It doesn't help that the commentary team either demonizes (she's crazy! You know how women are, maggle) or overly sexualizes them, paying the bare min of lip service to actually promoting them as athletes.
Also true. WWE doesn't like to focus on the in-ring action and the women's storylines are bad. We get garbage like Paige crawling over people and licking them. Is that what passes for women's wrestling? It's unacceptable, and it's wrong.
There's something else that's being overlooked. A lot of people in the audience popped for the finish and the final part of the match. The crowd started off apathetic and rude, but the ladies in the ring won most of them over by the end. If WWE is willing to commit to the divas and consistently give them more time to wrestle and show what they can do in the ring, then the issues of negative fan reaction will go away.
Thing is, they've been giving them time and storyline focus since AJ returned and most crowds - including last Sunday, oddly enough, were very receptive. There wasn't a big thread about it but Nikki and Paige had the match of the night a week ago and the crowd ate it up. Every moment. Start to finish. And they didn't need wacky chants to express their interest.
This crowd was smarmy. It's that simple. Like I said, I'm not going to blame Nikki or WWE for this. Both have been trying and in WWE's case who knows how long it will last? But while they are trying, don't come up with the most offensive chant to a woman since 'WE WANT PUPPIES.'
Last Edit: Mar 31, 2015 11:19:39 GMT -5 by Abdullah
Also true. WWE doesn't like to focus on the in-ring action and the women's storylines are bad. We get garbage like Paige crawling over people and licking them. Is that what passes for women's wrestling? It's unacceptable, and it's wrong.
There's something else that's being overlooked. A lot of people in the audience popped for the finish and the final part of the match. The crowd started off apathetic and rude, but the ladies in the ring won most of them over by the end. If WWE is willing to commit to the divas and consistently give them more time to wrestle and show what they can do in the ring, then the issues of negative fan reaction will go away.
Thing is, they've been giving them time and storyline focus since AJ returned and most crowds - including last Sunday, oddly enough, were very receptive. There wasn't a big thread about it but Nikki and Paige had the match of the night a week ago and the crowd ate it up.
This crowd was smarmy. It's that simple. Like I said, I'm not going to blame Nikki or WWE for this. Both have been trying and in WWE's case who knows how long it will last? But while they are trying, don't come up with the most offensive chant to a woman since 'WE WANT PUPPIES.'
Expecting every crowd across the country to immediately act respectful to something that's been treated as lower than dirt for years is wishful thinking. It'd be great if people could adapt that quickly, but what we heard last night was a relic of the bad old days. That's going to persist sometimes, but the fact that the crowd that was responsible moved away from it as the match went on? I think that's encouraging. As long as WWE doesn't get tired of booking women to do wrestling, anyway.
Thing is, they've been giving them time and storyline focus since AJ returned and most crowds - including last Sunday, oddly enough, were very receptive. There wasn't a big thread about it but Nikki and Paige had the match of the night a week ago and the crowd ate it up.
This crowd was smarmy. It's that simple. Like I said, I'm not going to blame Nikki or WWE for this. Both have been trying and in WWE's case who knows how long it will last? But while they are trying, don't come up with the most offensive chant to a woman since 'WE WANT PUPPIES.'
Expecting every crowd across the country to immediately act respectful to something that's been treated as lower than dirt for years is wishful thinking. It'd be great if people could adapt that quickly, but what we heard last night was a relic of the bad old days. That's going to persist sometimes, but the fact that the crowd that was responsible moved away from it as the match went on? I think that's encouraging. As long as WWE doesn't get tired of booking women to do wrestling, anyway.
I really don't think it's a question of getting audiences to adapt.
They just wanted to show how 'witty' they were, and when they were satisfied with their brilliance, they started reacting regularly. It speaks to their own biases that it's the first thing they'd shout out, even to Naomi who gets a decent enough response more often than not.
Expecting every crowd across the country to immediately act respectful to something that's been treated as lower than dirt for years is wishful thinking. It'd be great if people could adapt that quickly, but what we heard last night was a relic of the bad old days. That's going to persist sometimes, but the fact that the crowd that was responsible moved away from it as the match went on? I think that's encouraging. As long as WWE doesn't get tired of booking women to do wrestling, anyway.
I really don't think it's a question of getting audiences to adapt.
They just wanted to show how 'witty' they were, and when they were satisfied with their brilliance, they started reacting regularly. It speaks to their own biases that it's the first thing they'd shout out, even to Naomi who gets a decent enough response more often than not.
That requires a bit of an understanding of the crowd that we really don't have. We don't know exactly why they did it, but we do know that even they were willing to stop after a while, and started acting respectfully by the end of the match. By no means does that redeem them, but if that crowd--one so outwardly mean-spirited--could go from absolute trash to cheering the action in the ring, I consider that to be a positive because it bodes so well for other audiences.
It doesn't help that the commentary team either demonizes (she's crazy! You know how women are, maggle) or overly sexualizes them, paying the bare min of lip service to actually promoting them as athletes.
Also true. WWE doesn't like to focus on the in-ring action and the women's storylines are bad. We get garbage like Paige crawling over people and licking them. Is that what passes for women's wrestling? It's unacceptable, and it's wrong.
There's something else that's being overlooked. A lot of people in the audience popped for the finish and the final part of the match. The crowd started off apathetic and rude, but the ladies in the ring won most of them over by the end. If WWE is willing to commit to the divas and consistently give them more time to wrestle and show what they can do in the ring, then the issues of negative fan reaction will go away.
Exactly, give them serious, decent women's wrestling and the crowd will react. These same people doing sexist chants on Raw were probably cheering their heads off for the women's matches at the NXT show a few days earlier. Give them credible wrestling and they'll take it seriously (as the crowd were doing by the end of the Raw match, because it was pretty damn good). Tell them all the Divas are crazy sluts who are only there to look hot as WWE has been doing for most of the last decade-and-a-half, and you get this reaction. Not that it in any way excuses the actions of those involved, but it's true.
I really don't think it's a question of getting audiences to adapt.
They just wanted to show how 'witty' they were, and when they were satisfied with their brilliance, they started reacting regularly. It speaks to their own biases that it's the first thing they'd shout out, even to Naomi who gets a decent enough response more often than not.
That requires a bit of an understanding of the crowd that we really don't have. We don't know exactly why they did it, but we do know that even they were willing to stop after a while, and started acting respectfully by the end of the match. By no means does that redeem them, but if that crowd--one so outwardly mean-spirited--could go from absolute trash to cheering the action in the ring, I consider that to be a positive because it bodes so well for other audiences.
Sure. Other audiences that either are already making respectful, sensible noise when there's a storyline to invest in or reacting with understandable apathy when there isn't.
I get what you're saying. I appreciate the optimism. I just won't hop on 'the Bellas aren't very good and you know... Total Divas' train. This isn't on them. There are other ways to express that, chants that would have advanced the current storyline, without being totally shitty to the face that actually got the pin.
Which part does WWE listen to? The sexism or the support? Why didn't this crowd, this smart crowd that surely has noticed the increased time in bouts as of late, allow the women to build a story without heckling them in the worst way for a portion of it? They were sexist. It's simple.
Last Edit: Mar 31, 2015 11:48:29 GMT -5 by Abdullah
Also true. WWE doesn't like to focus on the in-ring action and the women's storylines are bad. We get garbage like Paige crawling over people and licking them. Is that what passes for women's wrestling? It's unacceptable, and it's wrong.
There's something else that's being overlooked. A lot of people in the audience popped for the finish and the final part of the match. The crowd started off apathetic and rude, but the ladies in the ring won most of them over by the end. If WWE is willing to commit to the divas and consistently give them more time to wrestle and show what they can do in the ring, then the issues of negative fan reaction will go away.
Thing is, they've been giving them time and storyline focus since AJ returned and most crowds - including last Sunday, oddly enough, were very receptive. There wasn't a big thread about it but Nikki and Paige had the match of the night a week ago and the crowd ate it up. Every moment. Start to finish. And they didn't need wacky chants to express their interest.
This crowd was smarmy. It's that simple. Like I said, I'm not going to blame Nikki or WWE for this. Both have been trying and in WWE's case who knows how long it will last? But while they are trying, don't come up with the most offensive chant to a woman since 'WE WANT PUPPIES.'
Even then, even if it is to remark about WWE's selective sexism- just trying to compare the chants last night to...well, virtually ANY chant a woman's ever gotten is trivializing the chants and lessening how evil they truly were.
The very fact is, the chants last night were SO offensive, so out there, that not only are they the single worst chants any Diva's gotten, they were so bad they are virtually impossible to compare to any chant a woman's ever gotten in a wrestling ring. Even chants remotely close like "SHE'S A CRACK WHORE!" from ECW, where the chant was STILL less of one (because even claiming the woman was a crack whore was still saying they're sleeping with non-specific mystery people and not one specific "YOU SHOULD BE SHAMED FOR THIS SEXUAL ACT!" moment) were still so lessened that it is lower.
The only chant even close to that would be the "YOU SCREWED EDGE!" chants Lita got after the storyline broke in 2005, and even then you can argue that these chants were STILL worse, because it went further than "You left this person we admire for another man!" and went to "You sleep with your husband! STONE THE HARLOT!" to an even further level of offensive behavior never seen before by the fans. (Seriously, these chants were so bad that if I was WWE, I honestly consider turning Daniel Bryan heel on the Smackdown tapings tonight to spite the fans who made these chants, solely his character being built on "loves the fans and how they built him up to become a star" and "deeply, hopelessly in love with his wife and everyone who watches Total Divas knows this" mixing to a perfect reason to say "What the F***, fans? WHAT THE F***? I was fighting for people like YOU all this time? Go to hell.")
Thing is, they've been giving them time and storyline focus since AJ returned and most crowds - including last Sunday, oddly enough, were very receptive. There wasn't a big thread about it but Nikki and Paige had the match of the night a week ago and the crowd ate it up. Every moment. Start to finish. And they didn't need wacky chants to express their interest.
This crowd was smarmy. It's that simple. Like I said, I'm not going to blame Nikki or WWE for this. Both have been trying and in WWE's case who knows how long it will last? But while they are trying, don't come up with the most offensive chant to a woman since 'WE WANT PUPPIES.'
Even then, even if it is to remark about WWE's selective sexism- just trying to compare the chants last night to...well, virtually ANY chant a woman's ever gotten is trivializing the chants and lessening how evil they truly were.
The very fact is, the chants last night were SO offensive, so out there, that not only are they the single worst chants any Diva's gotten, they were so bad they are virtually impossible to compare to any chant a woman's ever gotten in a wrestling ring. Even chants remotely close like "SHE'S A CRACK WHORE!" from ECW, where the chant was STILL less of one (because even claiming the woman was a crack whore was still saying they're sleeping with non-specific mystery people and not one specific "YOU SHOULD BE SHAMED FOR THIS SEXUAL ACT!" moment) were still so lessened that it is lower.
The only chant even close to that would be the "YOU SCREWED EDGE!" chants Lita got after the storyline broke in 2005, and even then you can argue that these chants were STILL worse, because it went further than "You left this person we admire for another man!" and went to "You sleep with your husband! STONE THE HARLOT!" to an even further level of offensive behavior never seen before by the fans. (Seriously, these chants were so bad that if I was WWE, I honestly consider turning Daniel Bryan heel on the Smackdown tapings tonight to spite the fans who made these chants, solely his character being built on "loves the fans and how they built him up to become a star" and "deeply, hopelessly in love with his wife and everyone who watches Total Divas knows this" mixing to a perfect reason to say "What the F***, fans? WHAT THE F***? I was fighting for people like YOU all this time? Go to hell.")
Honestly, truly, as I think back on it I'm not that mad at the crowd. It's whatever.
What set me off is the turn this thread takes in the last few pages. The implicit layer of 'well, the Bellas aren't smark favorites so it's understandable'. No. Just no. Call a spade a spade without the need for caveats.
On a side note, how come it's okay to joke about Rosa Mendes giving head to Michael Hayes to keep her job? Just wondering.
Like it or not, there is a difference between saying something on a website they can easily avoid and chanting something at them at there place of employment while they are just doing their job.
On a side note, how come it's okay to joke about Rosa Mendes giving head to Michael Hayes to keep her job? Just wondering.
Like it or not, there is a difference between saying something on a website they can easily avoid and chanting something at them at there place of employment while they are just doing their job.
So it would be okay to say something sexist or racist or homophobic, as long as the person you're saying it about doesn't see/hear it?
On a side note, how come it's okay to joke about Rosa Mendes giving head to Michael Hayes to keep her job? Just wondering.
Well, it's the only explanation that makes sense, considering she doesn't seem to have any discernable talents. It's not unlike joking about Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian for what they are famous for. Everyone falling victim to those chants however really don't deserve them though.
On a side note, how come it's okay to joke about Rosa Mendes giving head to Michael Hayes to keep her job? Just wondering.
It's not.
How come no one ever gets called out on it then? Everyone seems to just yuk it up. Ironic considering Rosa and Hayes is just a rumour while Brie or Nikki "sucking" Cena and Bryan is almost certainly true.
Post by Jumpin' Jesse Walsh on Mar 31, 2015 13:29:20 GMT -5
It's disgusting chants like that make me rage so hard, and saying the Bella Twins deserved it because they made their relationships public on Total Divas is awful and still vaguely sounds like slut-shaming to me when read between the lines. Nobody deserves sexism. Nobody deserves misogyny. A woman's choice in sexual partners does not somehow justify her marginalization and objectification.
With that said, I am happy to see plenty of people here who feel the same way.
Totally unrelated, although perhaps relevant from an intersectional point of view, those chants remind me of treatment Randy Orton got at One Night Stand 2006 where the crowd taunted him with anti-gay chants. Randy Orton is straight, yeah, but the chants were phrased in a way that made queerness as a detriment to Orton's character and means for embarrassment. Like, I shutter to think what a few members of that crowd would've shouted at an openly gay wrestler. Anti-gay chants were nothing new at that point, but that event always stuck out to me.
How come no one ever gets called out on it then? Everyone seems to just yuk it up. Ironic considering Rosa and Hayes is just a rumour while Brie or Nikki "sucking" Cena and Bryan is almost certainly true.
I'm in agreement with you. Rosa doing what she needs to do to keep her job, or loving Michael Hayes, or seeing him as a friend, it's ultimately not going to harm anyone that WWE really likes. Rosa's harmless at the end of the day.
It's one of those things, like gushing about Nikki's boobs in a thread discussing her ring work, that I wish wasn't done.
On a side note, how come it's okay to joke about Rosa Mendes giving head to Michael Hayes to keep her job? Just wondering.
Well, it's the only explanation that makes sense, considering she doesn't seem to have any discernable talents. It's not unlike joking about Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian for what they are famous for. Everyone falling victim to those chants however really don't deserve them though.
Or maybe WWE just likes her? Her current role as an attractive valet is fine. Plus it's subjective. If I didn't think the Bellas had any discernible talents, am I okay to chant about them sucking dicks to be where they are?