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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 27, 2015 13:11:02 GMT -5
Does it help fan perception when perceived favorite wrestlers or any new wrestlers come in and "pay their dues" to the business. Their is major backlash on Reigns right now because he isn't ready. Sure he hasn't payed it as a singles star yet but he has been involved in crazy matches in his career this far. One wrestler I remember in particular that was showed his "toughness" is Orton in the match between him and Mick. I think fans gave him a little more respect that day and it def helped him in the long run. What is your favorite memories of wrestlers paying their dues and what's your opinion on it.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jan 27, 2015 13:42:08 GMT -5
I do think it helps when a guy can show that he can hang with a "respected" wrestler. It happens on the indies too quite a bit.
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sebulba
Team Rocket
Glass ceiling?!! What glass ceiling?
Posts: 940
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Post by sebulba on Jan 27, 2015 15:38:20 GMT -5
What about Benoit et al chopping the living shit out of Daniel Puder at the Royal Rumble (I forget which year)? Personally, I thought that was ridiculous.....
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 27, 2015 15:51:57 GMT -5
What about Benoit et al chopping the living shit out of Daniel Puder at the Royal Rumble (I forget which year)? Personally, I thought that was ridiculous..... Wasn't that in retaliation for what he did to Angle? |
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sebulba
Team Rocket
Glass ceiling?!! What glass ceiling?
Posts: 940
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Post by sebulba on Jan 27, 2015 16:15:37 GMT -5
Possibly. Still a real dick move considering he wasn't told to not try and submit Angle in the first place....
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2015 16:44:58 GMT -5
I feel like that's an outdated idea.
It wasn't the fact that Punk or Bryan were "indie darlings" that drew me to them and made me want to see them in the main event. I've never been able to get into RoH for a variety of reasons so my only exposure to them was when they started in WWE. Its not really about "paying their dues" so much as its about seeing that they are multi-faceted performers.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 27, 2015 18:09:45 GMT -5
It's generally an excuse for hazing and unprofessional behaviour.
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Brood Lone Wolf Funker
Ozymandius
Got fined anyway.
Possibly a Moose
James Franco is the white Donald Glover
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Post by Brood Lone Wolf Funker on Jan 27, 2015 18:48:34 GMT -5
Davey Richards is known for this
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Post by bmfjules on Jan 27, 2015 19:04:15 GMT -5
The knowledge that a wrestler has "paid some dues" makes it easier for me to get behind them as a person and a personality since it shows that they do have dedication and work ethic to go along with whatever physical gifts they have.
I don't think it ought to be defined as having gone through a hardcore bloodbath of a match or getting stiffed by Bob Holly (although that can certainly be part of it to a small degree) but just a set period of time where an unproven commodity proves their worth in an environment that tests them on a physical, emotional, and intellectual level to see what they're made of. Travel the world, live on toothpase sandwhiches, prove you can get over in different environments like a Finn Balor, then come to the big stage of WWE and check your ego at the door.
It's not a must for a main event star, but I think the guys who haven't gone through some real adversity like having to make a LIVING struggling on the indy scene for a while and destroying themselves for the chance to get to WWE are missing out on a real piece of character building fundamentals.
Sure there's always the Goldbergs of the world who just take the business for granted and had the world handed to them on a platter.... and IF there's money to be made with those guys so be it, but if said people did go through some dues paying process they might not be such unmitigated cocks to deal with on a professional level.
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Jan 27, 2015 19:12:20 GMT -5
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail."
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cait
Trap-Jaw
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Post by cait on Jan 27, 2015 19:51:39 GMT -5
Wrestling is a business of exceptions. Depends who you are.
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WWHHHD
Unicron
Break it down for a 5 second pose!
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Post by WWHHHD on Jan 27, 2015 19:54:04 GMT -5
Paying dues is in the old mentality of the business. Did Cena, Orton, Batista etc pay their dues?
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Post by bmfjules on Jan 27, 2015 19:58:18 GMT -5
Paying dues is in the old mentality of the business. Did Cena, Orton, Batista etc pay their dues? Yes, maybe, and no. Of course what exactly the term means is highly subjective. I would say Cena has paid his dues while he was a top guy in the past ten years on that meat grinder schedule. Orton has paid them in a sense, but still sometimes comes off like that kid whose dad owns the playground. Batista, much as I dig him, as always been an arrogant prick. Hell, that's part of what makes his heel persona so great. |
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WWHHHD
Unicron
Break it down for a 5 second pose!
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Post by WWHHHD on Jan 27, 2015 20:03:43 GMT -5
Not what I meant. Yes I know they have paid them over time. But, did they pay them before getting to the big spot? This is why I dislike the smark (stupid mark) it is a double standard from day to day depending who or what they are complaining about. See Reings, Roman.
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Post by Chip Chipperson on Jan 27, 2015 20:10:35 GMT -5
"Paying your dues" is basically a way for independent companies to excuse bad behaviour.
"You're not getting paid because you're still paying your dues"
"You're getting stiffed because you're still paying your dues"
"You have to sleep on the floor of this motel room because you're still paying your dues"
"Don't talk to this guy all day just to mess with him. He hasn't paid his dues yet"
There are some absolutely horrifying stories about guys having to pay their dues back in the day.
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cait
Trap-Jaw
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Post by cait on Jan 27, 2015 20:11:04 GMT -5
Paying dues is in the old mentality of the business. Did Cena, Orton, Batista etc pay their dues? Haven't heard a Wrestler reference it in a long time. Especially those in NXT and WWE. The dues concept kind of went out of fashion around the FCW era of the company. There was an initiative to get rid things like wrestler handshakes, calling fans marks etc. I think partly due to the negative locker room culture WWE had in the early to mid 00s with all the JBL, Benoit, Holly hasing & it is simply archaic. There's always going to be bitchiness and resentment. But in NXT everyone treats each other as equals. However that's not to say there's underlying issues between Wrestlers and non-Wrestlers but NXT is kind of a consequence how management fails properly manage the problem and actually plays into creating an issue. |
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Post by bmfjules on Jan 27, 2015 20:20:02 GMT -5
Not what I meant. Yes I know they have paid them over time. But, did they pay them before getting to the big spot? This is why I dislike the smark (stupid mark) it is a double standard from day to day depending who or what they are complaining about. See Reings, Roman. There's like three or four different definitions of "paying dues" going around this thread, and I think we'd all probably agree if we just clarified terms. Hazing, like what is mentioned above = bullshit Taking stupid risks/bumps or being dangerous in a match to show how "tough" you are = also bullshit Proving yourself to be a credit to the business through hard work and determination is what I was generally thinking of in reference to the term, which I think everyone would agree is a positive. |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 27, 2015 20:26:47 GMT -5
Paying dues is in the old mentality of the business. Did Cena, Orton, Batista etc pay their dues? Haven't heard a Wrestler reference it in a long time. Especially those in NXT and WWE. The dues concept kind of went out of fashion around the FCW era of the company. There was an initiative to get rid things like wrestler handshakes, calling fans marks etc. I think partly due to the negative locker room culture WWE had in the early to mid 00s with all the JBL, Benoit, Holly hasing & it is simply archaic. There's always going to be bitchiness and resentment. But in NXT everyone treats each other as equals. However that's not to say there's underlying issues between Wrestlers and non-Wrestlers but NXT is kind of a consequence how management fails properly manage the problem and actually plays into creating an issue. I agree we haven't heard of it in a while that's why I brought it up. I think the concept is old sure there is still some instances of it in terms of hazing but I don't it's to the levels that we heard about with JBL, throwing ppl in the ring with Holly etc... |
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Post by Fearless The Tank on Jan 27, 2015 21:12:46 GMT -5
I always saw paying dues as the time, the miles and the struggle of living the life, similar to a starving artist. Hazing is Hazing and nobody should have to deal with someone else's bullshit. However, I do respect a wrestler more when they have gone thru the "paying dues" method. It's like what Jay and Mark Briscoe said in one promo against WGTT, if you depended on them to set up the ring, there wouldn't be a show. I respect the person who takes time to noticeably perfect their craft, rather than rushing to the main stage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 9:59:47 GMT -5
To me, "paying dues" just means that you've been around for a while and showed that you're a dependable talent. It's no different than getting hired for an entry level job and having to show management that you're competent and professional before they will promote you.
I really don't try to argue who has and hasn't "paid their dues" because that's dorky. I'll let the professionals decide who has done that. So long as that person entertains me and I look forward to watching their work, that's all I care about.
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