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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 22:36:07 GMT -5
thats what she signed up for, blame the booker if youre against it, not dickinson Uh no. They all share in the blame.
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Post by froggyfrog on Mar 4, 2015 22:46:20 GMT -5
thats what she signed up for, blame the booker if youre against it, not dickinson Uh no. They all share in the blame. including kimber then.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 22:54:54 GMT -5
I'm very against anyone being taken advantage of in the ring. That being said, the people proclaiming this isn't about gender are kidding themselves. The ONLY reason this is getting so much play is because it's male on female violence. If it had been Pinkie taking the chairshot and powerbomb with Kimber coming in the ring after to "check" on him no one would have given nearly as much of a damn.
That finish was stupidly dangerous but the real sickening thing here is that, no matter how hard Kimber Lee works to show she's just as tough as any man she gets in the ring with, the public at large will continue to coddle her and scream for vengeance when she's on the receiving end of violence. Even when she's JUST as violent with her male counterparts (which, if most of the people whining about this video had watched the rest of her matches, they would have seen).
You can hate the hardcore wrestling. You SHOULD hate when someone's being taken advantage of in the ring. You hating this just because it's the big strong guy beating up on the poor widdle girl is just pure f***ing sickening sexism.
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Capt Lunatic
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Post by Capt Lunatic on Mar 4, 2015 23:01:19 GMT -5
Was this for real? Like he went off script and was just assaulting her with an arm up chair shot and Border Toss?
Where were the Police? Where was Sting?!
Seriously...looks like a thousand other matches I've seen.
Also when is Ronda Rousey gonna fight a dude?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 23:05:05 GMT -5
A) If this was two dudes, it would absolutely be every bit as stupid. Take gender out of it, and this is like Brock Lesnar using the force he'd use for Mark Henry on a child. Careless, dangerous, and stupid.
B) This is why nobody respects wrestling.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Mar 4, 2015 23:06:21 GMT -5
I'm very against anyone being taken advantage of in the ring. That being said, the people proclaiming this isn't about gender are kidding themselves. The ONLY reason this is getting so much play is because it's male on female violence. If it had been Pinkie taking the chairshot and powerbomb with Kimber coming in the ring after to "check" on him no one would have given nearly as much of a damn. That finish was stupidly dangerous but the real sickening thing here is that, no matter how hard Kimber Lee works to show she's just as tough as any man she gets in the ring with, the public at large will continue to coddle her and scream for vengeance when she's on the receiving end of violence. Even when she's JUST as violent with her male counterparts (which, if most of the people whining about this video had watched the rest of her matches, they would have seen). You can hate the hardcore wrestling. You SHOULD hate when someone's being taken advantage of in the ring. You hating this just because it's the big strong guy beating up on the poor widdle girl is just pure f***ing sickening sexism. I can't speak for anybody else but I care anytime a wrestler, male or female, damn near gets paralyzed because some jack-off couldn't be bothered to actually try and protect them. That's scummy as f*** no matter how you look at it. As someone else mentioned, people went nuts when Hernandez almost killed Doug Williams. The gender plays a part, definetly, but let's not sit here and pretend like this was some perfectly safe spot that wouldn't have gotten a second look if it was done to a male. It's a much smaller performer being taken advantage by a jackass. If this was Rockstar Spud and Tyrus, people would still be mad.
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Post by lildude8218 on Mar 4, 2015 23:08:00 GMT -5
can't we just get beyond wrestling?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 23:12:48 GMT -5
I'm very against anyone being taken advantage of in the ring. That being said, the people proclaiming this isn't about gender are kidding themselves. The ONLY reason this is getting so much play is because it's male on female violence. If it had been Pinkie taking the chairshot and powerbomb with Kimber coming in the ring after to "check" on him no one would have given nearly as much of a damn. That finish was stupidly dangerous but the real sickening thing here is that, no matter how hard Kimber Lee works to show she's just as tough as any man she gets in the ring with, the public at large will continue to coddle her and scream for vengeance when she's on the receiving end of violence. Even when she's JUST as violent with her male counterparts (which, if most of the people whining about this video had watched the rest of her matches, they would have seen). You can hate the hardcore wrestling. You SHOULD hate when someone's being taken advantage of in the ring. You hating this just because it's the big strong guy beating up on the poor widdle girl is just pure f***ing sickening sexism. I can't speak for anybody else but I care anytime a wrestler, male or female, damn near gets paralyzed because some jack-off couldn't be bothered to actually try and protect them. That's scummy as f*** no matter how you look at it. As someone else mentioned, people went nuts when Hernandez almost killed Doug Williams. The gender plays a part, definetly, but let's not sit here and pretend like this was some perfectly safe spot that wouldn't have gotten a second look if it was done to a male. It's a much smaller performer being taken advantage by a jackass. If this was Rockstar Spud and Tyrus, people would furious. Oh for sure, the whole thing was stupidly dangerous as I said. I very much disliked the whole damn thing. I'm just pointing out that it's only getting so much attention from the public at large (and only being considered so sickening by them) because it's a guy vs a girl. There's countless examples of horribly stupid and violent spots with guys vs guys and girls vs girls that don't get nearly as much play as this. That's sexist as hell imo and is a real disservice to just how awesome Kimber Lee is in the ring. This reeks of coddling the "defenseless girl" to me. Does it not to you? Do you think this would have been viral if sexism wasn't at play?
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Mar 4, 2015 23:17:15 GMT -5
When Triple H and Austin beatdown the Hardyz and Lita it wasn't much different. I think this PG era has softened people up. I think people today are just better human beings in general.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Mar 4, 2015 23:21:39 GMT -5
Also, it's so weird how these conversations always morph into the point that those of us against something like this are somehow sexist because we don't want to see men beat up women.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 23:22:06 GMT -5
...dragged about a bit more and then folded up on her neck when a simple lateral press would have been suffice... Yeah man, that pin was over the top. It surely wasn't part of the storyline about how Kimber Lee pins her male opponents the same damn way. Has anyone here that's commenting about how sick Chris is even seen a Kimber Lee match? You guys seem seriously uninformed as to her character and how her gimmick works.
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 4, 2015 23:24:29 GMT -5
I'm very against anyone being taken advantage of in the ring. That being said, the people proclaiming this isn't about gender are kidding themselves. The ONLY reason this is getting so much play is because it's male on female violence. If it had been Pinkie taking the chairshot and powerbomb with Kimber coming in the ring after to "check" on him no one would have given nearly as much of a damn. That finish was stupidly dangerous but the real sickening thing here is that, no matter how hard Kimber Lee works to show she's just as tough as any man she gets in the ring with, the public at large will continue to coddle her and scream for vengeance when she's on the receiving end of violence. Even when she's JUST as violent with her male counterparts (which, if most of the people whining about this video had watched the rest of her matches, they would have seen). You can hate the hardcore wrestling. You SHOULD hate when someone's being taken advantage of in the ring. You hating this just because it's the big strong guy beating up on the poor widdle girl is just pure f***ing sickening sexism. I can't speak for anybody else but I care anytime a wrestler, male or female, damn near gets paralyzed because some jack-off couldn't be bothered to actually try and protect them. That's scummy as f*** no matter how you look at it. As someone else mentioned, people went nuts when Hernandez almost killed Doug Williams. The gender plays a part, definetly, but let's not sit here and pretend like this was some perfectly safe spot that wouldn't have gotten a second look if it was done to a male. It's a much smaller performer being taken advantage by a jackass. If this was Rockstar Spud and Tyrus, people would still be mad. Plus, given that the entire intention seemed to be to rile the crowd up with the sight of a woman getting hit and dropped like that, there certainly is a gender element that enters into the equation, and it should not be ignored, either. I have no doubt that Beyond booked this wanting to breach the taboo of a woman being brutalized, and it certainly wasn't because of any forward-thinking "This will be empowering to women, proving they can hang and do whatever the guys can do in the ring!", but much more about "this will get the crowd cheering and into a frenzy, because OMG SO EDGY AND TABOO." As mentioned previously, if you want to do inter gender wrestling, go ahead and do it, just do it friggin' well. This looked like exploitative and needlessly dangerous bullshit, which it would still be even if the person on the receiving end of the bumps was just a smaller male wrestler.
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Post by ShaolinHandLock on Mar 4, 2015 23:24:22 GMT -5
Threads like this are the reason why I rarely ever talk about pro wrestling on the internet anymore, as I know what I say will be interpreted wrong.
What I will say is this. I don't agree with the anti-hardcore wrestling people, as I'm a fan of hardcore and deathmatch wrestling. That being said, I've never been a fan of full-force unprotected chairshots to the head, and I often think that people like Mick Foley and Necro Butcher have taken far too many chairshots to the head. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's possible to be a fan of hardcore/deathmatch wrestling and not be a fan of chairshots to the head at the same time, and I don't get why people don't understand that. That being said, I do find it a bit strange that this particular thread is focusing on the chairshot, as every other site I've seen this on has focused on the reckless powerbomb.
And I think calling this 'sickening' is a bit of an overreaction. The Act Yasukawa incident was sickening, this is just a wrestler being reckless in the ring.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 23:24:28 GMT -5
When Triple H and Austin beatdown the Hardyz and Lita it wasn't much different. I think this PG era has softened people up. The key difference, though, is that if HHH, Austin and Lita were out there and told to do a chair shot and a Razor's Edge, it wouldn't have been an issue, as it would have been done by professionals who were making some effort to protect their opponent.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 23:25:07 GMT -5
Also, it's so weird how these conversations always morph into the point that those of us against something like this are somehow sexist because we don't want to see men beat up women. That is sexism by definition. You're fine with men beating up on men and women beating up on women but you're saying that it somehow isn't okay for women and men to be treated as equals. I'm sorry man, but that is absolutely sexism. Kimber Lee can and does hang with the men. Her gimmick is the badass damsel who ISN'T in distress.
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 4, 2015 23:38:41 GMT -5
Also, it's so weird how these conversations always morph into the point that those of us against something like this are somehow sexist because we don't want to see men beat up women. That is sexism by definition. You're fine with men beating up on men and women beating up on women but you're saying that it somehow isn't okay for women and men to be treated as equals. I'm sorry man, but that is absolutely sexism. Kimber Lee can and does hang with the men. Her gimmick is the badass damsel who ISN'T in distress. Context matters, here: if this was a straight up wrestling match, and people were ragging on it just because a woman was involved, I'd totally agree with you. But again, due to the clear crowd reaction they were going for here, I can't agree. I keep using the word exploitative, because that's what it came off as, not empowering.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 23:40:17 GMT -5
Also, it's so weird how these conversations always morph into the point that those of us against something like this are somehow sexist because we don't want to see men beat up women. That is sexism by definition. You're fine with men beating up on men and women beating up on women but you're saying that it somehow isn't okay for women and men to be treated as equals. I'm sorry man, but that is absolutely sexism. Kimber Lee can and does hang with the men. Her gimmick is the badass damsel who ISN'T in distress. You know what? I really don't care if you think I'm a sexist for not wanting to watch men brutalize women. Men brutalizing women is sick. It's even sicker when it's done for entertainment. The audience that gets off on it is even sicker yet. Looks like I'm sexist.
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on Mar 4, 2015 23:43:58 GMT -5
Why, when there's all this documented research into head injuries and the long-term effects of concussions, do people still friggin' insist on chairshots to the head? It's ridiculous. I was linked to LuFisto weighing in on it earlier. Should be spread around and be required reading for anyone who watched that video. well now I want to just give her a big hug. she'd kick my ass, but I still want to. and like others I haven't watched and don't need to. I broke my neck 5 years ago, and it's not a spot I need to see tempted.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Mar 4, 2015 23:44:54 GMT -5
The only way I see it as an issue if the man took liberties on her. Now if she agreed to take those bumps and had no issues before or after it. Who are we to judge it? If she didn't agree and had an issue and became a victim it's different.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Mar 4, 2015 23:47:45 GMT -5
Also, it's so weird how these conversations always morph into the point that those of us against something like this are somehow sexist because we don't want to see men beat up women. That is sexism by definition. You're fine with men beating up on men and women beating up on women but you're saying that it somehow isn't okay for women and men to be treated as equals. I'm sorry man, but that is absolutely sexism. Kimber Lee can and does hang with the men. Her gimmick is the badass damsel who ISN'T in distress. No, the definition of sexism is "prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex." There's a reason stuff like Chikara gets a pass, or The World's Cutest Tag Team gets a pass and stuff like this and Bully putting Dixie through a table doesn't. It's rooted in the shock of "LOOK AT THIS MAN BRUTALIZE THIS WOMAN," not "LOOK AT THESE FANTASTIC COMPETITORS!"
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