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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on May 26, 2015 14:57:38 GMT -5
I don't understand. That move looked fine. Why are people acting like it looked bad?
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ededdneddy
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Post by ededdneddy on May 26, 2015 15:00:38 GMT -5
So much for being friends
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on May 26, 2015 15:03:28 GMT -5
So Ryder shouldn't be allowed to look strong ever? Not against Cena, no. If they want to build him up, do it against lower card guys. Him losing on superstars to having a back-and-forth match on Raw for ten minutes with John fricken Cena on Raw where he gets multiple near falls is very unbelievable. I went and got food because there was zero doubt about the ending. It'd be like it Barry Horowitz dominated a match with Hulk Hogan. And then those other's guys look bad because if they lose to Zack Ryder, they're basically a "jobber to other jobbers"; WWE has ruined their lower card so badly that any of them beating another would just look like a burial. But if you have Ryder go over lower card guys NOW that we've seen what he's capable of AFTER having a competitive match with Cena, he can spread his momentum around and there'd be no "shame" in losing to Zack Ryder
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 26, 2015 15:08:46 GMT -5
Not against Cena, no. If they want to build him up, do it against lower card guys. Him losing on superstars to having a back-and-forth match on Raw for ten minutes with John fricken Cena on Raw where he gets multiple near falls is very unbelievable. I went and got food because there was zero doubt about the ending. It'd be like it Barry Horowitz dominated a match with Hulk Hogan. And then those other's guys look bad because if they lose to Zack Ryder, they're basically a "jobber to other jobbers"; WWE has ruined their lower card so badly that any of them beating another would just look like a burial. But if you have Ryder go over lower card guys NOW that we've seen what he's capable of AFTER having a competitive match with Cena, he can spread his momentum around and there'd be no "shame" in losing to Zack Ryder Until next week, when Rusev stomps him like a grape.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 26, 2015 15:09:37 GMT -5
I don't understand. That move looked fine. Why are people acting like it looked bad? it looked a little iffy when he started he was much more / then he should have been and he overshot by a lot. But he obviously hasn't done a hell of a lot of them so it's passable on that front... and it's not like he landed knees first like Angle did the few times he tried it.
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Post by "Gentleman" AJ Powell on May 26, 2015 16:11:54 GMT -5
He also pulled out an Unprettier at one point. Keeping his absorbing the powers of ECW people alive! If he'd gone for a Nightmare on Helms Street instead of a 450, he might've won!
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 26, 2015 16:16:38 GMT -5
He also pulled out an Unprettier at one point. Keeping his absorbing the powers of ECW people alive! If he'd gone for a Nightmare on Helms Street instead of a 450, he might've won! If Zack ever steals Big Zeke's Bodyslam Rampage, I promise I'll become a Ryder fan. For at least 48 hours.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 16:18:03 GMT -5
I don't understand. That move looked fine. Why are people acting like it looked bad? I was referring to the fact that he smacked his head on the mat pretty good, not that it was poor form or anything. It's like Alex Riley's Blockbuster, he can do one but if he does it on a regular basis he's probably getting injured.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on May 26, 2015 16:51:53 GMT -5
I still stand by my conspiracy theory that Zack pulled out the Killswitch and the 450 last night not just because it was the last night at Nassau but because he probably plans to leave the company/has been told his contract won't be renewed.
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Post by häšhtå.gdālėÿ on May 26, 2015 17:34:04 GMT -5
I still stand by my conspiracy theory that Zack pulled out the Killswitch and the 450 last night not just because it was the last night at Nassau but because he probably plans to leave the company/has been told his contract won't be renewed. I agree. That whole thing felt very "This is the last time you will EVER see Zack Ryder" to me.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 17:38:31 GMT -5
He also pulled out an Unprettier at one point. Keeping his absorbing the powers of ECW people alive! If he'd gone for a Nightmare on Helms Street instead of a 450, he might've won! If Zack ever steals Big Zeke's Bodyslam Rampage, I promise I'll become a Ryder fan. For at least 48 hours. Come to think of it that would've been a cool Rumble spot.
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Post by Emmet Russell on May 26, 2015 17:39:41 GMT -5
Not against Cena, no. If they want to build him up, do it against lower card guys. Him losing on superstars to having a back-and-forth match on Raw for ten minutes with John fricken Cena on Raw where he gets multiple near falls is very unbelievable. I went and got food because there was zero doubt about the ending. It'd be like it Barry Horowitz dominated a match with Hulk Hogan. Let me put it this way. In Rocky, Rocky didn't get a title match because he deserved it. On paper, he didn't. He was just a local to sell a match and to give Apollo Creed a novelty match. What Apollo couldn't have predicted is the fire it'd light under Rocky's ass to just about kill himself to try and win that boxing match, because he didn't deserve it, and would never get that chance again. Ryder had a chance against Cena, arguably the biggest name in wrestling right now, period. It should make him fight harder, it should make him pull out all the stops, it should make him push himself harder than he would against, like, Adam Rose, because even if he injured himself, it'd be worth it if he won. Don't get me wrong, I am glad he didn't win, but TAKA taking Triple H to the limit didn't kill Triple H, Kurt Angle took nearfalls from Crash Holly or Essa Rios without losing credibility, it's the Apollo Creed "This is going to be easy" humbling, because that's a story people tend to eat up. If I'm correct, the HHH/Taka match was a pure squash until Taka picked up a fluke win. That's different than Ryder getting in an even amount of offence with John Cena. I get your analogy, I just don't agree with it. Ryder getting all that offence after not being on TV in months apart from a squash loss just last week is not good and it took away any interest I could have had in the match. It should have been a pure squash until Cena made a mistake and Ryder pulled out the 450 out of desperation, hit it, Cena kicked out because he wasn't weakened enough and then Cena won. The Stardust and Barrett matches felt much the same, but at least those guys are constantly on TV and could potentially be a champion. Ryder won't be.
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Post by sternrogers01 on May 26, 2015 17:51:53 GMT -5
Happy 450th birthday Zach, you're looking spry for your age
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on May 26, 2015 17:58:00 GMT -5
I don't understand. That move looked fine. Why are people acting like it looked bad? Because Ryder.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on May 26, 2015 17:58:27 GMT -5
I don't understand. That move looked fine. Why are people acting like it looked bad? I was referring to the fact that he smacked his head on the mat pretty good, not that it was poor form or anything. It's like Alex Riley's Blockbuster, he can do one but if he does it on a regular basis he's probably getting injured. Guys like Ryder and Riley HAVE to do these kind of moves. They are respectably sized, but they aren't big enough to be power wrestlers, they are not technical workrate machines, and they haven't been given much character wise. So they have to resort to the flippy, high risk maneuvers in order to at least try to get the fans' interest and to try to keep up with many of the talents rising up on the main roster and NXT. EDIT: They don't bust out a high risk move, people complain that they're bland, boring, etc.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on May 26, 2015 18:17:30 GMT -5
I don't understand. That move looked fine. Why are people acting like it looked bad? I was referring to the fact that he smacked his head on the mat pretty good, not that it was poor form or anything. It's like Alex Riley's Blockbuster, he can do one but if he does it on a regular basis he's probably getting injured. Probably a practice thing though. Not like he gets to hit that move during his squash matches too often. Although if he did manage to hit that during a squash I'd be seriously impressed.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on May 26, 2015 19:48:44 GMT -5
Let me put it this way. In Rocky, Rocky didn't get a title match because he deserved it. On paper, he didn't. He was just a local to sell a match and to give Apollo Creed a novelty match. What Apollo couldn't have predicted is the fire it'd light under Rocky's ass to just about kill himself to try and win that boxing match, because he didn't deserve it, and would never get that chance again. Ryder had a chance against Cena, arguably the biggest name in wrestling right now, period. It should make him fight harder, it should make him pull out all the stops, it should make him push himself harder than he would against, like, Adam Rose, because even if he injured himself, it'd be worth it if he won. Don't get me wrong, I am glad he didn't win, but TAKA taking Triple H to the limit didn't kill Triple H, Kurt Angle took nearfalls from Crash Holly or Essa Rios without losing credibility, it's the Apollo Creed "This is going to be easy" humbling, because that's a story people tend to eat up. If I'm correct, the HHH/Taka match was a pure squash until Taka picked up a fluke win. That's different than Ryder getting in an even amount of offence with John Cena. I get your analogy, I just don't agree with it. Ryder getting all that offence after not being on TV in months apart from a squash loss just last week is not good and it took away any interest I could have had in the match. It should have been a pure squash until Cena made a mistake and Ryder pulled out the 450 out of desperation, hit it, Cena kicked out because he wasn't weakened enough and then Cena won. The Stardust and Barrett matches felt much the same, but at least those guys are constantly on TV and could potentially be a champion. Ryder won't be. You're thinking of Kaientai and Brooklyn Brawler versus Triple H, I think, where Jericho helped them win the match by hitting Triple H with the Lionsault. TAKA versus Triple H in a title match was a different match, and if I recall, a really good one, worth checking out. But yeah, I can see why you wouldn't like it. Stuff like this is why I wish we had more competent commentators, to help sell these matches.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 26, 2015 19:55:40 GMT -5
If I'm correct, the HHH/Taka match was a pure squash until Taka picked up a fluke win. That's different than Ryder getting in an even amount of offence with John Cena. I get your analogy, I just don't agree with it. Ryder getting all that offence after not being on TV in months apart from a squash loss just last week is not good and it took away any interest I could have had in the match. It should have been a pure squash until Cena made a mistake and Ryder pulled out the 450 out of desperation, hit it, Cena kicked out because he wasn't weakened enough and then Cena won. The Stardust and Barrett matches felt much the same, but at least those guys are constantly on TV and could potentially be a champion. Ryder won't be. You're thinking of Kaientai and Brooklyn Brawler versus Triple H, I think, where Jericho helped them win the match by hitting Triple H with the Lionsault. TAKA versus Triple H in a title match was a different match, and if I recall, a really good one, worth checking out. But yeah, I can see why you wouldn't like it. Stuff like this is why I wish we had more competent commentators, to help sell these matches. You have a problem with ZACK RYDERS HAVING FUN! WIT DA GREATEST OF EASE! BLAH BLAH BLAH CHANGE THE CHANNEL!
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 20:02:34 GMT -5
Let me put it this way. In Rocky, Rocky didn't get a title match because he deserved it. On paper, he didn't. He was just a local to sell a match and to give Apollo Creed a novelty match. What Apollo couldn't have predicted is the fire it'd light under Rocky's ass to just about kill himself to try and win that boxing match, because he didn't deserve it, and would never get that chance again. Ryder had a chance against Cena, arguably the biggest name in wrestling right now, period. It should make him fight harder, it should make him pull out all the stops, it should make him push himself harder than he would against, like, Adam Rose, because even if he injured himself, it'd be worth it if he won. Don't get me wrong, I am glad he didn't win, but TAKA taking Triple H to the limit didn't kill Triple H, Kurt Angle took nearfalls from Crash Holly or Essa Rios without losing credibility, it's the Apollo Creed "This is going to be easy" humbling, because that's a story people tend to eat up. If I'm correct, the HHH/Taka match was a pure squash until Taka picked up a fluke win. That's different than Ryder getting in an even amount of offence with John Cena. I get your analogy, I just don't agree with it. Ryder getting all that offence after not being on TV in months apart from a squash loss just last week is not good and it took away any interest I could have had in the match. It should have been a pure squash until Cena made a mistake and Ryder pulled out the 450 out of desperation, hit it, Cena kicked out because he wasn't weakened enough and then Cena won. The Stardust and Barrett matches felt much the same, but at least those guys are constantly on TV and could potentially be a champion. Ryder won't be. TAKA actually went pretty even with Triple H, and lost due to distraction/Attitude Era f***ery. I don't disagree with your point, just here for the sake of accuracy.
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on May 26, 2015 20:11:51 GMT -5
So Ryder shouldn't be allowed to look strong ever? Not against Cena, no. If they want to build him up, do it against lower card guys. Him losing on superstars to having a back-and-forth match on Raw for ten minutes with John fricken Cena on Raw where he gets multiple near falls is very unbelievable. I went and got food because there was zero doubt about the ending. It'd be like it Barry Horowitz dominated a match with Hulk Hogan. One of my favorite Bret Hart matches was during his first or second run with the WWF title. It was on the either the Saturday or Sunday morning show that they had at the time against Barry Horowitz. Starting around that time, Barry was allowed to get in plenty of offense in his matches even though he always lost in the end. This match was against the world champ and Bret let him get in plenty of offense. Sure, the end of the match was never in doubt (5 Moves of Doom - Sharpshooter - Hart wins) but I got a small thrill out of seeing Barry F'n Horowitz getting a 2 count on the world champ. A few months later, Horowitz even started to win matches and appeared in a few PPVs.
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