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Post by thelonewolf527 on Feb 23, 2015 18:46:45 GMT -5
See my sentiments about the Lesnar thing are why I want Reigns to be the guy to beat him
I don't want someone who you've built up to be THE most unstoppable person in the history of the universe to lose to the unlikeliest of underdogs. Reigns is a guy who's been built up as a tough guy with power who's barely lost at all, so in kayfabe I can actually buy into him having a chance.
I voted the entitlement option. It's hard to get into something when you have a ton of people around you trying to tell you that the people you like suck and how the guy who controls everything is a dipshit for wanting to push him. Not to mention it seems we've gotten to the point where people would rather see a shitty storyline as long as their favorite guy is at the top than a good storyline where he isn't. I still try to watch wrestling with that suspension of disbelief, but it almost feels at times that some people would rather kill that off completely instead of trying to embrace it.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,148
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Feb 23, 2015 18:47:53 GMT -5
For me, it's not that they're just ignoring Bryan. Bryan still has a good place on the card and is protected. It's that they are effing over and ignoring the reactions for Ambrose, Ziggler, and Ryback as well. Ziggler is now full on JTTS, which sucks, because the dude can flat out go and should be in the main event. Ambrose is a character who can be as huge as Austin, with great mic skills and in ring ability to match, and yet hes booked as a fool who gets in his own way. An Ryback is over as hell, yet gets no reward, even though he has improved in the ring and on the mic. WWE has three guaranteed stars here, and yet they cut the legs out from under them, and sit around wondering why they have a lack of star power. Absolutely stupid booking from a company who has a roster capable of a great product. The biggest glitch in the system, as far as that goes, is that WWE has HHH and Steph walk right out and tell you EXACTLY what the office thinks of those three, but everyone thinks "Oh, they said it on TV, this must be an angle, it's going to lead to something!" Nope. No it's not. Vince is sending his daughter and her husband to tell you directly how he's going to use them.
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Post by Neo: "The One" who CLAPS on Feb 23, 2015 18:49:44 GMT -5
For me, it's not that they're just ignoring Bryan. Bryan still has a good place on the card and is protected. It's that they are effing over and ignoring the reactions for Ambrose, Ziggler, and Ryback as well. Ziggler is now full on JTTS, which sucks, because the dude can flat out go and should be in the main event. Ambrose is a character who can be as huge as Austin, with great mic skills and in ring ability to match, and yet hes booked as a fool who gets in his own way. An Ryback is over as hell, yet gets no reward, even though he has improved in the ring and on the mic. WWE has three guaranteed stars here, and yet they cut the legs out from under them, and sit around wondering why they have a lack of star power. Absolutely stupid booking from a company who has a roster capable of a great product. The biggest glitch in the system, as far as that goes, is that WWE has HHH and Steph walk right out and tell you EXACTLY what the office thinks of those three, but everyone thinks "Oh, they said it on TV, this must be an angle, it's going to lead to something!" Nope. No it's not. Vince is sending his daughter and her husband to tell you directly how he's going to use them. Take last night. It was made clear that Orton is the real star, and that Ziggler, Ryback, and Rowan aren't close to his level.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Feb 23, 2015 18:54:47 GMT -5
See my sentiments about the Lesnar thing are why I want Reigns to be the guy to beat him I don't want someone who you've built up to be THE most unstoppable person in the history of the universe to lose to the unlikeliest of underdogs. Reigns is a guy who's been built up as a tough guy with power who's barely lost at all, so in kayfabe I can actually buy into him having a chance. I voted the entitlement option. It's hard to get into something when you have a ton of people around you trying to tell you that the people you like suck and how the guy who controls everything is a dipshit for wanting to push him. Not to mention it seems we've gotten to the point where people would rather see a shitty storyline as long as their favorite guy is at the top than a good storyline where he isn't. I still try to watch wrestling with that suspension of disbelief, but it almost feels at times that some people would rather kill that off completely instead of trying to embrace it. But I don't buy Reigns as that guy who can beat Lesnar. I can buy a smaller guy like Bryan or Ziggler as someone who can stick and move and "out wrestle" Lesnar. Brock is bigger than Reigns, stronger than Reigns, more athletic, and more technically sound. Reigns has no real advantage to make me believe he can beat Brock.
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The Yes Man
Unicron
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Post by The Yes Man on Feb 23, 2015 19:00:06 GMT -5
Combination of the first two.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Feb 23, 2015 19:00:29 GMT -5
See my sentiments about the Lesnar thing are why I want Reigns to be the guy to beat him I don't want someone who you've built up to be THE most unstoppable person in the history of the universe to lose to the unlikeliest of underdogs. Reigns is a guy who's been built up as a tough guy with power who's barely lost at all, so in kayfabe I can actually buy into him having a chance. I voted the entitlement option. It's hard to get into something when you have a ton of people around you trying to tell you that the people you like suck and how the guy who controls everything is a dipshit for wanting to push him. Not to mention it seems we've gotten to the point where people would rather see a shitty storyline as long as their favorite guy is at the top than a good storyline where he isn't. I still try to watch wrestling with that suspension of disbelief, but it almost feels at times that some people would rather kill that off completely instead of trying to embrace it. But I don't buy Reigns as that guy who can beat Lesnar. I can buy a smaller guy like Bryan or Ziggler as someone who can stick and move and "out wrestle" Lesnar. Brock is bigger than Reigns, stronger than Reigns, more athletic, and more technically sound. Reigns has no real advantage to make me believe he can beat Brock. Reigns also has a finisher no one's ever kicked out of and was practically undefeated until Raw a few weeks ago
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
Posts: 4,278
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Feb 23, 2015 19:05:00 GMT -5
Why bother supporting any babyfaces when they just pick whoever they want? I feel like Daniel Bryan is the face of this, as CM Punk was. It's not just that these guys are great. It's that these are the only two that broke the glass ceiling; that broke the rules that smarks don't matter, and neither do their favorites. That's why people are so die-hard for them: they were the chosen ones, and they actually reached the top. People see Ziggler, they see Ambrose, and Ryder, and Cesaro, meandering, getting garbage despite their clear talent and following. Then they see the Cena's, the Orton's, and unfortunately, Reigns (and I say this liking the guy), and the spite comes out like clock work. WWE has been able to make a profit out of the bile, but as TNA has shown, that bubble can burst. I get that people are really annoyed at DB fans, just like CM Punk fans, and AJ fans, and Paige fans, etc. But I think those fans just want to see people at the top of their game prove why they are the best. Not sit around messing with Kane and Big Show. Cena can be great, Orton too, and so can Reigns, but WWE really goes out of their way to screw over the mid and undercard. And that is where the resentment is coming from.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Feb 23, 2015 19:09:32 GMT -5
But I don't buy Reigns as that guy who can beat Lesnar. I can buy a smaller guy like Bryan or Ziggler as someone who can stick and move and "out wrestle" Lesnar. Brock is bigger than Reigns, stronger than Reigns, more athletic, and more technically sound. Reigns has no real advantage to make me believe he can beat Brock. Reigns also has a finisher no one's ever kicked out of and was practically undefeated until Raw a few weeks ago So had Bryan until last night.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,580
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Post by Bo Rida on Feb 23, 2015 19:11:07 GMT -5
I don't want to see THIS Roman Reigns against Brock Lesnar. I've seen Brock dominate and destroy, I either want a true under dog story like you could do with Bryan or someone taking the fight to him like Shield Roman Reigns. I don't want Roman the Underdog that cannot wrestle going against the Odds, I mean Brock Lesnar. I had more than enough of that with Cena over the last 10 years. ...they turned Bryan into an Internet troll with his talk about Roman's ability, mental make up and everything else, while Roman is going on about how Bryan would have nothing without him (and was proven right). What am I supposed to like about these guys? Bryan is an egotistical asshole and Roman is an entitled prick. Right now I want Lesnar to walk out at Mania covered in their blood with that smirk he has, and the show go off the air. I don't even think it is entitlement, it is just WWE has created, whether they meant to or not, a divided environment where if your guy is not the champ he is nothing. These crowds weren't pro-Bryan, they weren't pro-Roman, they wanted to move on get ready for Wrestlemania but WWE needed Roman to be in there with someone like Bryan who could up his game so they went back to trying to split the crowd and I don't think it worked, it hurt everything more than helped it. This is a massive issue actually, instead of building both guys up they seem to tear them down through little fault of their own. I don't want to support team ____ like it's f***ing twilight I want to enjoy everything from the top to bottom of the card. Instead I get a feud like Reigns vs Bryan where I end up liking both guys less than than I did when it all started, it's not the first time it's happened with Bryan either as I hated when he said Cena wasn't a real wrestler but at least that was just one line rather than a pattern of behavior. Much the same happened with the Rock vs Cena feud. That's from somebody who likes/liked all four of those wrestlers I mentioned but felt their words were pandering to fans other than me, god knows what it's like for others who aren't fans of those involved.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Feb 23, 2015 19:12:47 GMT -5
Reigns also has a finisher no one's ever kicked out of and was practically undefeated until Raw a few weeks ago So had Bryan until last night. "The Knee Plus? The Spear? What great finishers! I can't wait to kick out of them."
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,511
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Feb 23, 2015 19:14:44 GMT -5
The issue I have with the "Bryan should main event Mania" crowd is that....*he did*. He went over HHH, then won a triple threat where every obstacle in the world was thrown at him. He was the top dog, the WWE champ. Then, Unfortunatly, he got hurt. In the meantime (while Bryan's career was in some legit doubt) they started pushing the next guy in line.
Look, I don't love Reigns, but the backlash he's getting is absurd.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Feb 23, 2015 19:15:57 GMT -5
I think Daniel Bryan fans do come off as a bit entitled. Look, I get it, the guy didn't get a proper reign last year, and that sucks, but he *did* get THE moment at WrestleMania 30. Two in fact, both in beating Triple H who rarely loses, and in winning the triple threat. Do I think Bryan should be one of the top guys on the card? Yes. But after last year, there was no way for Bryan to top it this year, so why shouldn't someone else get a chance. Plus, I remember when this board was on-board with a Reigns push last year. I remember.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 23, 2015 19:18:23 GMT -5
WWE fans have, literally for decades, been aware of a particular narrative regarding this company. It's that they push big, strong, bodybuilder "hosses" at the expense of smaller, less impressive-looking but more talented "vanilla midgets." Bret Hart was, if not the first person this happened to, certainly the guy this narrative first cemented around, and on this forum, people are comparing him to Bryan right now. It's not always fair, but it's happened enough times that they should know about it.
The way they built Reigns from his debut to now was like an amazing case study in how to make fans who are familiar with this narrative hate a guy. He could not have come across more as chosen from on-high despite weak in-ring skills solely because of his look and "impact." Watching the backlash come was like watching a car smash into a wall after driving directly towards that wall. For me, it's the sheer tone-deaf idiocy of the WWE, so completely blind to their fans that they got themselves into this situation, that drives the annoyance.
I think the biggest contributor to fans talking past each other, though, is that both sides are trying to make underdog narratives that can't coexist. The Bryan supporters are focusing on how the WWE and Vince specifically use their positions of power to choose guys that most fans dislike. The Reigns supporters talk about elitist, smark fans who gang up on them and take over PPV tapings. I'm not unbiased, but I don't think the Reigns supporters have much of a point. But that's neither here nor there: I'm just saying that when everybody's trying to argue about how the issue is framed, the whole IDEA is to talk past each other, because you want your way of talking about it to win.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Feb 23, 2015 19:23:00 GMT -5
The issue I have with the "Bryan should main event Mania" crowd is that....*he did*. He went over HHH, then won a triple threat where every obstacle in the world was thrown at him. He was the top dog, the WWE champ. Then, Unfortunatly, he got hurt. In the meantime (while Bryan's career was in some legit doubt) they started pushing the next guy in line. Look, I don't love Reigns, but the backlash he's getting is absurd. Reigns shouldn't be the next guy in line because he isn't ready. Yes, Bryan got hurt, but they should've gone with someone else. All those guys that WWE were pushing during the two titles/brand split era should be the top guys by default until Reigns or someone else is ready to step up. Bryan doesn't need to be champion. He doesn't need to be the guy closing out Mania, but he still deserves a reasonably high-profile match. He shouldn't have to slum it in some type of "get them on the card" match.
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Post by Hit Girl on Feb 23, 2015 19:23:51 GMT -5
There are some here who would defend anything WWE booked.
Last year, there were guys arguing against a Bryan Rumble/Wrestlemania victory. They seem to be the same ones arguing against it this year.
Begs the question, if these people were booking it, when exactly would his time come? Wrestlemania 32? 33? 40?
It's just contrarianism. Daniel Bryan seems to attract it. Arguing against it is pointless. It's better to just sit back and enjoy people tying themselves in knots trying to justify a highly popular wrestler being marginalised in favour of WWE management's forced, shoehorned preferences, and booking clearly designed to put out fires.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Feb 23, 2015 19:27:29 GMT -5
Reigns also has a finisher no one's ever kicked out of and was practically undefeated until Raw a few weeks ago So had Bryan until last night. Was that true or just commentary? Because I could have sworn Orton kicked out of it at least once
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Post by Mayonnaise on Feb 23, 2015 19:29:25 GMT -5
The issue I have with the "Bryan should main event Mania" crowd is that....*he did*. He went over HHH, then won a triple threat where every obstacle in the world was thrown at him. He was the top dog, the WWE champ. Then, Unfortunatly, he got hurt. In the meantime (while Bryan's career was in some legit doubt) they started pushing the next guy in line. Look, I don't love Reigns, but the backlash he's getting is absurd. So because Bryan got the main event last year, he no long is eligible? I don't get this train of thought at all. They started pushing Roman because they liked him, he was over and they needed a face with Bryan out and possibly never returning I get that but why should that stop Bryan fans from cheering for him if he is their favorite and wanting Bryan to main event again after returning? They didn't shove Austin to the side in 99 because he had his moment in 98. Cena had 21, 22, 23 suffered a major injury, then returned to main event 24. They went back to them after massive injures, why not do it with Bryan? He lost his spot to injury and is done? I have never seen this attitude before now but now it is so pervasive and I see it holding no water whatsoever.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
Crow T. Robot
Black Lives Matter
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Feb 23, 2015 19:31:16 GMT -5
It's not entitlement to me, but the reverse. The most obnoxious thing to me is the 'pick and choose rationality' WWE's chosen narrative supporters. And it's not because they support it.
It's the little cheap shot posts they make, the ones specifically crafted to piss the Bryan/whoever/Anti-WWE narrative avatar of the moment is. The ones that will use some false logic, and argue, occasionally slip in some really obnoxious 'woe is me, everyone is ganging up on me because i disagree' posts, and then rile people up. They'll come up with bullshit arguments, then twist people's rational responses around and around until they've blatantly baited people into calling them out. Finally, they hide behind the mods after it's all said and done, letting thread after thread be derailed and locked.
And yet nothing gets done about them or their behavior.
That's my problem with WWE (and FAN) right now.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Feb 23, 2015 19:31:27 GMT -5
So had Bryan until last night. Was that true or just commentary? Because I could have sworn Orton kicked out of it at least once The closest is Orton at Mania 30 but it wasn't an immediate pin. Bryan hit Knee+, Batista speared him (or hit the Batista Bomb, maybe both) then threw Bryan out of the ring before pinning Orton who kicked out at a long 2. I don't really see that as a kick out of the move personally.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,511
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Feb 23, 2015 19:32:30 GMT -5
I'm not saying Bryan shouldn't main event, or be in the title picture. But until around November or so, nobody was sure he was coming back at all. The company went ahead with their plan, and although Bryan main eventing 'Mania wouldn't be absurd or anything, it isn't happening. To act like this is the worst travesty ever or that his career as a serious main event/title scene player is finished comes off as silly to me.
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