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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 10, 2017 12:55:34 GMT -5
There's nothing in Flash that makes him inherently white. While I do think they should have a kid there that's more physically imposing, that could be any race.
Unrelated, but I do wish we got a scene with Shocker's 'mattress' suit.
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the2ndevil
Grimlock
Super Seducer Survivor
Where Is Your Santa, Now?
Posts: 13,629
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Post by the2ndevil on Jul 10, 2017 14:13:59 GMT -5
There's nothing in Flash that makes him inherently white. This is literally the case every time this "issue" has come up. It was meaningless when it happened to Michael Clarke Duncan in Daredevil. It was meaningless when it happened to Jamie Foxx in Amazing Spider-Man 2, it was meaningless when it happened to Michael B. Jordan in Fantastic Four, it is meaningless now, and it is meaningless every other time it has happened in between. It's beyond stupid, and only makes those complaining look bad, because it seems they only care about comic "accuracy" when it comes to skin color. If people really cared about comic "accuracy", where's all the complaints about how Vulture looked nothing like how he is in the comics -- in either civilian or costume. It's real curious, isn't it?
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Post by Raskovnik on Jul 10, 2017 14:19:13 GMT -5
There's nothing in Flash that makes him inherently white. This is literally the case every time this "issue" has come up. It was meaningless when it happened to Michael Clarke Duncan in Daredevil. It was meaningless when it happened to Jamie Foxx in Amazing Spider-Man 2, it was meaningless when it happened to Michael B. Jordan in Fantastic Four, it is meaningless now, and it is meaningless every other time it has happened in between. It's beyond stupid, and only makes those complaining look bad, because it seems they only care about comic "accuracy" when it comes to skin color. If people really cared about comic "accuracy", where's all the complaints about how Vulture looked nothing like how he is in the comics -- in either civilian or costume. It's real curious, isn't it? f***ing amen, thank you. There's also the "I'm all for diversity BUT ____" (as long as it "makes sense" is the usual one, like not being white on the silver screen is something you have to justify.) I'm a diehard comic fan and I hate any changes they make, but I'm not going to talk about any of the actual big changes like Vulture no longer being a goofy old bald dude in a silly costume with a completely different backstory.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Jul 10, 2017 15:03:35 GMT -5
I don't mind Tony Revolori as Flash Thompson because it showcases a different aspect of how Peter Parker can be bullied.
We've already seen Peter physically threatened by Flash in one movie.
And we've seen Peter also out-athlete Flash in another movie.
Yes, we know that Peter could cave Flash's face in if he wanted to, and could jump higher, run faster, and lift more than Flash ever could. But how does Peter respond to a version of Flash whose bullying is primarily verbal? With great power comes great responsibility. If Peter waylaid Flash, then he would become the bully, because he's the better and stronger fighter. If he defeats Flash in some kind of athletic contest, then Peter again becomes the bully because he has more physical skill and prowess than the regular human guy does.
In 2017, what can Peter do about being called a penis? True, Peter could have shown up to the party in costume. He was so close to humbling Flash by having Spider-Man appear. But as soon as he heard the explosion in the nearby neighbourhood, he had to go investigate it. His social comeuppance of Flash was to be denied. Again, great power, great responsibility, which means sometimes as much as you might want to give someone their comeuppance, especially when you have the physical means to do so, you can't, because you're judgment will be in error, since someone with that kind of power (physical, symbolic, etc.) has more expectations, of being the bigger and better person and walking away, thrust upon them.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jul 10, 2017 15:37:42 GMT -5
Tobey and Andrew look so old in those thumbnails. I enjoyed them both, but it's remarkable how close Holland looks to how high school Pete is drawn.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,879
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Post by Dub H on Jul 10, 2017 18:55:09 GMT -5
Just saw it.Really enjoyed.Vulture was a really good villain.Miles ahead from anything from the comics.
And even if they changed her trademark red hair.Love the twist with MJ for two reason:
I was actually surprised she was MJ at the end.
And now she isn't just a boring character which only features are pretty and a long red hair
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the2ndevil
Grimlock
Super Seducer Survivor
Where Is Your Santa, Now?
Posts: 13,629
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Post by the2ndevil on Jul 10, 2017 19:08:44 GMT -5
I don't mind Tony Revolori as Flash Thompson because it showcases a different aspect of how Peter Parker can be bullied. We've already seen Peter physically threatened by Flash in one movie. And we've seen Peter also out-athlete Flash in another movie. Yes, we know that Peter could cave Flash's face in if he wanted to, and could jump higher, run faster, and lift more than Flash ever could. But how does Peter respond to a version of Flash whose bullying is primarily verbal? With great power comes great responsibility. If Peter waylaid Flash, then he would become the bully, because he's the better and stronger fighter. If he defeats Flash in some kind of athletic contest, then Peter again becomes the bully because he has more physical skill and prowess than the regular human guy does. In 2017, what can Peter do about being called a penis? True, Peter could have shown up to the party in costume. He was so close to humbling Flash by having Spider-Man appear. But as soon as he heard the explosion in the nearby neighbourhood, he had to go investigate it. His social comeuppance of Flash was to be denied. Again, great power, great responsibility, which means sometimes as much as you might want to give someone their comeuppance, especially when you have the physical means to do so, you can't, because you're judgment will be in error, since someone with that kind of power (physical, symbolic, etc.) has more expectations, of being the bigger and better person and walking away, thrust upon them. I want to take this post to a really expensive steak dinner at a super fancy restaurant. It deserves it.
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Goldenbane
Hank Scorpio
THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
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Post by Goldenbane on Jul 10, 2017 19:19:47 GMT -5
This is literally the case every time this "issue" has come up. It was meaningless when it happened to Michael Clarke Duncan in Daredevil. It was meaningless when it happened to Jamie Foxx in Amazing Spider-Man 2, it was meaningless when it happened to Michael B. Jordan in Fantastic Four, it is meaningless now, and it is meaningless every other time it has happened in between. It's beyond stupid, and only makes those complaining look bad, because it seems they only care about comic "accuracy" when it comes to skin color. If people really cared about comic "accuracy", where's all the complaints about how Vulture looked nothing like how he is in the comics -- in either civilian or costume. It's real curious, isn't it? f***ing amen, thank you. There's also the "I'm all for diversity BUT ____" (as long as it "makes sense" is the usual one, like not being white on the silver screen is something you have to justify.) I'm a diehard comic fan and I hate any changes they make, but I'm not going to talk about any of the actual big changes like Vulture no longer being a goofy old bald dude in a silly costume with a completely different backstory. *Sigh* I've said this before, and I will say it again and again and again until it finally gets through. My problem with the Human Torch being black wasn't because he was black...but his SISTER was still white and they made up some drippy pointless dumbass "she was adopted" storyline." You want diversity, right? Then HALF the Fantastic Four being black would have been a great step in the right direction, but instead it was as if the movie producers pussed out...or maybe themselves are just raging racists: "WHAT? ? Have a Fantastic Four movie without that hot white blond chick? NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" If you truly want diversity, then go all the way with it, damn it! Ugh, this pisses me off every time it comes up.
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Post by Raskovnik on Jul 10, 2017 22:08:03 GMT -5
f***ing amen, thank you. There's also the "I'm all for diversity BUT ____" (as long as it "makes sense" is the usual one, like not being white on the silver screen is something you have to justify.) I'm a diehard comic fan and I hate any changes they make, but I'm not going to talk about any of the actual big changes like Vulture no longer being a goofy old bald dude in a silly costume with a completely different backstory. *Sigh* I've said this before, and I will say it again and again and again until it finally gets through. My problem with the Human Torch being black wasn't because he was black...but his SISTER was still white and they made up some drippy pointless dumbass "she was adopted" storyline." You want diversity, right? Then HALF the Fantastic Four being black would have been a great step in the right direction, but instead it was as if the movie producers pussed out...or maybe themselves are just raging racists: "WHAT? ? Have a Fantastic Four movie without that hot white blond chick? NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" If you truly want diversity, then go all the way with it, damn it! Ugh, this pisses me off every time it comes up. I kind of agree with what part of what you're saying but the rest of me isn't on the same page. For starters, I was adopted. Most of my family is Japanese so I stick out at the family functions as the six and a half foot non-Japanese guy. That's just how some families look. So I feel a certain degree of kinship for that idea. Though I do agree that they most certainly felt an incentive to keep the pretty blonde girl as they feel like that's what's going to sell the best. Same reason UFC will get their full marketing force behind Paige VanZant or Sage Northcutt regardless of their dubious credentials. It's seen as the most "marketable." Though I really do think that if they were to give it a try they'd be surprised by how well the general population responds to, to use your idea as an example, black actors in the Storm family role. I'm waiting for them to try that. Not literally that exact example, though it could be cool, but I mean that idea in general. It's just a touchy subject for me because I have these great conversations with my friends and family about how they like that they're starting to feel more represented in media, and responded really well to this movie, but then you see people dumping all over it because they think not having everyone be all white, even in a setting like a public school in NYC in the year 2017, doesn't "make sense" or they feel it begs some comparison that's intended as an insult such as the BK Kids Club remark. Many of them hide behind the veil of ostensible comic book purist who somehow rarely, if ever, brings up the actual drastic ways in which the movie differs from the source material, such as the aforementioned Vulture example. What are people supposed to take away from that? Regardless of how cynical some people think the intentions are, I think diversity and more people being represented in media can only be ultimately a good thing. I don't care if some stranger only gives me $500 because they're trying to make themselves feel better. I'm getting paid out! I think that there's a lot of catching up to do and no real "proper" way to do it, despite some people having arbitrary notions about it when it does and when it does not feel "forced", to use the most common word associated with arguments against diversity of any kind. Anything is better than nothing. I suppose if they did something like remake a historical drama such as The Tudors with an all-Jamaican cast or something that would be goofy, but I don't think we're seeing that.
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Post by Stu on Jul 10, 2017 22:13:21 GMT -5
There's nothing in Flash that makes him inherently white. This is literally the case every time this "issue" has come up. It was meaningless when it happened to Michael Clarke Duncan in Daredevil. It was meaningless when it happened to Jamie Foxx in Amazing Spider-Man 2, it was meaningless when it happened to Michael B. Jordan in Fantastic Four, it is meaningless now, and it is meaningless every other time it has happened in between. It's beyond stupid, and only makes those complaining look bad, because it seems they only care about comic "accuracy" when it comes to skin color. If people really cared about comic "accuracy", where's all the complaints about how Vulture looked nothing like how he is in the comics -- in either civilian or costume. It's real curious, isn't it? FWIW, comic accuracy is why I don't like the X-Men films.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 22:23:16 GMT -5
Flash not being white was perfectly fine with me. I just didn't want him to be a nerd.
I get that he was still a bully, but I just didn't like it.
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Post by Duke Cameron on Jul 10, 2017 23:32:28 GMT -5
There's nothing in Flash that makes him inherently white. This is literally the case every time this "issue" has come up. It was meaningless when it happened to Michael Clarke Duncan in Daredevil. It was meaningless when it happened to Jamie Foxx in Amazing Spider-Man 2, it was meaningless when it happened to Michael B. Jordan in Fantastic Four, it is meaningless now, and it is meaningless every other time it has happened in between. It's beyond stupid, and only makes those complaining look bad, because it seems they only care about comic "accuracy" when it comes to skin color. If people really cared about comic "accuracy", where's all the complaints about how Vulture looked nothing like how he is in the comics -- in either civilian or costume. It's real curious, isn't it? Actually, I do have a problem that Vulture didn't match his traditional comic book look.
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Post by Starshine on Jul 11, 2017 0:29:01 GMT -5
I really enjoyed it. More than either the Toney, Garfield movies.
I don't care for Vulture at all. But they really made him both a sympathetic and complex in a way that enhanced both his character, but his relationship with Peter.
I also appreciated the threat being more on a local scale than global, as has been the trend of this series. Not every movie has to deal with a doomsday scenario.
I can't wait to see where this series goes forward. They did a lot of interesting things that point to a bright sequel.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2017 3:07:41 GMT -5
You know what I want in a Spider-Man movie?
I want a Peter that's a little know it all and shitty. Modern nerd culture is infested with folks who think their kind of knowledge is the only kind that matters. I want a Spider-Man movie with MJ as a co-lead. I want Peter blowing this seemingly ditzy, young model girl off while he hunts down a villain through SCIENCE and superheroics while MJ tracks down the same villain through social intelligence, an ability to relate to people and knowledge of the city. And in the end Peter falls for her because he learns to respect that making your way in the world and being social isn't just some easy thing, but it's something people actively have to work on. It isn't just some gift from the heavens. Popularity and friendship doesn't just fall on you the way some of the biggest Spidey fans assume it does.
But that's me. I think THAT'S a useful movie in 2017.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jul 11, 2017 4:54:01 GMT -5
I just wish they would've had the balls to actually name the character Mary Jane instead of doing this balls-less "well she's not Mary Jane but oh wait she is" thing that was probably done to placate racists who'd flip their lid. in the end I think it was a decision that made nobody happy. I also felt Donald Glover was completely wasted on such a tiny role.
really fun movie, otherwise.
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Heartbreaker
King Koopa
Is actually Bindi Irwin
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Post by Heartbreaker on Jul 11, 2017 8:36:10 GMT -5
I was gonna pass on this, but my friends invited me to come along. Glad I went because it was a good movie. Fun and had some very tense and emotional moments. {Spoiler}{Spoiler} Tom Holland is the perfect Peter Parker and Spider-Man. He actually looks like a teenager (Hollywood really needs to stop casting 30-year olds to play teens) and Spidey acts like a real one too. He's a little awkward, stubborn, nerdy. Also quite adorkable too. He also acts the way a teenager would if they had powers. What bugged me about the other movies is that Spidey would just shoot out webs then suddenly become New York's big hero. Here, he had to learn how to properly use the suit, it totally backfired on him when he "unlocked" the advanced features. On the topic of realistic teenagers, I liked what they did with Flash Thompson. Jock assholes who beat up nerds is such an outdated trope. Verbal bullying happens waaaaay more than physical. Michael Keaten was fantastic as The Vulture too. The MCU needs more villains like him who have depth and their goals are understandable. Toomes did all this stuff because the rich (Stark) drove him, the working class out of business and he had a family to support. Reminded me of Walter White but instead of being a drug lord, he supplied advanced weapons. The whole scene where Peter discovers he is Liz's daddy followed by the scene in the car was f***ing tense. I'm so happy they didn't kill him off because that would have been too predictable. Looks like the next villain is going to be Scorpion. I think Michael Mando is an amazing actor and has the potential to be a big star so this excites me. I did not expect a f***ing Shockmaster reference in a Hollywood movie.
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Post by SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts on Jul 11, 2017 9:00:59 GMT -5
No hate for Zero from Grand Budapest Hotel. I will say he does stand out compared to the other characters who are not the usual Peter Parker supporting cast, it's Ned instead of Harry and Liz instead of Gwen or Mary Jane. {Spoiler}Then MJ is Michelle. What's that about? I don't know.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Jul 11, 2017 9:17:04 GMT -5
No hate for Zero from Grand Budapest Hotel. I will say he does stand out compared to the other characters who are not the usual Peter Parker supporting cast, it's Ned instead of Harry and Liz instead of Gwen or Mary Jane. {Spoiler}Then MJ is Michelle. What's that about? I don't know. {Spoiler}
The Michelle/MJ thing is just masterful trolling by them. Michelle isn't Mary Jane. We have yet to meet Mary Jane. Hell, neither Mary Jane or Gwen Stacy were introduced until after Peter was out of high school in the comics I believe. Same with Harry.
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the2ndevil
Grimlock
Super Seducer Survivor
Where Is Your Santa, Now?
Posts: 13,629
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Post by the2ndevil on Jul 11, 2017 9:53:56 GMT -5
I had a thought about something. (Scary, I know) {Spoiler}Tony sold Stark Tower. What are the odds the buyer was Oscorp?
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ronin705
Dennis Stamp
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Post by ronin705 on Jul 11, 2017 13:44:41 GMT -5
I'd like to bring up a point about Flash that Jeremy Jahns made about because I think it's a good one and something I like about this incarnation: "Flash Thompson was always the jock bully. That was the high school cliche I always knew. Jock Bullies. Nerds. The jocks pick on the nerds. Now I've been out of high school for a while so maybe it's changed but I like the fact that Flash Thompson, the bully, is actually apart of Peter Parker's social group. You can't run from someone like that. He's a dick who's apart of your social circle." Basically, he's Reggie to Peter's Archie
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