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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 10:28:40 GMT -5
I didn't even realize GamerGate was still a thing. I was going to post a big screed about my thoughts on the matter but I see others have taken care of over the past 16 pages. But suffice it to say, to me GG is an embarrassment that almost makes me ashamed to be a gamer. The only good thing to come from it was that it prompted me to get the "SJW to skeleton" add-on for Chrome. Seeing shit like "the hordes of skeletons trying to destroy gaming" never gets old. I tried to play some Hatred the other day and a skeleton walked in and CENSORED me. Gaming is dead. Actually it's about ethics in hyper-realistic blood.
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wisdomwizard
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Post by wisdomwizard on Aug 30, 2015 10:39:25 GMT -5
That study WAS about Gamer Gate, but since it's not good enough for some I'll drop that for now. At least I attempted to find a source to back up my claims that GG was smeared and are not a harassment group. No one, even in this thread has ever managed to provide proof that GG was behind all the threats Quinn or Sarkessian received. Which continues to this day to be the whole crux of the Anti-GGs in why they oppose them.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 10:53:59 GMT -5
That study WAS about Gamer Gate, but since it's not good enough for some I'll drop that for now. At least I attempted to find a source to back up my claims that GG was smeared and are not a harassment group. No one, even in this thread has ever managed to provide proof that GG was behind all the threats Quinn or Sarkessian received. Which continues to this day to be the whole crux of the Anti-GGs in why they oppose them. I only got involved on the anti side because I don't think anyone deserves to be harassed. And then I suddenly get harassed by people claiming to be part of GG, because I'm transgender. If you want to convince me of anything personally, you need to do a lot better.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 11:16:19 GMT -5
That study WAS about Gamer Gate, but since it's not good enough for some I'll drop that for now. At least I attempted to find a source to back up my claims that GG was smeared and are not a harassment group. No one, even in this thread has ever managed to provide proof that GG was behind all the threats Quinn or Sarkessian received. Which continues to this day to be the whole crux of the Anti-GGs in why they oppose them. From the study itself Let's pretend this was a good study, which its not. And that its only about Gamergate, which its not. The above quotes PROVE two things. 1) This study comprised a "much wider range of harassment than the GG controversy alone." Which means in literally tried to include EVERY instance of harassment on Twitter, not just gaming. If it were JUST gaming, the % of GG harassment would be MUCH higher. 2) The study states that GG harassment was a SUBSTANTIAL source harassment. Which means than even for accounting EVERY type of harassment potentially existing on Twitter, GG is still the source of a substantial amount, according to the study. 3) 12% of total online harassment (not just gamer harassment or game-related harassment, but TOTAL online harassment of all types, beyond gaming as well) could be attributed to GG. To reiterate what I said earlier, I wouldn't wipe my butt with this survey, let alone use it to prove a pro-GG point! haha This study proves nothing about GG harassment NOT existing. It actually proves it DOES exist, substantially more than most other single kinds of harassment. It literally proves the OPPOSITE of what you're saying it does. But again, I don't think its a well done survey in general. I just think its hilarious that someone would do such a poor job of reading this survey that they'd actually try and use it to prove GG DIDN'T harass people. BTW, this has nothing to do with GG, anti-GG ideology or the media "bias" or all the silly stuff, this is simply pointing out that if you're going to use a survey to prove ANYTHING, be sure to understand what its actually saying.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Aug 30, 2015 11:28:28 GMT -5
That study WAS about Gamer Gate, but since it's not good enough for some I'll drop that for now. At least I attempted to find a source to back up my claims that GG was smeared and are not a harassment group. No one, even in this thread has ever managed to provide proof that GG was behind all the threats Quinn or Sarkessian received. Which continues to this day to be the whole crux of the Anti-GGs in why they oppose them. I only got involved on the anti side because I don't think anyone deserves to be harassed. And then I suddenly get harassed by people claiming to be part of GG, because I'm transgender. If you want to convince me of anything personally, you need to do a lot better. I have seen that happen from both sides. Someone claims to want to not get involved,be neutral,suddenly there is antis flocking calling then all kinds of stuff.It is the sad truth of the internet and human nature that hopefully one day will be gone
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 30, 2015 11:59:44 GMT -5
That study WAS about Gamer Gate, but since it's not good enough for some I'll drop that for now. At least I attempted to find a source to back up my claims that GG was smeared and are not a harassment group. No one, even in this thread has ever managed to provide proof that GG was behind all the threats Quinn or Sarkessian received. Which continues to this day to be the whole crux of the Anti-GGs in why they oppose them. The problem isn't that it's "not good enough," even though it's a fairly weak survey in terms of power. The problem is that you're using it to try to say something different from what it actually says. You claimed it was "Concrete proof that Gamer Gate was NOT responsible for any harassment that the anti-crowd accused them of" (emphasis mine) when the survey actually said that, among their respondents, GG was associated with a small percentage of all harassment across all Twitter. It did not say it they found no reports of harassment, they said it was a small percentage of it in relation to all Twitter. I haven't followed this closely, but I don't think anyone is seriously making the claim that all twitter harassment is linked to GG and we are all smart enough to know that small percentage is not the same thing as none. You can't take a fairly low strength study, twist it to say it menas something different from what it means, then get upset when people point out these things. You did attempt to find a source, kudos for that, but you attempted to twist it into being something that proved you right when it didn't. If anything, anti-GG could have used it as proof that GG was behind some of the Twitter harassment.
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wisdomwizard
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Post by wisdomwizard on Aug 30, 2015 14:13:26 GMT -5
I only got involved on the anti side because I don't think anyone deserves to be harassed. And then I suddenly get harassed by people claiming to be part of GG, because I'm transgender. If you want to convince me of anything personally, you need to do a lot better. I have seen that happen from both sides. Someone claims to want to not get involved,be neutral,suddenly there is antis flocking calling then all kinds of stuff.It is the sad truth of the internet and human nature that hopefully one day will be gone
This is sadly true. Look up what happened to Total Bisuit, Brad Wardell, and WoW staffer Mark Kern. In Kern's case he was neutral but because he said that maybe not everyone in GG condone or support rape or death threats, he was unfairly attacked repeatedly because him not calling them out was seen as "condoning" the threats.
Star, there are plenty of those within GG that I saw who aren't in favor of harassment. Yet, when they try to ask certain people who was harassing and daring to disagree with them they get tarred and feathered.
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wisdomwizard
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Post by wisdomwizard on Aug 30, 2015 14:15:20 GMT -5
That study WAS about Gamer Gate, but since it's not good enough for some I'll drop that for now. At least I attempted to find a source to back up my claims that GG was smeared and are not a harassment group. No one, even in this thread has ever managed to provide proof that GG was behind all the threats Quinn or Sarkessian received. Which continues to this day to be the whole crux of the Anti-GGs in why they oppose them. The problem isn't that it's "not good enough," even though it's a fairly weak survey in terms of power. The problem is that you're using it to try to say something different from what it actually says. You claimed it was "Concrete proof that Gamer Gate was NOT responsible for any harassment that the anti-crowd accused them of" (emphasis mine) when the survey actually said that, among their respondents, GG was associated with a small percentage of all harassment across all Twitter. It did not say it they found no reports of harassment, they said it was a small percentage of it in relation to all Twitter. I haven't followed this closely, but I don't think anyone is seriously making the claim that all twitter harassment is linked to GG and we are all smart enough to know that small percentage is not the same thing as none. You can't take a fairly low strength study, twist it to say it menas something different from what it means, then get upset when people point out these things. You did attempt to find a source, kudos for that, but you attempted to twist it into being something that proved you right when it didn't. If anything, anti-GG could have used it as proof that GG was behind some of the Twitter harassment.
I wasn't' "twisting" it into anything, in my opinion it does support evidence in favor of GG. But I don't want to go back forth on this, so again I'm dropping it.
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 30, 2015 14:26:14 GMT -5
I wasn't' "twisting" it into anything, in my opinion it does support evidence in favor of GG. But I don't want to go back forth on this, so again I'm dropping it. Hard to see it another way, to be honest. You seem to either be misreading it or you're trying to make it say something differently. Your exact words were. "Concrete proof that Gamer Gate was NOT responsible for any harassment that the anti-crowd accused them of" The words of the survey you brought up. "Reports to WAM! constitute a much wider range of harassment than the GamerGate controversy alone: 88% of allegedly harassing accounts (n=538) were not linked with GamerGate." Meaning that 12% of the allegedly harassing accounts were linked. 12% is not 0. It isn't 50%, or 75% sure, but it's not zero. There's no room for opinion in that statement, it's pure fact, the study found that some online harassment was linked to pro-GG hashtags no matter how much you seem to want to insist that they're blameless in the world. Now, yes, anyone who says that GG is responsible for the majority of internet harassment is very likely delusional in the first place, but does the survey show that there's no harassment on the part of people linked to GG? No. The study factually said something different. And it all seems to come down to you wanting to try to show that there wasn't any harassment, when your own source says otherwise. The only support the article gives yoy was that it constituted a minority of harassment on Twitter, which shouldnt' surprise anyone because Gamergate isn't exactly a huge movement. I mean, sure, drop it if you wish, that doesn't really make this interpretation a matter of opinion.
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Post by Cyno on Aug 30, 2015 15:12:11 GMT -5
I have seen that happen from both sides. Someone claims to want to not get involved,be neutral,suddenly there is antis flocking calling then all kinds of stuff.It is the sad truth of the internet and human nature that hopefully one day will be gone
This is sadly true. Look up what happened to Total Bisuit, Brad Wardell, and WoW staffer Mark Kern. In Kern's case he was neutral but because he said that maybe not everyone in GG condone or support rape or death threats, he was unfairly attacked repeatedly because him not calling them out was seen as "condoning" the threats. Mark Kern hasn't been an employee of Blizzard, much less a WoW dev, for nearly a decade. Also, Kern is a pretty big piece of garbage for reasons entirely unrelated to Gamergate, though he already had a pretty big chip on his shoulder for the gaming press because they reported on his incompetence and assholery as CEO of his failed startup after he left Blizzard. www.techinasia.com/firefall-mark-kern-sacked-the9-story/www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/1tuf3c/this_is_why_mark_kern_was_removed_as_ceo_by_red_5And no, he was doing a lot more than just suggesting that not everyone in GG supports/condones rape threats. www.zenofdesign.com/mark-kern-really-wants-gamergators-to-be-able-to-yell-at-harassment-victims/Defending him isn't worth your time. He is a child in an adult's body.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 30, 2015 16:04:46 GMT -5
I did think it was pretty funny when Quinn went undercover on one of the message boards where a lot of the GG "ringleaders" would meet and discuss strategies, took screen caps, and then published everything. Kind of killed the whole "ethics" part of it; a real issue that warrants addressing, but GG was never the "movement" meant to make a dent in it. Actually that was a 4chan chatlog and she nitpick through a couple week worth of chatlog for "proof" and when I mean "proof" she actually edit and took stuff out if context to suit her. m.imgur.com/a/Mfh61Here a imgur album showing the difference between the actually chatlog and the screencaps that quinn posted as "proof" ...There's nothing in there that makes the ringleaders look any better. In fact, it's even more terrifying.
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Post by knightrider01 on Aug 30, 2015 17:44:42 GMT -5
Now whether or not Mark Kern is an asshole is another discussion. But that zen article is a load of crap. Mark Kern is not trying to make it easier for harassers to harass. If anything the block list does that easily enough, seeing how it never quite seems to get the job done. Hell even ISIS uses that crappy thing. All Mark Kern tried to do was heal a rift that was growing after that horrendous SVU episode came out. You know the one were gamers can just hack into stuff at a whim and are basically the Joker. An episode that even places like Kotaku called crap. You know what Mark Kern got for that: harassment. Here was a man looking for peace and the "good" guys attacked, labelling him things like terrorist, misogynist, and other horrible things. Hell he was added to the block list because again he didn't agree with everything one particular side claimed to say. And finally after months of this attack he forced himself to come out progg. Also please don't use Randi Harper has some sort of good person who is under attack, especially if Mark Kern's past is enough to label him a child in an adult's body.
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Post by knightrider01 on Aug 30, 2015 17:48:16 GMT -5
Actually that was a 4chan chatlog and she nitpick through a couple week worth of chatlog for "proof" and when I mean "proof" she actually edit and took stuff out if context to suit her. m.imgur.com/a/Mfh61Here a imgur album showing the difference between the actually chatlog and the screencaps that quinn posted as "proof" ...There's nothing in there that makes the ringleaders look any better. In fact, it's even more terrifying. Yeah it sure was lucky that Zoey was there for the evil 4chan to admit all there plans to jump start this thing. I mean 4chan is the most evil vile place on the net. Also I will say this again. You can label GamerGate an harassment campaign to destroy feminism and progress all you want. But unfortunately an organization that has been around a long time, the SPJ, says otherwise. So who are we suppose to believe in this situation. Gawker, random message board people, or an official organization. {Spoiler}Gawker
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Post by Cyno on Aug 30, 2015 18:02:40 GMT -5
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Big Poppa Pumpkin
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Post by Big Poppa Pumpkin on Aug 30, 2015 18:07:31 GMT -5
No offence but if any of you think your posts are going to change anybody's mind on this you're deluded, this whole thing kicked off ages ago and everybody who cares enough to know about it has made up their mind where they stand on it, so the only people who will agree with you will be the ones that already agreed with you, the thread will eventually die or get locked, and nothing will have changed.
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Post by knightrider01 on Aug 30, 2015 18:11:08 GMT -5
You know you're right this organization that has been around for over a century is a strawman. I mean of course it's so clear now. Trying to convince me was the wrong move, but pictures are worth a thousand words. So again thank you. Also I know this is me just banging my head against a wall. But in all fairness I will spend my time how I want.
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wisdomwizard
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Post by wisdomwizard on Aug 30, 2015 18:35:21 GMT -5
Because that's not what you tried to do with Mark Kern.
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Post by Cyno on Aug 30, 2015 18:41:01 GMT -5
No offence but if any of you think your posts are going to change anybody's mind on this you're deluded, this whole thing kicked off ages ago and everybody who cares enough to know about it has made up their mind where they stand on it, so the only people who will agree with you will be the ones that already agreed with you, the thread will eventually die or get locked, and nothing will have changed. Know what, you're right. All this thread has done is reinforce my opinions on Gamergate. I'm done.
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wisdomwizard
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Post by wisdomwizard on Aug 30, 2015 18:41:18 GMT -5
No offence but if any of you think your posts are going to change anybody's mind on this you're deluded, this whole thing kicked off ages ago and everybody who cares enough to know about it has made up their mind where they stand on it, so the only people who will agree with you will be the ones that already agreed with you, the thread will eventually die or get locked, and nothing will have changed.
I'm certain you don't, the problem is a number of people have been savaged online and have been lumped in with the actions of trolls. Gamer Gate is not a hate group, harassment group, or what have you.
If anything, we should discuss whether or not there really is a sexism problem in games or game culture. I for one don't think there is. Things could be better in some regards, but it's not as much a widespread problems as the game journalism sites make it out.
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Push R Truth
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Post by Push R Truth on Aug 30, 2015 19:20:46 GMT -5
This thread makes me so happy this place has the politics/religion rule. It's nice to have a little slice of the internet without it. I know it takes a lot of work from the mods and probably some posters, but thank you so much.
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