cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,581
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Post by cjh on Jul 3, 2015 22:49:05 GMT -5
Injured WWE wrestlers do get paid. I don't know who said otherwise, but it's not true. WWE also pays for surgery when needed to repair an in-ring injury. Yeah, injured WWE wrestlers get paid. They get paid a fraction of what they'd be making if they were on the road and puts a lot of pressure on the wrestlers to rush back. And WWE doesn't pay for surgery out of the goodness of their hearts, they do it to avoid personal injury lawsuits. Lawsuits that would bring the independent contractor vs employee debate in front of a judge, which is that last thing WWE wants. Who's being pressured to come back early? I would think the guys who get booked the most (and therefore make the most money) would take the biggest hit income-wise when a injury happens. The guys who make the least money are the guys who already weren't getting booked on many house shows anyways. Unless negligence is involved, I think it would be hard to sue WWE or any promotion. On the indy scene, there is no dispute about wrestlers' IC status, and using this to take WWE to court over the IC/employee issue would be like taking them to court if WWE had vacation days written into wrestlers' contracts.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2015 23:03:24 GMT -5
Yeah, injured WWE wrestlers get paid. They get paid a fraction of what they'd be making if they were on the road and puts a lot of pressure on the wrestlers to rush back. And WWE doesn't pay for surgery out of the goodness of their hearts, they do it to avoid personal injury lawsuits. Lawsuits that would bring the independent contractor vs employee debate in front of a judge, which is that last thing WWE wants. Who's being pressured to come back early? I would think the guys who get booked the most (and therefore make the most money) would take the biggest hit income-wise when a injury happens. The guys who make the least money are the guys who already weren't getting booked on many house shows anyways. Unless negligence is involved, I think it would be hard to sue WWE or any promotion. On the indy scene, there is no dispute about wrestlers' IC status, and using this to take WWE to court over the IC/employee issue would be like taking them to court if WWE had vacation days written into wrestlers' contracts. Everyone gets rushed back. The most public, recent-ish example is CM Punk wrestling Ryback in a ladder match 3 or so weeks after knee surgery. As for the lawsuit, it's not a matter of negligence but rather workman's compensation insurance. Companies have to cover that for employees but not for independent contractors. If WWE doesn't pay for an injury suffered in their ring the wrestler can make a legal argument that because of WWE's restrictive contracts they are misclassified as independent contractors and WWE has the legal obligation to pay their medical bill. It's cheaper for WWE to just pay out of pocket for surgeries than provide everyone with full employee benefits.
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Jul 3, 2015 23:45:44 GMT -5
Kyros = Lionel Hutz.
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Post by xCompackx on Jul 4, 2015 0:19:53 GMT -5
Weird thing about CM Punk's situation is that the doctor is suing him for claiming that so it either really didn't happen the way Punk said, or this doctor is trying to somehow save face by suing (which would be pointless if it actually did happen since he'd just lose anyway). which is hilarious because Punk still has the dent on his ass to prove it,and I'm assuming his "Aggressive Jew Lawyer" can call Doctor Bateman to the stand, along with bringing some papers on the incident. There's also the video evidence of him shitting his pants mid match on Smackdown, and any live show footage they can cobble together from YouTube of him dry heaving on the apron (I've seen a few) Yeah, I'm really not sure what evidence they could possibly have to disprove Punk's claims. It's not like the Ryback thing where it's basically Punk's word against Ryback's; there's actual, real evidence that at least some of Punk's claims were true. I guess the doctor could just be looking to settle or something, but it's crazy to think that he'll actually win.
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Jul 4, 2015 2:08:31 GMT -5
which is hilarious because Punk still has the dent on his ass to prove it,and I'm assuming his "Aggressive Jew Lawyer" can call Doctor Bateman to the stand, along with bringing some papers on the incident. There's also the video evidence of him shitting his pants mid match on Smackdown, and any live show footage they can cobble together from YouTube of him dry heaving on the apron (I've seen a few) Yeah, I'm really not sure what evidence they could possibly have to disprove Punk's claims. It's not like the Ryback thing where it's basically Punk's word against Ryback's; there's actual, real evidence that at least some of Punk's claims were true. I guess the doctor could just be looking to settle or something, but it's crazy to think that he'll actually win. If anything, this lends all the credibility in the world to Punk's claims. When PUNK lawyered up and went after WWE for what he felt was owed to him, they cut him a check. When these folks did the same, WWE's lawyer came down on them like the fist of an angry god.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jul 4, 2015 2:33:14 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm really not sure what evidence they could possibly have to disprove Punk's claims. It's not like the Ryback thing where it's basically Punk's word against Ryback's; there's actual, real evidence that at least some of Punk's claims were true. I guess the doctor could just be looking to settle or something, but it's crazy to think that he'll actually win. If anything, this lends all the credibility in the world to Punk's claims. When PUNK lawyered up and went after WWE for what he felt was owed to him, they cut him a check. When these folks did the same, WWE's lawyer came down on them like the fist of an angry god. Didn't Punk just go after them for the unpaid salary and bonuses that they were withholding? That's quite a bit different from what all these guys are suing for.
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jakes
Trap-Jaw
Posts: 269
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Post by jakes on Jul 4, 2015 2:50:52 GMT -5
The Punk lawsuit is not so much about disputing his injury claims. It's more so about what he said about his dealing with the doctor and comments he made about him. Given that Punk won out in the royalty situation and he is someone who likes to shoot off his mouth I'm thinking they will not come after Punk unless they have something they know he can be nailed on. I think Punk made a mistake in running his mouth like he did on the Cabana podcast. This lawsuit wouldn't be happening if he just took what he won in the settlement, announced he was done with wrestling and moved on. Instead Punk had to shoot off his mouth cause the reality is he likes to make his fanbase think he is all high and mighty and that he always has the upper hand. Now he and his friend have to be dragged into this mess.
Although I do wonder if Punk was as bad off as he claimed with concussions then why is he getting into MMA?
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 4, 2015 6:59:47 GMT -5
You don't work, you don't get paid. What is someone with a concussion to do? They have families. There is a reason ALL professional sports league's pay their injured players. Hell, it's an American law that you pay your injured employees, but WWE contracts their wrestlers as "independent contractors". Vince has wasted millions alone on Linda's campaigns Again, where's Vince with the gun to these guys heads saying "BE A PRO WRESTLER, DAMMIT!" These guys made their choices. If you don't like the hand you're dealt, you're free to walk away from the table. I'm not saying you're doing this, but I can't stand this argument because it implies "This is just the way things are, take them or leave them". Anyone who watches professional hockey can tell you it has serious dangers involved: high speed skating combined with heavy physical contact and a small rubber projectile being driven 80-100 mph with curved sticks. Yet over the years the players of the NHL still banded into a union to demand basic safety minimums, free agency, comprehensive health care, guaranteed pensions, and other perks they never would've had otherwise, or might have only gotten in response to a slew of on-ice deaths, the same way that WWE wrestlers didn't get a "wellness program" or serious concussion analyses until Guerrero and Benoit died. Nobody "held a gun" to any hockey players' heads, but they still did these things to improve their quality of life. Vince can't hold a gun to anybody's head, but he can certainly say "I'm the biggest game in town, and nobody comes close: it's my way or the highway" on this stuff. That's taking advantage of workers. Beyond that, most guys who get to the WWE do so as the culmination of years of work toward that goal; to simply "walk away from the table" isn't quite so easy when you've spent years training, working on your craft, leaving your family behind, and now finally have the chance to make serious money on your passion. You walk away from that, it suddenly makes a lot of what you did before seem pointless. Corporate knows this, and knows how to play that off to their talent.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,581
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Post by cjh on Jul 4, 2015 8:37:44 GMT -5
Who's being pressured to come back early? I would think the guys who get booked the most (and therefore make the most money) would take the biggest hit income-wise when a injury happens. The guys who make the least money are the guys who already weren't getting booked on many house shows anyways. Unless negligence is involved, I think it would be hard to sue WWE or any promotion. On the indy scene, there is no dispute about wrestlers' IC status, and using this to take WWE to court over the IC/employee issue would be like taking them to court if WWE had vacation days written into wrestlers' contracts. Everyone gets rushed back. The most public, recent-ish example is CM Punk wrestling Ryback in a ladder match 3 or so weeks after knee surgery. As for the lawsuit, it's not a matter of negligence but rather workman's compensation insurance. Companies have to cover that for employees but not for independent contractors. If WWE doesn't pay for an injury suffered in their ring the wrestler can make a legal argument that because of WWE's restrictive contracts they are misclassified as independent contractors and WWE has the legal obligation to pay their medical bill. It's cheaper for WWE to just pay out of pocket for surgeries than provide everyone with full employee benefits. I meant coming back out of need to make money. Guys whose pay would go down the most due to missing ring time would also likely be a top guy with a larger guarantee. I don't know how far such a lawsuit would go as that person would be suing WWE for an instance of actually treating him/her like an IC. If someone did challenge it and won, WWE would likely just amend their contracts to say wrestlers can work for other companies, but WWE will stop using said wrestler if that happens.
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