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Post by joeiscool on Mar 10, 2015 10:56:09 GMT -5
It's hard to say Vince is out of touch when he's running the most successful wrestling company in the world.
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Post by The Spelunker! on Mar 10, 2015 12:57:50 GMT -5
It's hard to say Vince is out of touch when he's running the most successful wrestling company in the world. Not really. It's pretty common to hear in fact.
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,580
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Post by chrom on Mar 10, 2015 13:04:03 GMT -5
At least he got it at one point, instead of Ditzy who wouldn't get it if it was bashed into her skull with hammer.
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Post by Been burned too many times on Mar 10, 2015 18:34:23 GMT -5
Thread immediately turned into "Well the place where you work sucks too!"
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Post by xCompackx on Mar 10, 2015 21:13:30 GMT -5
Thread immediately turned into "Well the place where you work sucks too!" When you get right down to it, those are the only two places a thread like this can end up at. Josh has a point but at the same time, it's pretty silly to act like TNA is the aspiration of everyone's dream.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Mar 10, 2015 21:20:04 GMT -5
He's right, but MAN, every bit of his potshots have seemed less like actual viewpoints and more trying to win smark brownie points. I don't think brownie points and dingleberries are the same thing.
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Post by Been burned too many times on Mar 10, 2015 21:20:13 GMT -5
Thread immediately turned into "Well the place where you work sucks too!" When you get right down to it, those are the only two places a thread like this can end up at. Josh has a point but at the same time, it's pretty silly to act like TNA is the aspiration of everyone's dream. He never said or implied that though, for some reason that's where people's mind went immediately.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,036
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 10, 2015 21:20:29 GMT -5
He's absolutely right. Rag on him for working in TNA(I know I do), but he's right on the money here.
Hell, he turned out to be absolutely right on J.R. being an old asshole who needed to go away.
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Post by xCompackx on Mar 10, 2015 21:24:31 GMT -5
When you get right down to it, those are the only two places a thread like this can end up at. Josh has a point but at the same time, it's pretty silly to act like TNA is the aspiration of everyone's dream. He never said or implied that though, for some reason that's where people's mind went immediately. True, but it's just the idea of someone criticizing a company when the company that they themselves work at is in a worse place that makes people assume it.
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Post by joeiscool on Mar 10, 2015 23:09:36 GMT -5
It's hard to say Vince is out of touch when he's running the most successful wrestling company in the world. Not really. It's pretty common to hear in fact. common to hear, but it makes very little since, because his company is the most successful. He knows more about what people want in wrestling more than any promotion in the world. In the world... think about that
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Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
Posts: 7,951
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Post by Lancers on Mar 10, 2015 23:58:23 GMT -5
Once anyone in the wrestling business attaches his or her real name to a critique, then that person gets criticized as being bitter or they get ridiculed for working in their current, podunk promotion.
Which is precisely why I told Josh that people would have liked his opinion more if he did it under the username of Ass2Mouth2Mouth over at Squared Circle. Minimum 300 karma points.
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Post by Ganon83 on Mar 11, 2015 1:05:32 GMT -5
If it were Dixie or somebody with comparable power in the company saying it, then it's no good. It's not like Matthews runs the company. He just gets paid (Or at least thinks he will be) by TNA, which is so far behind WWE that only those higher ups like Dixie could even dream of being in competition right now.
Put yourself in his shoes. Would you turn down a job to be the lead voice of a still somewhat nationally televised show, or hell, a job period? Only if you could find a comparable offer from an equal or better company in said field, and with New Japan, ROH, and even CHIKARA uninterested I doubt Matthews had many or any substantial offers to rival TNA's.
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Post by The Spelunker! on Mar 11, 2015 1:41:46 GMT -5
Not really. It's pretty common to hear in fact. common to hear, but it makes very little since, because his company is the most successful. He knows more about what people want in wrestling more than any promotion in the world. In the world... think about that If he knew what people wanted, why would WWE be continually hemmoraging viewers, and having large fan pushback movements. I'm sure there are plenty of people who understand what the 'wrestling fan' wants better, and just aren't put into a position to execute. There are a decent number of people, who if the Board of Directors elected to be the sole creative head of everything could execute better. It's not that hard to be the most popular company when you've been a household name for 30+ years and have a monopoly. It's not like the NFL has to worry about the CFL, for instance.
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
Killing the business one post at a time
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Mar 11, 2015 3:33:17 GMT -5
common to hear, but it makes very little since, because his company is the most successful. He knows more about what people want in wrestling more than any promotion in the world. In the world... think about that If he knew what people wanted, why would WWE be continually hemmoraging viewers, and having large fan pushback movements. I'm sure there are plenty of people who understand what the 'wrestling fan' wants better, and just aren't put into a position to execute. There are a decent number of people, who if the Board of Directors elected to be the sole creative head of everything could execute better. It's not that hard to be the most popular company when you've been a household name for 30+ years and have a monopoly. It's not like the NFL has to worry about the CFL, for instance. And yet despite all that his company is about to draw 50,000+ for a live event, is still making more money than any promotion in history, has a very good business standing and has continually been a trend setter with different entertainment mediums (TV, PPV, network). Where other large and very successful companies (WCW, WCCW, FMW, AWA) have fallen Vince has been a good enough businessman to not only keep them afloat but make them the most profitable promotion in history. There are times when it is OK to criticize. ECW used to criticize WWF/WCW but came across as genuine as they were presenting a product that was entirely different than what the major brands were doing (not to mention they were getting some very good crowds on a weekly basis). It was different this time. First off Josh said this and is a representative of TNA. TNA, as of now, is seen as a watered-down WWE that puts out an inferior product, can't draw people at all, is a money pit and is close to dying a slow and painful death. Saying those things is fine, but saying those things when you are seen as a representative of a failing company seems like cheap bait to try and get "smarks" to rally behind you since it "smarks" tend to unrealistically hate Vince and/or anything WWE does no matter how positive it may be. It reeks of desperation and them trying to get attention.
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Post by joeiscool on Mar 11, 2015 4:37:58 GMT -5
common to hear, but it makes very little since, because his company is the most successful. He knows more about what people want in wrestling more than any promotion in the world. In the world... think about that If he knew what people wanted, why would WWE be continually hemmoraging viewers, and having large fan pushback movements. I'm sure there are plenty of people who understand what the 'wrestling fan' wants better, and just aren't put into a position to execute. There are a decent number of people, who if the Board of Directors elected to be the sole creative head of everything could execute better. It's not that hard to be the most popular company when you've been a household name for 30+ years and have a monopoly. It's not like the NFL has to worry about the CFL, for instance. All these things you said are a smarks myopic view of the wwe. WWE is not getting monday night war ratings, but is still in the top ten shows in the country. The large push back movements are over stated. Most smarks dont get that WWE is a global company. While you might not like certain aspects of the WWE, it's probably more profitable that you'll ever give it credit for..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 6:56:38 GMT -5
If he knew what people wanted, why would WWE be continually hemmoraging viewers, and having large fan pushback movements. I'm sure there are plenty of people who understand what the 'wrestling fan' wants better, and just aren't put into a position to execute. There are a decent number of people, who if the Board of Directors elected to be the sole creative head of everything could execute better. It's not that hard to be the most popular company when you've been a household name for 30+ years and have a monopoly. It's not like the NFL has to worry about the CFL, for instance. All these things you said are a smarks myopic view of the wwe. WWE is not getting monday night war ratings, but is still in the top ten shows in the country. The large push back movements are over stated. Most smarks dont get that WWE is a global company. While you might not like certain aspects of the WWE, it's probably more profitable that you'll ever give it credit for.. Business is still going down, though. It's running firmly on reputation and being an established name, but business is declining in most areas - PPV buys got so horrendous they basically had to abandon that model entirely (and there most certainly is still money in it, ask UFC and boxing), viewership numbers have been continuously dropping year after year for over a decade, and the one time the stock prices did go up they only hung there a few weeks before people caught on to Vince's carny bullshit and they dropped back to the mediocre numbers they'd been floating at for years. The company isn't dying today or anything, but it is sick and in other ten years it could very easily be in very, very bad shape.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 7:28:59 GMT -5
Business is still going down, though. It's running firmly on reputation and being an established name, but business is declining in most areas - PPV buys got so horrendous they basically had to abandon that model entirely (and there most certainly is still money in it, ask UFC and boxing), viewership numbers have been continuously dropping year after year for over a decade, and the one time the stock prices did go up they only hung there a few weeks before people caught on to Vince's carny bullshit and they dropped back to the mediocre numbers they'd been floating at for years. The company isn't dying today or anything, but it is sick and in other ten years it could very easily be in very, very bad shape. UFC are struggling like hell on PPV at the moment. Viewership numbers for Raw are dropping in line with the rest of cable television due to the increase in amount of cable and channels and on demand viewing growing in size, Raw is still usually the top rated cable show each Monday night. what WWE are doing well is maintaining a consistent number, I mean Raw is usually in that same 2.7-3.4 range, nothing can really send it either higher or lower than that. WWE could continue on autopilot for the next decade and be fine. What's more likely to do damage is a major scandal or two and WWE have had more than their fair share of them and weathered them out before.
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Post by Ganon83 on Mar 11, 2015 8:35:39 GMT -5
I think New Japan is ran much better than WWE, and though not as profitable or internationally famous yet it's getting there. Don't think I've ever seen NJPW take off in America like it has the last year or so.
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
Killing the business one post at a time
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Mar 11, 2015 9:52:08 GMT -5
I think New Japan is ran much better than WWE, and though not as profitable or internationally famous yet it's getting there. Don't think I've ever seen NJPW take off in America like it has the last year or so. New Japan is still virtually unknown among casual fans. In regards to the PPV/Network issue Paul Heyman mentioned on an interview that one reason why WWE started to move away from the PPV model is that you make a very small percentage of the money from selling the PPV and they get more money per buy from the Network. Thus they could make more money from the network with less buys. The network was a case of Vince being ahead of the game and it was a very good move.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 10:19:33 GMT -5
This is like the New York Jets ballboy saying that Robert Kraft just doesn't know what he's doing anymore
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