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Post by JTG Fan on Mar 10, 2015 12:25:48 GMT -5
Did we suddenly forget that Rusev won at Fastlane in the least clean win he's probably had? Cena was nearing breaking the Accolade, Lana gets on the apron to distract the ref and Rusev kicks Cena square in the balls. Meanwhile he pretends he won in a dominant performance. Hell, Jack Swagger got more tries at Rusev than Cena has. Any dirtier of a win and Rusev would have had to literally s*** on Cena. A ref distraction and kick in the balls is practically clean to most fans, especially when compared to the rigorous overbooking we are sometimes treated to. I'd be okay with it if Cena's character were actually effected by this. If not next week then by his next feud, he'll be right back to the smiling, joke-telling paragon of virtue who visits sick kids and never gives up. Sort of like how he held Heyman hostage and told him that if Brock didn't show up to fight him, that he was going to beat an out-of-shape non-competitor live on national television. We're not supposed to see this as some dark, desperate corner of Cena that he only taps into at the absolute worst. He's not walking the edge of the abyss; he's saying "nah guys it's cool, I'm cool", plunging headfirst into it, then climbing out the week after and acting like nothing happened. I'm astounded that even people who are a fan of normal, smiling Cena can rationalize these things as even remotely decent writing. Yeah I just hate the inconsistency. Ambrose being a babyface and holding people hostage makes sense. Cena being Mr. Always Do the Right Thing and then being a massive hypocrite by taking hostages to get what he wants is ridiculous.
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Post by sportatorium on Mar 10, 2015 12:28:58 GMT -5
Did we suddenly forget that Rusev won at Fastlane in the least clean win he's probably had? Cena was nearing breaking the Accolade, Lana gets on the apron to distract the ref and Rusev kicks Cena square in the balls. Meanwhile he pretends he won in a dominant performance. Hell, Jack Swagger got more tries at Rusev than Cena has. Any dirtier of a win and Rusev would have had to literally s*** on Cena. The summation of how this feud has been bungled. The heels used nefarious means to win, gloat with a series of half truths on how great they are, but the babyface & announcers don't follow that story. Cena goes from whiny jingoism to a desperate man who doesn't do anything desperate to Curtis Axel even though he said he would to crazy man forcing Lana's hand. Sometimes I wonder if their writers have ever watched wrestling, TV or a movie where we are supposed to like the good guys & dislike the bad guys.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Mar 10, 2015 12:29:54 GMT -5
I didn't think it was possible to come up with something worse than Marine Cena, but pro America Cena is ten times worse.
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TCM
Don Corleone
The Outcome Justifies Even the Biggest Lie
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Post by TCM on Mar 10, 2015 12:43:08 GMT -5
Did we suddenly forget that Rusev won at Fastlane in the least clean win he's probably had? Cena was nearing breaking the Accolade, Lana gets on the apron to distract the ref and Rusev kicks Cena square in the balls. Meanwhile he pretends he won in a dominant performance. Hell, Jack Swagger got more tries at Rusev than Cena has. Any dirtier of a win and Rusev would have had to literally s*** on Cena. The summation of how this feud has been bungled. The heels used nefarious means to win, gloat with a series of half truths on how great they are, but the babyface & announcers don't follow that story. Cena goes from whiny jingoism to a desperate man who doesn't do anything desperate to Curtis Axel even though he said he would to crazy man forcing Lana's hand. Sometimes I wonder if their writers have ever watched wrestling, TV or a movie where we are supposed to like the good guys & dislike the bad guys. I think the problem is somehow, it's unjustified for Cena. He gets screwed out of a genuine opportunity, the heel acts as if other people are more deserving (when the rest of the midcard is fighting over the IC title) despite not having a legit win, and Cena plays the game others have used against him, yet because Cena is the superface, he's somehow expected to act like that even when he gets so blatantly screwed. Instead, like you said, we get the jingoistic "You trash talk the one place that lets you talk trash openly," when he should just be a pissed, slighted man. Hell, I hate when they overplay the masculinity card but surely you can rustle Rusev's jimmies if you tell him he's not a real man/superior athlete based on the way he won. Did we suddenly forget that Rusev won at Fastlane in the least clean win he's probably had? Cena was nearing breaking the Accolade, Lana gets on the apron to distract the ref and Rusev kicks Cena square in the balls. Meanwhile he pretends he won in a dominant performance. Hell, Jack Swagger got more tries at Rusev than Cena has. Any dirtier of a win and Rusev would have had to literally s*** on Cena. A ref distraction and kick in the balls is practically clean to most fans, especially when compared to the rigorous overbooking we are sometimes treated to. Which annoys me so much. In what universe is someone who actually cheated to win supposed to be seen as the more likable person? This isn't an Eddie Guerrero, comedic cheater situation.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 12:54:45 GMT -5
maybe he took the boos to his heart and worked as heel in his matches? it has happened many times before with Punk goading Del Rio for a WWE title match Punk was clearly meant to be the babyface in that situation though. Same thing with Cena here. I'm fine with wrestlers having an aggressive side but not when the announcers ride their dick and praise them for it as if they don't condemn the exact same shit when a heel does it. It's horribly inconsistent. It needs to be played off as "man, I don't condone Cena's actions here tonight but it's not hard to see why he did it if you look at it from his POV." Not, "Boy, Cena sure is brilliant for his plan tonight!" That's my problem. If you're going to have Cena do this kind of stuff, fine, but don't have Cole jizzing himself over it like Cena just singlehandedly stopped terrorism. Have the commentators call Cena out for it, show them being worried that he's gone too far even though they support his reasons for doing so. Something that doesn't make it completely ridiculous.
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Push R Truth
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Post by Push R Truth on Mar 10, 2015 13:03:04 GMT -5
Hustle, Loyalty, Respect. Be a Star! RISE ABOVE HATE... until that belief ends up causing a minor inconvenience.
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Post by angryfan on Mar 10, 2015 13:39:49 GMT -5
The Cena/Ambrose paradox, I get it but I can see why some would call it inconsistent. Here's my take.
Ambrose is supposed to be nuts, that's kinda his deal. He has unspoken mental issues to where you don't know where he's going to go with it because, in character, neither does he.
I work with mental patients, every single day. I've seen guys go from "everything's cool, I'm just watching TV" to "Those motherf***ing styrfoam cup gnomes won't leave me alone" (an actual quote I heard a week ago) followed by throwing a table across the room. It's the nature of mental illness in that it's unpredictable.
Now if I see someone who proclaims to be an absolute boy scout going into "If I don't get what I want, I'll hurt you" territory, I'm left either thinking that some horrible wrong has been committed (violence against his family, something like that) or he's so insular in his thinking that "my desires and wants are paramount and not getting them will cause a great wrong in the world" is gone beyond narcissistic psychosis and into an abject delusion.
The Wyatt/Rusev connection, it just makes it worse. Threaten to ruin thigns for the kids? Threaten to hurt them? I damn sure won't give in and hit you with this chair, you horrible monstrous bastard. Wait, that guy kinda cheated to beat me in a regular match where the only thing on the line was personal pride? I want him DEAD!"
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Post by sonofblaine on Mar 10, 2015 15:14:47 GMT -5
Cena's playing up to his little kid demo. All smiles and sophomoric jokes when he's happy, but when things don't go his way, he throws a tantrum and makes mad, pouty faces.
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ededdneddy
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Post by ededdneddy on Mar 10, 2015 15:19:07 GMT -5
The Cena/Ambrose paradox, I get it but I can see why some would call it inconsistent. Here's my take. Ambrose is supposed to be nuts, that's kinda his deal. He has unspoken mental issues to where you don't know where he's going to go with it because, in character, neither does he. I work with mental patients, every single day. I've seen guys go from "everything's cool, I'm just watching TV" to "Those motherf***ing styrfoam cup gnomes won't leave me alone" (an actual quote I heard a week ago) followed by throwing a table across the room. It's the nature of mental illness in that it's unpredictable. Now if I see someone who proclaims to be an absolute boy scout going into "If I don't get what I want, I'll hurt you" territory, I'm left either thinking that some horrible wrong has been committed (violence against his family, something like that) or he's so insular in his thinking that "my desires and wants are paramount and not getting them will cause a great wrong in the world" is gone beyond narcissistic psychosis and into an abject delusion. The Wyatt/Rusev connection, it just makes it worse. Threaten to ruin thigns for the kids? Threaten to hurt them? I damn sure won't give in and hit you with this chair, you horrible monstrous bastard. Wait, that guy kinda cheated to beat me in a regular match where the only thing on the line was personal pride? I want him DEAD!" Exactly and the thing with Ambrose is I feel when I see his character holding something or someone hostage like how he tied up Barrett and forced him to sign the contract was his way of trying to get his point across. Its in his nature to do something out of the ordinary and making himself believe that hey my way works so why change it. HE EVEN GOT THAT ONE PSYCHIATRIST TO BE THE ONE TO BE EVALUATED. How the hell do you do that? Ambrose is someone who can trick you into doing something either for kicks or part of a whole crazy plan that he has concocted in his unhinged mind. Cena on the other hand is the boy scout kind of guy and the fact that he is playing the role of whinny little kid who makes a scene in a store cause he can't have that toy he wants.
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Post by Ruthless Pessimism on Mar 10, 2015 15:34:55 GMT -5
Cena is the face, Rusev is the heel.
The heel won their match by cheating and made a 'statement' by making the face pass out in his finisher.
The face wants a rematch, doesn't get one, so he makes a 'statement' by kicking the heel's ass and forcing him to agree to a fair rematch.
I don't see what the problem is.
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Post by wallabylikeyou on Mar 10, 2015 17:08:31 GMT -5
John Cena the character is a goddamn lunatic.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 18:21:32 GMT -5
To play devil's advocate though, was there really any route they could have taken with this "convince Rusev to accept the match" angle that wouldn't have been annoying? Whether it's costing him the title before the PPV, calling him Commander Doodybottoms and giving him a photoshop assault, or beating the shit out of him this was never meant to be any fun. An idea that came up to me today would be a sorta reverse of the build-up for Slaughter/Hogan at WMVII. As in every week John Cena does something to defame Russia (setting the Russian flag on fire, stomping down on a portrait of President Putin etc.), making Rusev increasingly angrier until Rusev finally says Yes to the match just so he can kill John Cena for his actions.
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Post by Kay Faban on Mar 10, 2015 18:32:16 GMT -5
People want cena to be more aggressive until he is.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Mar 10, 2015 19:20:46 GMT -5
This is basic terrorism.
Ba-ba-basic terrorism.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 19:42:34 GMT -5
I think he definitely over-reacted, but not like that bad. It's not as bad as Rollins going for innocent retired guy with a bad neck. And was there any explicit statement about breaking Rusev's neck? He was just holding his crappy STF for a long time. I don't know, it didn't strike me as the ultimate babyface crosses the line moment. Punk did the exact same thing to Alberto Del Rio to get his title match at Survivor Series 2011.
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Post by angryfan on Mar 10, 2015 19:49:27 GMT -5
I think he definitely over-reacted, but not like that bad. It's not as bad as Rollins going for innocent retired guy with a bad neck. And was there any explicit statement about breaking Rusev's neck? He was just holding his crappy STF for a long time. I don't know, it didn't strike me as the ultimate babyface crosses the line moment. Punk did the exact same thing to Alberto Del Rio to get his title match at Survivor Series 2011. Character consistency differentiation though. Punk was a smarmy, selfish asshole and that was as a babyface. Rollins has been the "find an advantage and cheat like a sumbitch" heel, so of COURSE he'd go after someone with a bad neck because he knew he HAD the advantage. Honestly, this move by Cena, as much as I think it's a bad move for an uberface, and I've said why, this is his eliminating Sid at the Rumble and nothing more. There was no big moral reason for him to do it, no grandiose "for the kids" hero bit, it was an ego moment that the announcers will straight up ignore and act like he was victimized.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 20:04:25 GMT -5
I think he definitely over-reacted, but not like that bad. It's not as bad as Rollins going for innocent retired guy with a bad neck. And was there any explicit statement about breaking Rusev's neck? He was just holding his crappy STF for a long time. I don't know, it didn't strike me as the ultimate babyface crosses the line moment. Punk did the exact same thing to Alberto Del Rio to get his title match at Survivor Series 2011. Character consistency differentiation though. Punk was a smarmy, selfish asshole and that was as a babyface. Rollins has been the "find an advantage and cheat like a sumbitch" heel, so of COURSE he'd go after someone with a bad neck because he knew he HAD the advantage. Honestly, this move by Cena, as much as I think it's a bad move for an uberface, and I've said why, this is his eliminating Sid at the Rumble and nothing more. There was no big moral reason for him to do it, no grandiose "for the kids" hero bit, it was an ego moment that the announcers will straight up ignore and act like he was victimized. I don't see how being smarmy plays into doing something like using a hold to get what you want. Punk was portrayed as resourceful and clever, and Del Rio was the heel who got what he was coming. This situation isn't much different. We get so used to heels being heels, but winning a match by cheating, refusing to grant a rematch, and talking tons of shit, that makes Rusev a bad guy. He's still in the wrong, and has provoked Cena into using measures beyond asking for a match. There's a lot worse things Cena could do than putting Rusev in the STF for a long time. A lot of people, myself included, have bitched for a long time about Cena shrugging everything off, but in this situation he's not, and I think it's a good thing. Another example I thought of, Mick Foley using that hold on Shane McMahon and threatening to "break his god damn shoulder" if he didn't get his title match. Sure, Foley was nutty, but at that point in his career he was portrayed as a good-hearted, downright playful babyface.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Mar 10, 2015 20:25:10 GMT -5
This is why a neutral to babyface authority is better then a heel one. I've been watching Mid-South stuff recently and Bill Watts would show up occasionally as The President with Grizzly Smith as "the match maker" to keep heels from cheating faces out of having the matches they were do. Now WWE writes themselves into these corners where the end game is Cena beating Rusev at Wrestlemania but they can't get from point A (Cena passes out and loses) to point B (Cena wins rematch) without a bunch of unnecessary crap.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Mar 10, 2015 21:20:42 GMT -5
It was the most badass thing Cena has done in a long time. I see it as Cena getting even, since Rusev has jumped Cena in the past and made him pass out from his hold, cheated him out of a win by kicking him in the balls to get the unfair advantage and making him pass out, and then refusing to grant a rematch after Cena was cheated.
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Bang Bang Bart
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Mar 10, 2015 21:20:56 GMT -5
This is basic terrorism. Ba-ba-basic terrorism. I'm untouchable and I'm forcing you to acquiesce to me.
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