'll actually see that through.
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Post by bmfjules on Jan 8, 2015 2:37:56 GMT -5
I have RAW on as background noise, and couldn't help but notice that JBL was effusively praising the Ascension BEFORE the Ascensions promo/mic time. Then it was a hate fest right after. Maybe....JBL was legimitately really angered at the Ascension for putting down LOD and wanted to get revenge as well as stand up for his friends (Legion Of Doom???). It is also quite odd for JBL to be hating on heels Combo of that and WWE directives possibly. Did you see how legit pissed off Lance Storm was about them "disrespecting Hawk" a deceased friend of his? I think it may be Vince and Dunn getting a little bit of petty "revenge" on NXT and the perception that its a better show than Raw and JBL perhaps getting fired up in the heat of the moment.
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Essential1
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Essential1 on Jan 8, 2015 2:42:03 GMT -5
JBL could really bury them if he wanted.
He could mention Konner used to be called Conner O'Brian for starters. Let's not forget that Rat gimmick.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Jan 8, 2015 5:52:08 GMT -5
Unless the pay-off to this is them beating up Jibble for heel heat, maybe bringing back Ron Simmons for an APA vs Ascension match where the APA put them over, it's extremely pointless.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 8, 2015 6:33:30 GMT -5
This misses the point entirely. The issue isn't "can Ascension survive being buried on commentary?" but rather why is it occurring in the first instance?
There is such a thing as a middle ground. The announcers don't need to overhype or bury.
Many people already have over the years. Can't blame them when the announcers of the company themselves are pissing on the talent as if they aren't worth watching.
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blues
Team Rocket
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Post by blues on Jan 8, 2015 7:14:41 GMT -5
You know whats gonna happen when Neville gets called up.
"LOOK MAGGLE, AN ELF! WE GOT A LIVE ELF IN THE ARENA!"
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 8, 2015 9:19:50 GMT -5
You know whats gonna happen when Neville gets called up. "LOOK MAGGLE, AN ELF! WE GOT A LIVE ELF IN THE ARENA!" Well he is one. The reason Gravity forgot him because elves aren't bond by human physics.
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Post by berlynwright on Jan 8, 2015 9:37:28 GMT -5
You want Ascension?
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