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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 23, 2015 21:18:36 GMT -5
I have to agree that I have issues with people using the argument "Bryan had his main event last year".
If a guy is supposedly the company's big main eventer, then, well...main eventing more than one Wrestlemania is pretty typical, no? Hogan main evented 1-8 (arguably 9, too, I guess), Michaels mained 3 out of 4, Bret had a couple, Austin, Rock, and Triple H had their share, Cena and Orton have had many, etc.
If people earnestly want Bryan to be the new top dog, then why wouldn't they want him to top the card at the biggest show of the year again, especially given the real-life drama he's gone through to give him a built-in storyline?
I do think the notion that most of the guys people mention in here have bee "buried" is silly and overstated ("buried" means a hell of a lot worse than just losing featured matches or not main eventing), but I get the annoyance many have with the idea that they're being told "So-and-so will never be a consistent main eventer."
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Feb 23, 2015 21:38:16 GMT -5
For me, it's a combination of 1 and 2. Right now though, the ongoing Bryan situation takes a backseat to them wanting to Megapush Roman when it feels like it's not the right time to.
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Post by randomlurker on Feb 23, 2015 21:48:07 GMT -5
Here's a new one: I can't even enjoy Daniel Bryan segments & matches if he's just out there to put Reigns over.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Feb 23, 2015 22:41:21 GMT -5
Here's a new one: I can't even enjoy Daniel Bryan segments & matches if he's just out there to put Reigns over. Yeah. Right now they're basically trying to say we should cheer Reigns because our hero Daniel Bryan said so.
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Big Poppa Pumpkin
Dennis Stamp
I'll be in the back polishing............ my belt.
Posts: 4,987
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Post by Big Poppa Pumpkin on Feb 23, 2015 23:14:31 GMT -5
I think my problem with WWE at the moment can be summed up by the fact that the biggest attraction on the Wrestlemania card right now is a purported 'dream match' in which the two participants have a combined age of 100.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 24, 2015 0:45:01 GMT -5
Here's a new one: I can't even enjoy Daniel Bryan segments & matches if he's just out there to put Reigns over. Yeah. Right now they're basically trying to say we should cheer Reigns because our hero Daniel Bryan said so. So that must mean that Roman Reigns is Daniel Bryan's... ...LITTLE BUDDY???!!!(Weird slant on it, though... Usually, it's Cena talking up Ryder/Bryan etc. to try and get Cena cheered. Here it's Bryan talking up Reigns to get Reigns cheered)
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,038
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Feb 24, 2015 1:36:57 GMT -5
The thing that's starting to disturb me is that people are now attributing all decent reactions Reigns gets to "orgasming, screeching, women who have no self respect" With zero care that, you know, women are on this board and don't need some jackass to talk down to female fans of a wrestler and have their opinions dismissed in such a casually sexist way.
Then again, I'm shocked there are any female posters on this board after all the shit that's been said about women.
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Dang!
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,277
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Post by Dang! on Feb 24, 2015 1:45:19 GMT -5
It's predictable and formulaic as shit. They are trying SO hard to get Succotash over. Even TNA had the dignity to abandon Crimson's push. Bryan's promo was so cringeworthy and the whole Rumble match was like a steaming giant elephant turd only that it stank worse.
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ssdrivin
ALF
Claims to be squishy, has yet to be proven.
Posts: 1,042
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Post by ssdrivin on Feb 24, 2015 1:52:47 GMT -5
For me, it's that nothing matters. It makes for such horrible TV. Oh, Ziggler won at Survivor Series and got rid of the Authority? LOL, we'll bring them back and as such make the past two months of our TV completely f***ing pointless. Ziggler, Daniel Bryan, and Dean Ambrose are all over with the fans? LOL, let's have them look like chumps by jobbing them out, squandering their heat, and making them look like complete morons. The fresh characters are really tearing it up in the ring? LOL, I hope you like main events that feature Sting, Triple H, Kane, Big Show, and Randy Orton. This. Though not necessarily just because it means my favourites get yoyo'd, but because it makes f***-all sense in terms of continuity. I want realism. I want guy x, y and z being so damn good that they're in the main event, proving why they're there, whether heel or face. I want the midcarders aspiring to become that top guy, with a clear path there if they can be as good as it takes. I want a proper gradient of talent, not just 2 untouchable guys at the top and a roster of dozens who appear to be worth nothing. I want characters who care about what happens, not a Cena who acts like a goddamn emotionally-Teflon'd amnesiac after every loss even if he'd just been screaming about how his career means nothing if he loses. I want characters who feel like they actually have a reason to be there, and a legitimate beef where they're supposed to have one - in fairness, I enjoy Orton's efforts at this, but why only him? I want guys who, when they say they need to step it up to beat the big man, they go out of their way to show that they're spending every waking minute to hone their skill and grow that fire within themselves, not just show up like nothing's happened for a month but suddenly they're somehow ready. I want consistency and logic. I want people with characters I can identify and identify with, not random pointless filler. I want characters to be explained so I can decide what I think of them - why has Bray Wyatt been treading water? Who is he? What's his back-story? Why does he keep picking on guys like it matters somehow? I want commentators who can pull off JR-like levels of making things matter. I want the Divas to be treated like wrestlers, not pointless eye candy features who get into high school bitch-fights over who's the most/least crazy or who's the fattest/thinnest. They're as much wrestlers as the men are, why aren't they treated that way on the main roster? Why can't they be pretty and smart and powerful, not just pretty, or worse, pretty, dumb and weak? I have my favourites, I have my guys I want to see succeed, I know not everybody can be "the man", but I just want a show which allows me to lose myself in it. I want to suspend my disbelief, I want to genuinely believe that when guy x wins big, it MEANS SOMETHING. That it's not going to be retcon'd next week. I don't like seeing the reset button hit right before every episode. Don't make me hate guys because you're forcing a broken character or because they suck, make me hate them because they're evil and I want to see them get their comeuppance - and then, importantly, LET ME SEE THAT COMEUPPANCE. I think that about covers it.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Feb 24, 2015 8:46:59 GMT -5
Could Bryan be a mega star? Maybe. He definitely has all tasks that make a successfu.Main event wrestler.
Is Reigns ready? Maybe. WWE has been at this a long time. They have their own standards for when a guy is ready for the titan treatment. My own opinion is he is as polished on screen as Hogan or Rock were right before their respective push began. I have a long memory for pro wrestling. Neither of the two I mentioned were great when their push started. But WWE saw what they could be. Same with Cena. Reigns has movie star looks and is easy to pass along to Live with Kelly and Michael, Conan O'Brien etc. Whereas Bryan while unique looking, is more a star inside a wrestling arena or at an event for wrestling fans. Vince, right or wrong is looking for the most crossover appeal. Reigns in my opinion and likely WWE's opinion has more of that than Bryan. I'd rather watch Bryan but I'm a wrestling fan and I know who he is. Reigns could go on a show and grab attention from women, teenaged girls those are harder to get with the flying goat.
If this was sport, Bryan would be champion over Reigns but it isn't sport. It's entertainment. WWE sells stars that can transcend wrestling.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2015 8:50:57 GMT -5
Other: De-emphasizing Dean Ambrose for god knows what reason. When Reigns was out and they temporarily featured Ambrose instead, they should have stuck with it and comtinued featuring Ambrose who has been the only person in the last 10 years other than CM Punk to rival Daniel Bryan in overness (but only until they moved him to the heat killing Bray Wyatt).
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Post by Milkman Norm on Feb 24, 2015 9:50:29 GMT -5
The malaise is what has turned me off the product. I've said it before, WWE is now presenting this thing that isn't wrestling. It isn't even sports entertainment. It's a television show that is supported by NBC Universal where filling airtime is the only thing that matters. Even viewership hardly matters because the money was in the USA deal and WWE has a contract. They want Reigns to be the guy because he looks like a guy who you could plaster on game covers and ppv posters and get him guest spots on sitcoms to help raise the profile of the company. As said before nothing matters.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Feb 24, 2015 9:53:56 GMT -5
I wouldn't say de-emphasizing Ambrose. There just isn't enough time to showcase everyone at once. Rollins is and has been hot. Bryan is still in the mix. Reigns the topic of discussion of course. Bray going into to face Taker needs screen time. Oh and umm...somedude named Sting needs to be sold. If in eight months nothing has been done with Dean Ambrose, then I would worry
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,304
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Post by The Ichi on Feb 24, 2015 10:11:15 GMT -5
There are some here who would defend anything WWE booked. Last year, there were guys arguing against a Bryan Rumble/Wrestlemania victory. They seem to be the same ones arguing against it this year. Begs the question, if these people were booking it, when exactly would his time come? Wrestlemania 32? 33? 40? It's just contrarianism. Daniel Bryan seems to attract it. Arguing against it is pointless. It's better to just sit back and enjoy people tying themselves in knots trying to justify a highly popular wrestler being marginalised in favour of WWE management's forced, shoehorned preferences, and booking clearly designed to put out fires. Or, in my case, the more that Bryan fans, just like when they were Punk fans in the past, just like when they were Benoit fans in the late 90s and early 2000s, the more self-righteous and snobbish they get, the more I want to see Vince spite the hell out of them and crush their hopes and dreams. Vince and Steph want fans hating fans? Fine, I can play that game. That seems to be what the internet is for anyway. I think i'd rather be "self-righteous and snobbish" than be that guy on a message board pointing and laughing at people for not getting what they want on a television show, but to each their own.
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Post by Hit Girl on Feb 24, 2015 11:23:55 GMT -5
There are some here who would defend anything WWE booked. Last year, there were guys arguing against a Bryan Rumble/Wrestlemania victory. They seem to be the same ones arguing against it this year. Begs the question, if these people were booking it, when exactly would his time come? Wrestlemania 32? 33? 40? It's just contrarianism. Daniel Bryan seems to attract it. Arguing against it is pointless. It's better to just sit back and enjoy people tying themselves in knots trying to justify a highly popular wrestler being marginalised in favour of WWE management's forced, shoehorned preferences, and booking clearly designed to put out fires. Or, in my case, the more that Bryan fans, just like when they were Punk fans in the past, just like when they were Benoit fans in the late 90s and early 2000s, the more self-righteous and snobbish they get, the more I want to see Vince spite the hell out of them and crush their hopes and dreams. Vince and Steph want fans hating fans? Fine, I can play that game. That seems to be what the internet is for anyway. I have no idea what you are talking about.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,580
Member is Online
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Post by Bo Rida on Feb 24, 2015 11:33:22 GMT -5
Character arcs over the past year or so:
Orton – After months of bickering with the rest of The Authority the unstable lunatic was seriously injured by his allies, the unstable lunatic that could snap at any moment decides he's fine with that.
Cesaro – Joins tag-team. Gets more popular. Wins the Andre trophy. Gets a new manager to head towards even greater things. Loses repeatedly. Unceremoniously ditches Heyman. Joins tag-team.
Ziggler and Ryback – Sick of being overlooked. Decided it was time they stood up for what was right and changed things. Changed things. Things went back to normal. Shrugged. Sick of being overlooked.
Ambrose – Fights The Authority but gets betrayed by his “brother”, spends months getting massive reactions while seeking revenge, fails to get revenge. Becomes a bumbling buffoon and forgets about his former enemies.
The Wyatt Family – Split-up their cult for vague reasons, obviously this is a huge life altering event that must have a profound effect on the former members. Bray and Luke are unaffected and carry on as normal. Rowan is largely unaffected too but free from brainwashing he remembers that he likes rubix cubes and wine.
Kane – Wears a mask. Takes mask off. Puts mask on again. Takes mask off again. Is exactly the same throughout.
Big Show – f*** knows, it involved a lot of crying though.
Paige- Anti-diva. Insecure rookie that barely hits any offence. Crazy faux-lesbian heel. Face for some reason.
Bellas – Evil heels. Turn face because Brie is now married. Nikki turns heel out of womb based grievances. Brie fights her sister for a while then just gives up and decides to be evil again.
Xavier Woods – 90s guy. Acts like a jerk in tag-team with Truth. Attempts to form a new nation. Forms New Day instead.
I won't mention Bryan or Reigns on the off-chance they're going somewhere interesting and logical with them.
If it was any other TV show I just wouldn't put up with characters that are written like that.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Feb 24, 2015 12:01:18 GMT -5
For me, I'm bothered by the infighting among fans more than I am any malaise from WWE at this point.
The lack of "realism" (or whatever the heck that means in pro wrestling), the stop/start pushes, Divas acting catty, Vince booking Mary Sues, those don't bother me anywhere as much as the bitterness from so many fans, and nearly every subject turning into some heated debate on the nature of life and human interaction. I'm genuinely curious, where's the entertainment value in that?
I'm not even trying to defend the product, if people think it's boring or crappy then they don't have to force themselves to enjoy it. But if TNA fans can roll with the punches and laugh at their ineptitude, why can't the WWE Universe? They're just as frustrating and their storylines and production values are far worse, but people seem to have fun with them.
You'll go into Impact threads, and people are on similar pages. And I guess you could make the argument it's so bad people are more likely to be in agreement over it, but once in a while there'll be a well-done moment and fans will compliment it, then go back to mocking the bad stuff. In RAW threads or WWE Current topics, that'll usually spark some sort of blaze.
I have no issues discussing bad booking decisions regarding who TNA needs to push, but in WWE conversations it feels as if fans are far, far more sensitive about it. And I don't think the theory that WWE has the potential to be better is enough to excuse some of the unnecessary flaming and pointless arguments we've got reports about over the past couple months. Events meaning something or Cena "acting more human" isn't worth this.
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ssdrivin
ALF
Claims to be squishy, has yet to be proven.
Posts: 1,042
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Post by ssdrivin on Feb 24, 2015 12:52:15 GMT -5
I have no issues discussing bad booking decisions regarding who TNA needs to push, but in WWE conversations it feels as if fans are far, far more sensitive about it. And I don't think the theory that WWE has the potential to be better is enough to excuse some of the unnecessary flaming and pointless arguments we've got reports about over the past couple months. I'm not defending getting super crazy over a TV show, but it could be because WWE has a much richer, longer-lived history. Many of us have watched for years, decades even, often beginning as kids/teenagers, we've grown up with it and it's frustrating to know what they can do when they try, but that they aren't trying. It's disappointing that the thing we've enjoyed for so long has become so willfully mediocre. All of those amazing moments we remember watching, those characters we got so invested in, something so different to be interested in, even if people told us it was stupid and fake. Or it could be that the internet, like real life, is full of dicks. Also WWE has a larger audience, and attracts just as high/low a percentage of dicks as fans of other promotions, but there's more people and thus more dicks, causing the dickishness to appear larger and louder. Mere theories, of course, I don't have the real answer, I'm just speculating.
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stealthamo
King Koopa
Something stupid
#AJAll
Posts: 11,247
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Post by stealthamo on Feb 24, 2015 13:08:14 GMT -5
I can't speak for the past month, but what got me to stop watching was a mix of options 1 and 2. I don't mind Reigns, but his push to Mania seems way too forced. They could've built him up over the next year to the main event, since we don't have a good idea of who Reigns really is. He was this big quiet badass, but then he began transitioning into Cena 2.0 (though it sounds like they're reverting back to the badass). To me, there really wasn't anything to tell us who Reigns is. Ambrose is the batshit crazy guy, and Rollins is the sellout. Hell, even for Erick Rowan they told us he was a savant and vintner. I don't remember anything like that with Reigns.
The second option also rings true, though it's not just a Bryan problem. Guys like Ambrose and Ziggler are very over with the crowds, and it seems like people would've been fine with them winning the Rumble (maybe not as much as Bryan, but they still would've been fine). But instead of going with the guys the fans like, WWE go with the guy they want, regardless of whether the fans like it or not.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Feb 24, 2015 13:13:25 GMT -5
I have no issues discussing bad booking decisions regarding who TNA needs to push, but in WWE conversations it feels as if fans are far, far more sensitive about it. And I don't think the theory that WWE has the potential to be better is enough to excuse some of the unnecessary flaming and pointless arguments we've got reports about over the past couple months. I'm not defending getting super crazy over a TV show, but it could be because WWE has a much richer, longer-lived history. Many of us have watched for years, decades even, often beginning as kids/teenagers, we've grown up with it and it's frustrating to know what they can do when they try, but that they aren't trying. It's disappointing that the thing we've enjoyed for so long has become so willfully mediocre. All of those amazing moments we remember watching, those characters we got so invested in, something so different to be interested in, even if people told us it was stupid and fake. Or it could be that the internet, like real life, is full of dicks. Also WWE has a larger audience, and attracts just as high/low a percentage of dicks as fans of other promotions, but there's more people and thus more dicks, causing the dickishness to appear larger and louder. Mere theories, of course, I don't have the real answer, I'm just speculating. My answer is that I just don't worry about wrestling being "believable". I've been a wrestling fan since I was seven years old, but it's hard for me to get that frustrated about it because I've never considered it being capable of great art. I always scratch my head whenever shows like Game Of Thrones or Breaking Bad are mentioned in the context of wrestling storylines, because the difference with those shows is that: A) they're driven much more by the vision of their creators than they are fan reactions B) they're not presented as sporting events, hence why they can devote a lot more airtime to proper character development as opposed to popping crowds. I admit it might be just my personal bias, because I don't have a problem with Superman characters the way a lot of other fans do (provided they're talented enough, like a Cena or even a Goldberg back in the day). All I know is that it is NO fun to discuss WWE right now.
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