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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 6, 2015 13:42:30 GMT -5
Some rookies say they're going to be better than two bonafide legendary teams before their debut match against jobbers and people think what JBL said was over the line? I'm not sure but JBL must have worked with at least LOD. Made perfect sense for him to treat it with derision. But having them say that and it not being clear whether they're supposed to be heel or face was baffling. These guys might be done quicker than Kizarny. it wasn't their debut match.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Jan 6, 2015 13:54:01 GMT -5
Some rookies say they're going to be better than two bonafide legendary teams before their debut match against jobbers and people think what JBL said was over the line? I'm not sure but JBL must have worked with at least LOD. Made perfect sense for him to treat it with derision. But having them say that and it not being clear whether they're supposed to be heel or face was baffling. These guys might be done quicker than Kizarny. it wasn't their debut match. On Raw. Wasn't it?
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 6, 2015 13:55:58 GMT -5
it wasn't their debut match. On Raw. Wasn't it? Nope, they beat Miz and Mizdow the week before. They were also on Smackdown beating up jobbers.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Jan 6, 2015 13:58:22 GMT -5
Nope, they beat Miz and Mizdow the week before. They were also on Smackdown beating up jobbers. That makes the promo even stranger since it seemed like they were introducing themselves.
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Dave the Dave
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Post by Dave the Dave on Jan 6, 2015 14:07:23 GMT -5
There are a lot of things this could lead too. Could be a delusional crazy Ascension. But that would lead to what? Them losing to an important person?
All it came off as was just shitting on them.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Jan 6, 2015 14:17:38 GMT -5
I wonder if Jibble was legit offended. A few wrestlers, Lance Storm and Foley for example, tweeted that they'd switched Raw off after that, Foley saying it made him throw up in his mouth. Unless it's some kind of work that they've roped a few folks into, it seems like an over-reaction IMO. Basic heeling 101.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 6, 2015 14:21:51 GMT -5
I wonder if Jibble was legit offended. A few wrestlers, Lance Storm and Foley for example, tweeted that they'd switched Raw off after that, Foley saying it made him throw up in his mouth. Unless it's some kind of work that they've roped a few folks into, it seems like an over-reaction IMO. Basic heeling 101. Yeah, there was a lot of how dare they tweets from some wrestlers... I was wondering if I missed something because I didn't remember them doing anything horribly egregious that specifically denigrated Hawk as a person or a performer outside of the usual we are better than everyone that came before us stuff.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on Jan 6, 2015 14:27:51 GMT -5
I wonder if Jibble was legit offended. A few wrestlers, Lance Storm and Foley for example, tweeted that they'd switched Raw off after that, Foley saying it made him throw up in his mouth. Unless it's some kind of work that they've roped a few folks into, it seems like an over-reaction IMO. Basic heeling 101. Yeah, there was a lot of how dare they tweets from some wrestlers... I was wondering if I missed something because I didn't remember them doing anything horribly egregious that specifically denigrated Hawk as a person or a performer outside of the usual we are better than everyone that came before us stuff. Exactly. All they said was "What a joke." If he'd been like "Hawk was an idiot and a drug addict", then punched his wife, I'd understand the outrage. But he said one thing, one thing that wouldn't even register as an insult to most people and all these dudes are getting up in arms? What's up with that? Man. f***ing marks!
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Post by sportatorium on Jan 6, 2015 15:20:53 GMT -5
Lance Storm & Foley were indicating that the segment was written in poor taste since they were sent out to mock a legend who happens to be dead. The Ascension are not going out & shooting.
There is plenty to be done w/them, but they need to stop yelling, get a manager & wreck people.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 17:40:14 GMT -5
Joey Styles tweeted how The Ascension are brave calling out retired teams. Seems like the intended reaction even if it was from former wrestlers as opposed to fans.
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Post by sonofblaine on Jan 6, 2015 17:42:51 GMT -5
That was the quietest I can remember an arena. The birth of the Ascension Pop?
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metylerca
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Post by metylerca on Jan 6, 2015 17:44:39 GMT -5
That was the quietest I can remember an arena. The birth of the Ascension Pop? Rowan pop.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jan 6, 2015 17:49:59 GMT -5
The Ascension are simply jokes. From the look to the promos to how they're being treated, they are joke characters not meant to be taken seriously. JBL is ripping into them like he does any rookie with a big head and no resume and using Hawk's lines to run down the Road Warriors before talking about how you'd run the LOD off the road only makes it easier since JBL loves classic teams. All of that is a staple of his going back to his days on Smackdown.
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wcc2
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Post by wcc2 on Jan 6, 2015 18:02:05 GMT -5
The Ascension aren't going to suffer because because JBL goofed on a goofy tag team. Seriously, if he had hyped them up as the second coming of The Road Warriors there would have been a thread complaining about that. Just like there are comments every week talking about how ridiculous the announcers are for over-selling the significance of the event. Just like there are posts deriding the logic of heels automatically siding with other heels and faces not always helping other faces. If you are getting more pleasure out of criticizing the product than the product itself, its time to stop watching. Preach. I think people who apparently know exactly why commentary works, as if WWE have no idea what they are doing with this scripted show, completely over-egg how much influence something like this has on their talent's careers. Put it this way, if the Ascension are going to be successful, and if the crowd (and by crowd, I don't mean people analysing what the company 'should' be doing and how the crowd 'should' react on the back of that, I mean normal people reacting to entertainment for entertainment's sake), if the crowd end up engaging with the Ascension, that will happen with or without JBL ragging on them one week. Vince's podcast interview should have been an eye opener rather than be ridiculed with 'brass ring jokes'. I think we as fans have been actually under-served in terms of quality of talent on the roster for a few years (06-2011 I think were pretty tough looking back) in that we think because guys aren't getting over, it's because the company isn't making them get over. Now, ignoring the contradictory hypocrisy that comes from people complaining that Talent X is getting 'shoved down their throats', we are seeing how that talent across the roster is getting over simply because they are talented. If Adrian Neville appears on Raw for the first time and does the Red Arrow, and it makes the entire crowd gasp and leap up out of their seats, it doesn't matter one jot if JBL is sitting there saying 'Haha! Look at that Mighty Mouse lookalike Michael! He think's he's a wrestler!'. No doubt a load of posts will spring up on here saying 'How am I supposed to care about Neville if he gets ridiculed' but it's entirely missing the point. Most people will simply watch the show to be entertained rather than over-analyse, and they just jumped out of their seats in amazement. It doesn't matter what JBL says, because the crowd has spoken. And this is what Vince wants. True stars. And true stars aren't made because we are told to like them or hate them. It's because we actually like or hate them. Maybe they are just throwing a few things at the wall and seeing how The Ascension are best presented. They were facey last week, this week more obviously heelish. If the crowd latches on one way or the other, that's how they might continue. But what JBL was saying here doesn't really matter. If what JBL says actually makes that much difference, they weren't going to be stars in the first place. I would even suggest that if people are worried that this would have any effect, it's because deep down they know it won't really work for certain talent. Because you know, if someone cuts an awesome promo, or pulls off a ridiculous move, you know it's good. And no heel commentator trying to ridicule it is going to tell you otherwise. True stars will make it because they are stars. And that's what Vince means by the brass ring. He simply hasn't had enough of them over the last few years.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 18:10:21 GMT -5
The Ascension aren't going to suffer because because JBL goofed on a goofy tag team. Seriously, if he had hyped them up as the second coming of The Road Warriors there would have been a thread complaining about that. Just like there are comments every week talking about how ridiculous the announcers are for over-selling the significance of the event. Just like there are posts deriding the logic of heels automatically siding with other heels and faces not always helping other faces. If you are getting more pleasure out of criticizing the product than the product itself, its time to stop watching. Preach. I think people who apparently know exactly why commentary works, as if WWE have no idea what they are doing with this scripted show, completely over-egg how much influence something like this has on their talent's careers. Put it this way, if the Ascension are going to be successful, and if the crowd (and by crowd, I don't mean people analysing what the company 'should' be doing and how the crowd 'should' react on the back of that, I mean normal people reacting to entertainment for entertainment's sake), if the crowd end up engaging with the Ascension, that will happen with or without JBL ragging on them one week. Vince's podcast interview should have been an eye opener rather than be ridiculed with 'brass ring jokes'. I think we as fans have been actually under-served in terms of quality of talent on the roster for a few years (06-2011 I think were pretty tough looking back) in that we think because guys aren't getting over, it's because the company isn't making them get over. Now, ignoring the contradictory hypocrisy that comes from people complaining that Talent X is getting 'shoved down their throats', we are seeing how that talent across the roster is getting over simply because they are talented. If Adrian Neville appears on Raw for the first time and does the Red Arrow, and it makes the entire crowd gasp and leap up out of their seats, it doesn't matter one jot if JBL is sitting there saying 'Haha! Look at that Mighty Mouse lookalike Michael! He think's he's a wrestler!'. No doubt a load of posts will spring up on here saying 'How am I supposed to care about Neville if he gets ridiculed' but it's entirely missing the point. Most people will simply watch the show to be entertained rather than over-analyse, and they just jumped out of their seats in amazement. It doesn't matter what JBL says, because the crowd has spoken. And this is what Vince wants. True stars. And true stars aren't made because we are told to like them or hate them. It's because we actually like or hate them. Maybe they are just throwing a few things at the wall and seeing how The Ascension are best presented. They were facey last week, this week more obviously heelish. If the crowd latches on one way or the other, that's how they might continue. But what JBL was saying here doesn't really matter. If what JBL says actually makes that much difference, they weren't going to be stars in the first place. I would even suggest that if people are worried that this would have any effect, it's because deep down they know it won't really work for certain talent. Because you know, if someone cuts an awesome promo, or pulls off a ridiculous move, you know it's good. And no heel commentator trying to ridicule it is going to tell you otherwise. True stars will make it because they are stars. And that's what Vince means by the brass ring. He simply hasn't had enough of them over the last few years. I would agree with that to a certain degree but two words make a strong counter-argument - Daniel Bryan. June 2013 to about June 2014 are the ultimate example of a guy taking the brass ring through being a star yet still being trashed by commentary and the company - on screen - and still not being seen as a top guy to this day by them despite the audience thinking he is the God of WWE. The Ascension may be in a period where WWE are trying things but what if they strike big? Viktor isn't tall, "look how goofy they are Maggle" non stop and the crowd have gave up on people before when they were big on them. Look at Zack Ryder. Daniel Bryan is an exception to the WWE rule, not an example of how stars are made. WWE have a complete inability to make a star in 2015 because the people in charge do not have the mental capability to even understand it is the year 2015 anymore nevermind what people want in this time period.
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Post by JTG Fan on Jan 6, 2015 18:28:16 GMT -5
JBL and Booker seemed to be legit bent out of shape over these two nobodys taking perceived shots at the late Hawk, when Vince probably wrote the stupid f***ing promo himself.
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wcc2
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Post by wcc2 on Jan 6, 2015 18:35:50 GMT -5
Preach. I think people who apparently know exactly why commentary works, as if WWE have no idea what they are doing with this scripted show, completely over-egg how much influence something like this has on their talent's careers. Put it this way, if the Ascension are going to be successful, and if the crowd (and by crowd, I don't mean people analysing what the company 'should' be doing and how the crowd 'should' react on the back of that, I mean normal people reacting to entertainment for entertainment's sake), if the crowd end up engaging with the Ascension, that will happen with or without JBL ragging on them one week. Vince's podcast interview should have been an eye opener rather than be ridiculed with 'brass ring jokes'. I think we as fans have been actually under-served in terms of quality of talent on the roster for a few years (06-2011 I think were pretty tough looking back) in that we think because guys aren't getting over, it's because the company isn't making them get over. Now, ignoring the contradictory hypocrisy that comes from people complaining that Talent X is getting 'shoved down their throats', we are seeing how that talent across the roster is getting over simply because they are talented. If Adrian Neville appears on Raw for the first time and does the Red Arrow, and it makes the entire crowd gasp and leap up out of their seats, it doesn't matter one jot if JBL is sitting there saying 'Haha! Look at that Mighty Mouse lookalike Michael! He think's he's a wrestler!'. No doubt a load of posts will spring up on here saying 'How am I supposed to care about Neville if he gets ridiculed' but it's entirely missing the point. Most people will simply watch the show to be entertained rather than over-analyse, and they just jumped out of their seats in amazement. It doesn't matter what JBL says, because the crowd has spoken. And this is what Vince wants. True stars. And true stars aren't made because we are told to like them or hate them. It's because we actually like or hate them. Maybe they are just throwing a few things at the wall and seeing how The Ascension are best presented. They were facey last week, this week more obviously heelish. If the crowd latches on one way or the other, that's how they might continue. But what JBL was saying here doesn't really matter. If what JBL says actually makes that much difference, they weren't going to be stars in the first place. I would even suggest that if people are worried that this would have any effect, it's because deep down they know it won't really work for certain talent. Because you know, if someone cuts an awesome promo, or pulls off a ridiculous move, you know it's good. And no heel commentator trying to ridicule it is going to tell you otherwise. True stars will make it because they are stars. And that's what Vince means by the brass ring. He simply hasn't had enough of them over the last few years. I would agree with that to a certain degree but two words make a strong counter-argument - Daniel Bryan. June 2013 to about June 2014 are the ultimate example of a guy taking the brass ring through being a star yet still being trashed by commentary and the company - on screen - and still not being seen as a top guy to this day by them despite the audience thinking he is the God of WWE. The Ascension may be in a period where WWE are trying things but what if they strike big? Viktor isn't tall, "look how goofy they are Maggle" non stop and the crowd have gave up on people before when they were big on them. Look at Zack Ryder. Daniel Bryan is an exception to the WWE rule, not an example of how stars are made. WWE have a complete inability to make a star in 2015 because the people in charge do not have the mental capability to even understand it is the year 2015 anymore nevermind what people want in this time period. I think Daniel Bryan is completely seen as a top guy, and actually backs up my point completely. He was being called a B plus player on screen and did people buy it? Not for a second. He became a massive star. Mizdow's gimmick is literally that he is an inferior Miz, but he's made it something great. If the Ascension strike big then they strike big. Ryder simply wasn't a fully formed enough character. He was a great comedy guy for a little while then never developed it into anything approaching being a serious threat. If the Ascension get over then they will be fine. In the tag division I think you just need to get over one way, it's when you want to get to the top of the singles ranks that you need to be more fully formed, so they have time and while they are a tag team it will be an easier route for them. Don't really understand your last paragraph, sorry. They are making stars all over the place, because they now have the talent for it. Reigns, Ambrose, Wyatt, Rollins, Bryan, and maybe Ziggler if he continues the way he has been, and maybe Ryback. Further down that we've got Barrett too. The most genuine, well-rounded talent rising to the top I've seen in many a year of watching.
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Dave the Dave
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Post by Dave the Dave on Jan 6, 2015 18:38:02 GMT -5
The Ascension pop? Guys, they weren't getting reactions but go back and watch Jinder Mahal come out at the Royal Rumble his first year I believe.
It was so quiet in the arena I hear a nickel gently rolling on the floor in the bathroom.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 6, 2015 18:41:08 GMT -5
The Ascension pop? Guys, they weren't getting reactions but go back and watch Jinder Mahal come out at the Royal Rumble his first year I believe. It was so quiet in the arena I hear a nickel gently rolling on the floor in the bathroom. Are we forgetting Conway himself? go to the may 19th episode when they were going Crazy for Shawn Michaels and then immediately shut up as soon as Rob Conway entered
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Dave the Dave
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Post by Dave the Dave on Jan 6, 2015 18:44:51 GMT -5
The Ascension pop? Guys, they weren't getting reactions but go back and watch Jinder Mahal come out at the Royal Rumble his first year I believe. It was so quiet in the arena I hear a nickel gently rolling on the floor in the bathroom. Are we forgetting Conway himself? go to the may 19th episode when they were going Crazy for Shawn Michaels and then immediately shut up as soon as Rob Conway entered Very true. I did feel bad for Rowan. A few weeks ago he was getting over and it just fell off a damn cliff.
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