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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 23:33:54 GMT -5
Haha us wrestling fans are a fair-minded and progressive bunch! But seriously 99% of the time that slight is often only ever thrown at women. I'd always get irritated by jokes about certain female wrestlers still being employed, and it would always go back to "huh huh, who's dick she suckin amirite". JTG was on the roster doing nothing for a decade, did anyone ever say "wonder who's pussy he's eatin' brah?"
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Aug 28, 2015 23:46:39 GMT -5
Haha us wrestling fans are a fair-minded and progressive bunch! But seriously 99% of the time that slight is often only ever thrown at women. I'd always get irritated by jokes about certain female wrestlers still being employed, and it would always go back to "huh huh, who's dick she suckin amirite". JTG was on the roster doing nothing for a decade, did anyone ever say "wonder who's pussy he's eatin' brah?" It was Rosa's. JTG and Rosa were part of an infinite loop of exchanging sexual favors with each other in order to stay employ.
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Raskovnik
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Post by Raskovnik on Aug 28, 2015 23:51:22 GMT -5
Haha us wrestling fans are a fair-minded and progressive bunch! But seriously 99% of the time that slight is often only ever thrown at women. I'd always get irritated by jokes about certain female wrestlers still being employed, and it would always go back to "huh huh, who's dick she suckin amirite". JTG was on the roster doing nothing for a decade, did anyone ever say "wonder who's pussy he's eatin' brah?" To be fair, no one said that because men run the WWE, so they'd probably have had to ask the same question for both people.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Aug 28, 2015 23:54:05 GMT -5
Haha us wrestling fans are a fair-minded and progressive bunch! But seriously 99% of the time that slight is often only ever thrown at women. I'd always get irritated by jokes about certain female wrestlers still being employed, and it would always go back to "huh huh, who's dick she suckin amirite". JTG was on the roster doing nothing for a decade, did anyone ever say "wonder who's pussy he's eatin' brah?" well there was jokes of him sleeping with pat patterson,take as you will
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 0:14:57 GMT -5
I'd always get irritated by jokes about certain female wrestlers still being employed, and it would always go back to "huh huh, who's dick she suckin amirite". JTG was on the roster doing nothing for a decade, did anyone ever say "wonder who's pussy he's eatin' brah?" To be fair, no one said that because men run the WWE, so they'd probably have had to ask the same question for both people. For some reason I blacked out and thought a company partly owned by a woman would have some women in power. I think there were a couple of female heads of talent relations, and maybe there's been some women on creative, but your point is true.
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Post by Wolf Hawkfield no1 NZ poster on Aug 29, 2015 0:31:19 GMT -5
The whole ting is a mess that needs to end but honestly the gaming press only has themselves to blame for gamergate lasting a year because if they hadn't been such arseholes the whole thing could be nipped at the bud and they would of been spared having all their dirty secrets exposed.
But as far as I'm concerned Zoe Quinn, Brianna Wu, Milo what his bloody name can all f*** off,
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Aug 29, 2015 0:56:58 GMT -5
I have no dog in this fight, but the only time I have ever felt compelled to call anyone an SJW was The Rising in TNA. If it wasn't for heel stables being a punchline in that organization, it would have been the best set-up for a heel turn.
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Post by knightrider01 on Aug 29, 2015 2:16:00 GMT -5
I could spend minutes of text explaining point by point and PROBABLY making ma few factual errors and MANY grammar errors,so it is more reasily for me to link this knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/quinnspiracy and let you form your opinion upon that.Or you can read the ex-boyfriend rant yourself thezoepost.wordpress.com/Also,him referred to knight,the man i mentioneted about in this thread. And yes there is evidence,which i think they show/mention there.I don`t really care much about talking about Quinn,but i don`t believe it is just a case of angry ex-boyfriend.It takes to the point some consider that he was victim of emotional abuse. Thanks for the link. Much of what is contained within is incomprehensible. If there is proof of trading sex for favours I didn't see it. But the post from the ex-boyfriend is telling. That's the part that really interests me. He really does seem like a guy who lashed out after being cheated on, and to me it seems incredibly dickish. It was proven that Quinn and Grayson did have a relationship of some kind and that he at one point even gave a large sum of money to her for an undisclosed reason. Some of the other developers she was accused of having these relationships with, wives came out and confirmed this also. But again everyone is focused on the Quinn part but should be focusing on the anger everyone has for the five men she may have slept with. Which is the reason why the original hashtag was dropped and everybody moved to GamerGate
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Post by knightrider01 on Aug 29, 2015 2:22:49 GMT -5
No they aren't. If you bother looking into it like I did, they aren't responsible for the harassement they were smeared with.
Let's just not generalize people, okay?
I don't think its generalizing, just logic. you know? Okay, let's say you've got a group? A group of maybe well-meaning people? Maybe, maybe not? Not the point. In every group comprised of that many people you're going to have people that act like unscrupulous jerks to varying degrees. Even GG people themselves say, "Hey, we've got people patrolling the hashtag making sure people aren't harassing people and reporting them to whomever! We're trying to weed out the baddies. " So wouldn't a more accurate response to the accusation that GG'ers harassed people is, "Yes, that was a problem early on and that sucks and we're VERY sorry about it, but the GG community worked and continues to work to weed them out." Instead of flat denial and counter-accusations. Because, and I say this as earnestly as possible, flat-out denying it just makes the entire community seem a bit childish and delusional. When a junior or even ancillary member of ANY kind of organization makes these kinds of threats then the organization takes responsibility, takes corrective measures, and distances themselves from said member. I know everyone being anonymous (and the "requirements for membership" VERY loose) makes that hard, but at least acknowledging it would a good first step Every group makes mistakes along the way. It doesn't make them bad, just human. Accepting that would be healthy for any group. Except the only thing that makes this a group is a hashtag and unless I'm mistake there is no way to stop people on twitter from using a hashtag. I mean the only GamerGate can do to combat this is reactionary and can't be proactive in stopping it. If this group of individuals was together in an office or similar environment I could see it, but on a hash tag its impossible. So because of this I can't see people taking responsibility or blame for something some one else did. Even then your argument states have if this was a common occurrence, and I'm sorry but after spending the last year on twitter, reddit, and 8chan, I just haven't. Maybe its the block bot or something else.
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Post by knightrider01 on Aug 29, 2015 2:26:35 GMT -5
And that culture war against the boogeymen of "SJW's" and feminists is as much a part of Gamergate's identity as wanting games journalism to not be a complete joke. As much as I like and would support the latter, there's no way in hell I could support any movement that includes the former. This isn't from any propaganda spread by the big bad evil media but from firsthand experience with members of the movement on social media. And I'm not saying any people are doing this here, but it amazes me how these people continue to perpetuate the misconception, if not outright lie, that third wave feminism is some radical, ultra-militant movement ruining "good" feminism when it's the most inclusive philosophy of mainstream feminism yet, specifically introduced to be more concerned with issues of non-white women, queer women, and trans women. Until you have a different opinion than them or bring up things happening to women outside the USA, then it stops being all inclusive, more HIVE mind. But hey, who says that isn't some form of inclusivity.
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LuciCypher
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Post by LuciCypher on Aug 29, 2015 2:31:17 GMT -5
The term 'SJW' fulfils the same function as 'white cis male oppressor' does, but for the other side. tbh I don't care if anyone supports or opposes Gamergate because it's a non-issue to me, I'm just here for the laffs, I have to say this is probably the only forum I have ever seen where both sides have been able to civilly discuss it without resorting to mud-throwing. Good for youuu
I know, right?
12 pages and still going strong! I knew this board could handle a GG topic. We're one of the only boards that allow free humor after all.
I'd agree it's devolved into that. Though it does have an actual meaning and it seems it's been lost. People mistakenly assume those who use it are against progress which isn't the case. Though often time it's misused and used by those against progress. Back in the livejournal days it referred to someone that would take their "activist further" which meant they would doxx those that they disagreed with and such. The original Social Justice Warrior were on livejournal "tumblr" before "tumblr" so to speak. No to get political but after it evolved to refer to those of a radial or extreme left political view. The simplest way to put it would be what back in the 60s was called the "New Left". Where you had people like Tom Lehar who agreed with their politics but dislike the aesthetics and the counter culture. Which he expressed in his song "The Folk Song Army". I hope that's not too political I'm just trying to give context and history.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 2:54:11 GMT -5
I just read what this was about on wiki.
Unsurprisingly, I think it's stupid. All of it.
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LuciCypher
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Post by LuciCypher on Aug 29, 2015 3:07:22 GMT -5
Has anybody here watched the YouTube series "Why Are You So Angry?". I think it's 6 parts, but I need to double-check. It's a very interesting look at the whole thing, and tries to understand the mindset that went into it. It obviously has its bias (everything under the sun does), but it's very, very interesting stuff. I watched it and had serious problems with it with most of it being built around a strawman character. Onto the fact that it dismissed those that have legitimate criticism of Anita and again made the comment that her critics were these "White straight cis males" and that those that were mad at the whole thing were mad cause she was going to shatter their innocence. Plus the whole "Angry Jack" character didn't sit well with me. I'm not part of those demographics that make up this "angry jack" but the whole thing just made me uneasy. Plus people were mad at Tim Schaffer for the sockpuppet thing cause it was boiling things down again to the aforementioned "straight cis white" males.
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wisdomwizard
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Post by wisdomwizard on Aug 29, 2015 9:44:33 GMT -5
I just read what this was about on wiki. Unsurprisingly, I think it's stupid. All of it.
Well, the people who run wiki are biased, and one of them is an anti-GG who was paid to make it that way so that wasn't the source you should have used. If you want a better neutral source look it up on Know You Meme. There's also wiki.gamergate.me if you want it explained by someone in GG themselves.
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kidglov3s
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Post by kidglov3s on Aug 29, 2015 9:53:09 GMT -5
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 29, 2015 10:01:49 GMT -5
Has anybody here watched the YouTube series "Why Are You So Angry?". I think it's 6 parts, but I need to double-check. It's a very interesting look at the whole thing, and tries to understand the mindset that went into it. It obviously has its bias (everything under the sun does), but it's very, very interesting stuff. I watched it and had serious problems with it with most of it being built around a strawman character. Onto the fact that it dismissed those that have legitimate criticism of Anita and again made the comment that her critics were these "White straight cis males" and that those that were mad at the whole thing were mad cause she was going to shatter their innocence. Plus the whole "Angry Jack" character didn't sit well with me. I'm not part of those demographics that make up this "angry jack" but the whole thing just made me uneasy. Plus people were mad at Tim Schaffer for the sockpuppet thing cause it was boiling things down again to the aforementioned "straight cis white" males. I think where it was right on was that "Angry Jack", while clearly a stand-in, was meant to represent the group that was undoubtedly the majority of GamerGate - in this case, yes, young, straight, cis men. There were certainly other people involved, of course, but I think it'd be misleading to pretend that wasn't the clear majority. All we have to do is go back to the early 90s and the marketing push by Sega and Nintendo during the 16-bit era; it was abundantly clear here in the States that their target demographic was young, white men. Again, does that mean other people didn't play games? Of course it doesn't, but it was the audience the industry was clearly going after, and the audience that was most clearly catered to from around 1990 and for at least the next 20 years afterward. And think about the sources of anger - a text-based game about human emotion, articles about the death of the "lonely basement dweller" stereotype, a video series that gave what amounted to university-101 level feminist analysis of the platform...all things that ran counter to the marketing and narrative that had been pushed since the early 90s (games are for boys, games need violence, there are people out there who want to take your games away (justified, given some of the "GAMES MAKE KIDS INTO KILLERS!" idiots out there), etc.). There are claims to be made about wanting the video game journalism industry to "grow up" and to take itself seriously, but in a world where even the political media is accused of much more serious things, it's hard to believe that gaming journalism alone could be the source of the level of vitriol, harassment, and pure 'net-fueled anger was saw last year. Again, it's just something that happens over and over again throughout history: take a group that has been catered to for a long time, begin practices that seem to erode some of their long-time benefits in order to integrate another group that has spent time being underrepresented/not catered to, and there will inevitably be a backlash. It's a cycle as old as society. It doesn't mean that all members of the hegemonic group are evil, doesn't mean they all intend for others to be underrepresented, but it's human nature to see things like one's privileges (yes, there's that word) being chipped away at and not feel resentment, particularly when the group seeking equality might use language that puts you in a defensive position ("Hey, I'm not a racist/sexist/homophobe/etc.!"). I think it's perfectly fair to use "Angry Jack" as a representation of that, given how often we, as humans, go through cycles like that - its preponderance makes Jack an archetype, in a way. As for Anita, not to jump down that rabbit hole, but based on nothing besides watching her videos, again, they're essentially Feminist Theory 101; not much in the way of revolutionary thinking, not much that really pushes the envelope, not much that you wouldn't hear in a typical undergraduate college class room any day of the week. That isn't to belittle her work (it's a pretty solid breakthrough to apply even basic feminist theory to a young artistic platform like video games), and it also isn't to belittle any criticisms anybody might have of her work: the point of academic criticism is that your own critiques can be discussed back at you as part of an ongoing conversation (though I can fully understand why she'd shut off comment sections on her videos, given the level of everything from bitter arguments to threats that get thrown around whenever she pops up). But unfortunately, those who want to criticize her work also have to understand that there's a very, VERY loud vocal minority that have made her life pretty nightmarish for a few years now, and that "there's a time and place" kind of applies when it comes to wanting to have those constructive criticism conversations in the face of a snarling rage dragon that threatens people with doxxing and rape threats.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 10:02:29 GMT -5
ADF is what happen if Chris-Chan was even more f*** up in head.
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Post by Cyno on Aug 29, 2015 11:51:41 GMT -5
And that culture war against the boogeymen of "SJW's" and feminists is as much a part of Gamergate's identity as wanting games journalism to not be a complete joke. As much as I like and would support the latter, there's no way in hell I could support any movement that includes the former. This isn't from any propaganda spread by the big bad evil media but from firsthand experience with members of the movement on social media. And I'm not saying any people are doing this here, but it amazes me how these people continue to perpetuate the misconception, if not outright lie, that third wave feminism is some radical, ultra-militant movement ruining "good" feminism when it's the most inclusive philosophy of mainstream feminism yet, specifically introduced to be more concerned with issues of non-white women, queer women, and trans women. Until you have a different opinion than them or bring up things happening to women outside the USA, then it stops being all inclusive, more HIVE mind. But hey, who says that isn't some form of inclusivity. And this is exactly the kind of post that turned me against Gamergate.
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wisdomwizard
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Post by wisdomwizard on Aug 29, 2015 12:17:41 GMT -5
Until you have a different opinion than them or bring up things happening to women outside the USA, then it stops being all inclusive, more HIVE mind. But hey, who says that isn't some form of inclusivity. And this is exactly the kind of post that turned me against Gamergate.
Why exactly? You deny that there is a problem amongst them? Might want to ask what Briana Wu's friend Claire Schumann about it.
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Post by Cyno on Aug 29, 2015 12:24:08 GMT -5
Because it's blatant strawmanning and highlights the intellectually dishonest methods that tend to be used by GGers.
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