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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Sept 24, 2015 7:03:36 GMT -5
Like I said in the ratings thread, there's no one quick fix for this. Whether it be more legends, firing that guy you hate, pushing that guy like, out-and-out fanservice, whatever... Doesn't matter. Whatever needs to be done has to be a long-term project that they're willing to commit to and take some short-term hits for to get long-term prosperity.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Sept 24, 2015 7:06:41 GMT -5
It's almost as if having a boring, stale, and predictable product causes people to stop watching.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Sept 24, 2015 7:20:56 GMT -5
Solution... push Big Show and Kane!
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Johnny Flamingo
Hank Scorpio
Killing the business one post at a time
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Post by Johnny Flamingo on Sept 24, 2015 7:35:29 GMT -5
I find the problem with WWE is that creative get way too "cute" with the storylines.
They have good "simple" storylines in place but they do so much with them that they turn what should be easy angles into overbooked mess.
Seth Rollins - Kane should be easy. Kane is the veteran who feels disrespected because everyone thinks he is washed up and he wan't to prove them wrong. At the same time he feels that Seth doesn't appreciate what he did for him and openly mocked him.
Seth is the arrogant young cocky champion who believes he is the best of all time but is oblivious to the fact that he is only champion due to circumstance.
It should be pretty simple straightforward booking that is an easy feud to build on. Have a few promos explaining eah ones motivation and maybe a backstage or in-ring pull-apart brawl and you are set.
Moving on the the women it was such an easy angle as well. Have Nikki say that she is the best and act exceptionally cocky and disrespectfull towards the NXT women. Have her set a gauntlet and make the NXT women go through the divas to get to her. Nikki never gives them credit and ducks them at every turn. She sets the record by avoiding competition before finally getting beaten at NOC.
Such easy booking that starts small and builds to a crest. Easy to follow on TV and easy to get invested in. Instead the anlges are needlessly complicated and aimless. There is little build due to too much interaction and inconsequential sequences. Because nothing really matters in the end there is little reason to watch Raw.
Such a simple fix and it is amazing how much creative overthinks things.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2015 7:36:31 GMT -5
Like I said in the ratings thread, there's no one quick fix for this. Whether it be more legends, firing that guy you hate, pushing that guy like, out-and-out fanservice, whatever... Doesn't matter. Whatever needs to be done has to be a long-term project that they're willing to commit to and take some short-term hits for to get long-term prosperity. NXT seems to be that project. They just need a better direction on the main roster to maximize the talent they're grooming down there. I hate to harp on it again, but the way they've done Kevin Owens is a perfect example of not maximizing someone. You have him beat Cena, have it double negated, and now he's in a midcard feud with Ryback without much heat to it. They literally made a new star, and said "nah".
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Sept 24, 2015 7:43:22 GMT -5
I have a bold solution for them which can be summed up in three words, 'No More McMahons'.
For nearly 20 years now, the product has been booked around and for the benefit of the McMahon clan and that needs to stop in order to stop the rot, they need to start booking for the audience, both live and on TV. Little by little the audience is ebbing away and they're doing nothing to stop it, nothing new aside from having Steph and Hunter pat their own backs on tv, while it's easy to blame the changing TV landscape, NBC aren't going to sit there forever while they head toward a 2.5 rating. Stopping ratings decline is an easier task than growing your audience share by the .5 needed to get the same kind of deal from the networks when that contract is up for renewal.
They need to isolate Vince, Steph, Dunn and Hunter from the creative process, get Heyman and a bunch of people who are under 45 and have actual experience in the ring to be the new brain trust, creative wise, Jimmy Jacobs was a good start, get guys like Christian, Bryan, heck, make a play for Konnan should he ever be on the outs with Triple A just to get some fresh ideas from outside the North American wrestling bubble and have someone like Mantell, Regal or even Kevin Sullivan be the management/network filter, someone to nix the worst ideas. I'm not saying relieve the McMahons of all their duties, of course, just have them stick to what they do best, the day to day running of the company/NXT/production, their contribution should be to ask 'How can we make this work?', not 'How can I use this popular angle for self aggrandisement?' which has been the hallmark of Hunter and Steph since they gained power in the early 2000s.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,294
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Post by Push R Truth on Sept 24, 2015 7:45:55 GMT -5
Bring back Sid for the Legends RAW and have him powerbomb the shit out of some worthless jobbers like Ryder.
Ratings will skyrocket
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Post by Captain & Diet on Sept 24, 2015 8:32:24 GMT -5
I dunno, maybe don't write television intended to make a 70 year old man-child pop.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,301
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Post by Woo on Sept 24, 2015 8:46:33 GMT -5
This is beautiful.
For decades they've been dismissing their online fans, i.e. their most dedicated fanbase, as whiners while the WWE and WWE defenders have said "You are all bitching, but you will be watching next week". It turns out a great many actually aren't watching next week!
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 24, 2015 8:50:56 GMT -5
I'm honestly curious how much of this can also be attributed to people just watching on Hulu or waiting for Raw to post on WWE Network.
I mean, the numbers dropping doesn't shock me; people have increasingly stopped caring about wrestling since the end of the "Wars" era. But some of these drops are precipitous, and I wonder if some of those not watching on USA are instead watching via the legal online methods.
Still, that brings up an interesting point: Vince knows that a sweetheart deal with USA/NBC is key to his company's bottom line, yet creating the network or making a deal with Hulu means potentially threatening that deal due to an increase in viewership. Risk worth taking?
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
Too Salty
Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Sept 24, 2015 8:59:37 GMT -5
What did Alvarez say specifically?
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
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Member is Online
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Sept 24, 2015 9:00:19 GMT -5
Well, on the one hand, ratings for scripted TV in general have been dropping precipitously for years. On the other hand, ratings for live "events" have been rising steadily with people wanting to "participate" on social media and the like.. It really is hard to see where WWE fits into that, especially when the social media "reach" of the company seems to be at or near record highs as ratings have declined. Maybe they just need to recognize TV ratings don't mean nearly as much these days. It has a high presence sure, but is it an important one? Their youtube is 90% matches they've just shown and promo packages, youtube's all about interaction and community, there's none of that. The standout social media guys, how much of that is reflected on TV? There's a huge disconnect, they have a big presanse, but it's not a relevant one so it's not going to help them as much.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Sept 24, 2015 9:02:33 GMT -5
Still, that brings up an interesting point: Vince knows that a sweetheart deal with USA/NBC is key to his company's bottom line, yet creating the network or making a deal with Hulu means potentially threatening that deal due to an increase in viewership. Risk worth taking? Hulu is owned in part by NBC so alienating them in the hopes of an amazing deal with Hulu would damage both relationships.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Sept 24, 2015 9:05:03 GMT -5
"Vince, Raw's ratings have dipped below Destination America's Bigfoot/TNA crossover special!"
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trollrogue
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Nashville City of Music!!
Posts: 5,609
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Post by trollrogue on Sept 24, 2015 9:16:41 GMT -5
Nielsen Ratings were inaccurate and unreliable even before the advent of the DVR, now it's just rather sad that people still even think it matters to the point where commercials and ad strategies centered around broadcast TV spots actually honestly believe the 'old ways' of American broadcasting still work in the post-new media era.
Far too many great television shows have been cancelled for 'low ratings' that turned out to be top-selling DVD box sets when their series run was unceremoniously ended despite the HUGE cult status (that never watched live tv). Social media success is the best/only measure of actual success a company needs in this day and age, I don't know why people insist on doing things only the dinosaurs of the entertainment industry still benefit from.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Sept 24, 2015 9:28:20 GMT -5
How can anyone tell?
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Post by Rolent Tex on Sept 24, 2015 9:28:57 GMT -5
Here's a damn idea. Put two creative teams in place for Raw and Smackdown, they work independently of each other and compete against each other and answer only to Vince. If ratings go up, bonuses will be paid. Do a roster split again but keep the same amount of titles. If TNA isn't competition, create competition yourself to get the ratings and creative juices popping.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Sept 24, 2015 9:30:48 GMT -5
They need to isolate Vince, Steph, Dunn and Hunter from the creative process, get Heyman and a bunch of people who are under 45 and have actual experience in the ring to be the new brain trust, creative wise, Jimmy Jacobs was a good start, get guys like Christian, Bryan, heck, make a play for Konnan should he ever be on the outs with Triple A just to get some fresh ideas from outside the North American wrestling bubble and have someone like Mantell, Regal or even Kevin Sullivan be the management/network filter, someone to nix the worst ideas. I'm not saying relieve the McMahons of all their duties, of course, just have them stick to what they do best, the day to day running of the company/NXT/production, their contribution should be to ask 'How can we make this work?', not 'How can I use this popular angle for self aggrandisement?' which has been the hallmark of Hunter and Steph since they gained power in the early 2000s. But even things like that tie to a similar problem- the cupboard is bare for a good braintrust in the business. A lot of the names mentioned as people to be a brain trust creatively have experience as performers, but are unknowns for how good they are creatively, and many of the others- Mantell, Kevin Sullivan, Konnan- are aging as much as the McMahons are or more. The Jacobs signing was a good one there, mostly because he was also one of the few people on the indy scene who was known for being a notably good creative mind. The way indy wrestling is, by and large, predominantly about dream matches instead of big angles hurts things as well- after Jacobs and people like Zayn/Owens (who weren't bookers, but at least managed to craft an overarching feud for themselves that spanned the entire indy scene), there's very few top indy promotions built solely on storylines and angles instead of the workrate of their talent...and Mike Quackenbush (the only undeniable booker in that regard) isn't about to walk out on CHIKARA for any price. Even past "getting people for a brain trust" doesn't work as well in this era...when the level of braintrust has gone so poorly that "Have WWE reach out to Grey Dog Software and make a worldwide EWR/TEW diary contest, hiring the winners to Creative" may be the BEST OPTION WWE would have, that should say just how dire things are.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2015 9:31:42 GMT -5
Nielsen Ratings were inaccurate and unreliable even before the advent of the DVR, now it's just rather sad that people still even think it matters to the point where commercials and ad strategies centered around broadcast TV spots actually honestly believe the 'old ways' of American broadcasting still work in the post-new media era. Far too many great television shows have been cancelled for 'low ratings' that turned out to be top-selling DVD box sets when their series run was unceremoniously ended despite the HUGE cult status (that never watched live tv). Social media success is the best/only measure of actual success a company needs in this day and age, I don't know why people insist on doing things only the dinosaurs of the entertainment industry still benefit from. Social Media is wildly inaccurate. If it was a true barometer, WWE would be bigger and have more fans than the NFL, and we all know how untrue that is. Liking something on facebook doesn't equate to true investment.
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trollrogue
Hank Scorpio
Nashville City of Music!!
Posts: 5,609
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Post by trollrogue on Sept 24, 2015 9:33:35 GMT -5
Nielsen Ratings were inaccurate and unreliable even before the advent of the DVR, now it's just rather sad that people still even think it matters to the point where commercials and ad strategies centered around broadcast TV spots actually honestly believe the 'old ways' of American broadcasting still work in the post-new media era. Far too many great television shows have been cancelled for 'low ratings' that turned out to be top-selling DVD box sets when their series run was unceremoniously ended despite the HUGE cult status (that never watched live tv). Social media success is the best/only measure of actual success a company needs in this day and age, I don't know why people insist on doing things only the dinosaurs of the entertainment industry still benefit from. Social Media is wildly inaccurate. If it was a true barometer, WWE would be bigger and have more fans than the NFL, and we all know how untrue that is. Liking something on facebook doesn't equate to true investment. I'd take social media over putting a Nielsen box in 10 super-rich, politically-motivated "randomly selected" families homes and treating them as the representative of 10,000 viewers each, thanks.
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