Woo
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Woo on Sept 24, 2015 12:28:06 GMT -5
Raw is essentially designed so a casual viewer can drop in and get into the show straight away which often results in poor long-term story telling, repetitive segments, characters that don't change for years before doing a sudden 180 and a big mess of inconsistencies. Angles are reduced to a hashtag and previously interesting characters becoming one note. Most weeks you can either fast-forward through them, watch the highlights on youtube or skip Raw entirely and not miss a damn thing. There is usually very little reason to watch every week. In fact if you do you get a worse experience than that casual fans as you're left asking "why?" too often? Why is this feud still going when the exact same match ended cleanly last week? Why did The Authority put Seth in back to back matches? Why did that old guy beat somebody half his age? Why are these women teaming together? Why did he get a title shot? Why did Barrett drop the bad news? Why did Demon/Corporate Kane not work like this before? Why am I watching this? Yet I get that to a degree, Raw can't be like Game Of Thrones where you can't join midway through season four and expect to know what's happening, they need to welcome new and casual viewers. However there must be better ways of achieving a happy medium where you're rewarded for watching every week and still be accessible for other viewers, they managed it before. You're right you can't confuse casual viewers by making it too complicated, but on the other hand we all first watched the WWE whilst at least a couple of storylines were halfway through and it didn't confuse us enough for us to stop watching.
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trollrogue
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Post by trollrogue on Sept 24, 2015 12:29:30 GMT -5
I'd take social media over putting a Nielsen box in 10 super-rich, politically-motivated "randomly selected" families homes and treating them as the representative of 10,000 viewers each, thanks. Twitter and Facebook have been proved to be tools for faking fanbases to a massive level. TNA and Bob Ryder got busted for this, inflating their followers with huge amounts of fake accounts to the point they outnumbered valid accounts, and it's happened to supposedly big musicians as well. Again I specifically mention live tweets during the runtime of the live episode, and not simply 'followers' or 'likes' on a facebook page towards gauging how many people are tuning in. This is a much more reasonable way to extrapolate total viewership than the Nielsen way of 1) using one family to count for 10K families (btw, each 'family' counts for 4 television sets, so more like ~40K viewers), 2) ignoring mobile devices (Nielsen does NOT track cell phones, tablets, or basically non-TV-related means of tuning into a station at all), 3) acceptance level (just because you have tuned into a station, doesn't mean you like the content. If you tweet negative things about a show, people will know exactly what you feel #MileyTwerks #KanyeInterrupts #StingCollapses etc.)
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trollrogue
Hank Scorpio
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Post by trollrogue on Sept 24, 2015 12:31:28 GMT -5
I am not anywhere close to super rich and as Ihave zero connections to anything in tv I'd say my selection as a Nielsen contributor was in fact random. hmm I stand corrected, but technically you aren't supposed to devulge the fact that you're a Nielsen box recipient lest you void the contract you agreed to. I guess don't tell anyone your real name "icbm"
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Sept 24, 2015 12:33:56 GMT -5
I'd take social media over putting a Nielsen box in 10 super-rich, politically-motivated "randomly selected" families homes and treating them as the representative of 10,000 viewers each, thanks. Twitter and Facebook have been proved to be tools for faking fanbases to a massive level. TNA and Bob Ryder got busted for this, inflating their followers with huge amounts of fake accounts to the point they outnumbered valid accounts, and it's happened to supposedly big musicians as well. Yeah, social media buzz translating to actual needle-moving business-wise (I hope that makes sense, I know I worded it awkwardly) is a essentially a myth. Which makes sense if you actually think about how the trending system on sites like Twitter works.
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trollrogue
Hank Scorpio
Nashville City of Music!!
Posts: 5,609
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Post by trollrogue on Sept 24, 2015 12:38:47 GMT -5
There are many reasons for WWE's slowly decreasing ratings. The most obvious of which is, quite simply, WWE's current product just isn't interesting enough to maintain the viewers the show has always had or to draw new viewers in. This relates to other reasons, like people don't watch Raw anymore as if it were appointment viewing for the reason that there are so many ways to watch Raw now. You could watch it live, you could DVR it, you could watch it on Hulu, you could watch it on the WWE Network a month after the fact, you could simply download it from less than reputable sources. Many of these ways to watch Raw are not valuable to the advertisers when they pay for commercial time, as people either skip these ads altogether or the ads are cut out from the showing. Two things here 1) as a person who has both Comcast Internet and Comcast TV (but no actual television) I feel it's within my right to be able to search these 'less than reputable sources" out to watch RAW every week. If I stream it live, I WILL see all the commercials, not to mention the built-in ads RAW has on every live broadcast. It's only the 'day after' sources of downloading live WWE shows that cut out commercials. So again, live Tweets, live FaceBook posts, and etc. are direct correlation to actual viewers who will see the marketing that advertisers pay money to place onto RAW and Smackdown. 2) Most people who watch live RAW on the USA Network will pause their DVR enough (about 30 minutes after the start time) to be able to skip all the ads. So Nielsen ratings are LESS RELIABLE than illegal streamers IMHO on who actually sees the ads that have been bought and paid for on RAW. Just my opinion, but supported by a lot of anecdotal and observed evidence, mind you. If anyone else DVR's RAW and FF's through commercials (and boring segments) like this comment! Twitter and Facebook have been proved to be tools for faking fanbases to a massive level. TNA and Bob Ryder got busted for this, inflating their followers with huge amounts of fake accounts to the point they outnumbered valid accounts, and it's happened to supposedly big musicians as well. Yeah, social media buzz translating to actual needle-moving business-wise (I hope that makes sense, I know I worded it awkwardly) is a essentially a myth. Which makes sense if you actually think about how the trending system on sites like Twitter works. 3) Again guys, I'm only talking about live Tweets and Facebook status updates being sent out while a new RAW is airing. That is the only reliable method of gauging how many 'true' viewers you have watching the product, not Nielsen "made up" numbers, or facebook likes/twitter followers.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Sept 24, 2015 12:51:20 GMT -5
Again I specifically mention live tweets during the runtime of the live episode, and not simply 'followers' or 'likes' on a facebook page towards gauging how many people are tuning in. This is a much more reasonable way to extrapolate total viewership than the Nielsen way of 1) using one family to count for 10K families (btw, each 'family' counts for 4 television sets, so more like ~40K viewers), 2) ignoring mobile devices (Nielsen does NOT track cell phones, tablets, or basically non-TV-related means of tuning into a station at all), 3) acceptance level (just because you have tuned into a station, doesn't mean you like the content. If you tweet negative things about a show, people will know exactly what you feel #MileyTwerks #KanyeInterrupts #StingCollapses etc.) Still unreliable. Programmed/timed 'bots can post anything anytime. Especially those programmed to be positive. #TNARocks I am not anywhere close to super rich and as Ihave zero connections to anything in tv I'd say my selection as a Nielsen contributor was in fact random. hmm I stand corrected, but technically you aren't supposed to devulge the fact that you're a Nielsen box recipient lest you void the contract you agreed to. I guess don't tell anyone your real name "icbm" My mom was sent a letter about five years ago, as they had selected her to invite to be one. She didn't even own a TV at the time.
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Post by Germansuplex on Sept 24, 2015 12:52:56 GMT -5
My mom was sent a letter about five years ago, as they had selected her to invite to be one. She didn't even own a TV at the time. "WHAT A NERD!"
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 73,748
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Post by Chiral on Sept 24, 2015 12:55:22 GMT -5
Dear Vince McMahon:
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2015 12:55:57 GMT -5
There are many reasons for WWE's slowly decreasing ratings. The most obvious of which is, quite simply, WWE's current product just isn't interesting enough to maintain the viewers the show has always had or to draw new viewers in. This relates to other reasons, like people don't watch Raw anymore as if it were appointment viewing for the reason that there are so many ways to watch Raw now. You could watch it live, you could DVR it, you could watch it on Hulu, you could watch it on the WWE Network a month after the fact, you could simply download it from less than reputable sources. Many of these ways to watch Raw are not valuable to the advertisers when they pay for commercial time, as people either skip these ads altogether or the ads are cut out from the showing. Two things here 1) as a person who has both Comcast Internet and Comcast TV (but no actual television) I feel it's within my right to be able to search these 'less than reputable sources" out to watch RAW every week. If I stream it live, I WILL see all the commercials, not to mention the built-in ads RAW has on every live broadcast. It's only the 'day after' sources of downloading live WWE shows that cut out commercials. So again, live Tweets, live FaceBook posts, and etc. are direct correlation to actual viewers who will see the marketing that advertisers pay money to place onto RAW and Smackdown. 2) Most people who watch live RAW on the USA Network will pause their DVR enough (about 30 minutes after the start time) to be able to skip all the ads. So Nielsen ratings are LESS RELIABLE than illegal streamers IMHO on who actually sees the ads that have been bought and paid for on RAW. Just my opinion, but supported by a lot of anecdotal and observed evidence, mind you. If anyone else DVR's RAW and FF's through commercials (and boring segments) like this comment! I think the point is because of the nature of illegal streams they aren't valuable to USA/WWE. Sure poeple may/may not watch the ads during illegal streams (as they could just click to another browser tab when the commericals are on or whatever) but if (for example) 1 million people watch an illegal stream of RAW, WWE/USA won't be able to charge a higher rate for their ad space as a result, in fact they'll be forced to charge less in order to court advertisers as the metric advertisers use won't reflect that. Plus, I mean, if you're an advertiser and you found out that your ads were being viewed by 1 million people who won't even (in most cases) pay to watch the show, what are the odds they'll pay for whatever product they're shilling? By that I mean, I'd imagine the "illegal streamer" demographic is not a highly valuable one to most adverstisers. And again, regarding social media traffic, that only measures how successful a company is at getting their fanbase to use social media, not at all reflective of people who are watching the show. I'm sure there are plenty of shows with much larger viewership that has lower social media traffic because the producers aren't constantly reinforcing the idea of tweeting during the show.
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Madagascar Fred
El Dandy
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Sept 24, 2015 13:03:57 GMT -5
Update:
"We’re told that the 9/21 Raw rating has put enormous pressure on creative by Vince McMahon directly, more than the prior two numbers. I think they at least partially used the excuse on the previous two weeks as Labor Day and the start of the NFL season, but when they ran big angles at the PPV to boost ratings the next day, when there is the traditional post-PPV increase, and the audience set an all-time low, it was the first time we got the term “panic” thrown around." Dave Meltzer, last WON.
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Sept 24, 2015 13:14:08 GMT -5
If the panic is serious, they need to realize that it's time to start overhauling the entire product and presentation. Outside of just the glaring problems already mentioned regarding talent and lack of building new stars/relying on old stars, you've got all these other little problems too. The writing just isn't good, and right now if you look at a lot of the most popular shows on TV, quality of writing is key. Another problem is that they clearly want to grab that younger audience, but then they've got middle-aged announcers who sound like their dorky parents trying to talk to them about what's cool, while also dropping stupid references teenagers won't get. I think the first steps have to be tightening up the writing, and axing Cole and JBL and replacing them with Corey Graves and Tom Phillips. You want to reach young people? Let them hear from young people.
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bob
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Post by bob on Sept 24, 2015 13:17:37 GMT -5
finally killing The Authority would help
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Sicho100
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Easily Confused.
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Post by Sicho100 on Sept 24, 2015 13:18:17 GMT -5
Update: "We’re told that the 9/21 Raw rating has put enormous pressure on creative by Vince McMahon directly, more than the prior two numbers. I think they at least partially used the excuse on the previous two weeks as Labor Day and the start of the NFL season, but when they ran big angles at the PPV to boost ratings the next day, when there is the traditional post-PPV increase, and the audience set an all-time low, it was the first time we got the term “panic” thrown around." Dave Meltzer, last WON. Maybe, instead of blaming the creative team, Vince should look in a mirror? Considering he, by all accounts, changes things on a weekly basis, it's a bit difficult for creative to come up with good stories that will hook viewers, considering the story will be torpedoed by week 2.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2015 13:18:05 GMT -5
Welp.
- Cena goes after the WWE Title again soon - Triple H in the ring more than ever like during the Bryan feud - Owens loses his title to Big Show - Kane gets multiple segments
That's this upcoming Raw.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Sept 24, 2015 13:19:27 GMT -5
Dave Meltzer is reporting that Vince was spotted in his office rubbin' his hands together like Birdman, hoping all of his dreams will come true.
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thirteen3
Dennis Stamp
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Post by thirteen3 on Sept 24, 2015 13:23:58 GMT -5
This may well convince the execs at USA that the Authority angle needs to end.
(Though I honestly don't know how much of that is true or just an excuse for Stephanie to remain a "TV celebrity".)
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Sept 24, 2015 13:24:39 GMT -5
Dave Meltzer is reporting that Vince was spotted in his office rubbin' his hands together like Birdman, hoping all of his dreams will come true. Here's footage
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Post by alexwrightspackage on Sept 24, 2015 13:53:42 GMT -5
Welp. - Cena goes after the WWE Title again soon - Triple H in the ring more than ever like during the Bryan feud - Owens loses his title to Big Show - Kane gets multiple segments That's this upcoming Raw. The Authority wins!
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Woo on Sept 24, 2015 14:06:47 GMT -5
Vince: "DAMNIT THESE RATINGS ARE AWFUL! WHO'S IN THE MAIN EVENTS AT THE MOMENT?"
Creative: "Ummmm, Brock Lesnar, Undertaker, John Cena, Sting, Seth Rollins, Big Show and Kane."
Vince: "What the hell?! They are our biggest names?! Oh wait.... Seth who?"
Creative: "Rollins."
Vince: "Aha! That's your problem! Replace him with Orton and we will enter a new boom period!"
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ICBM
King Koopa
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Post by ICBM on Sept 24, 2015 14:13:49 GMT -5
I am not anywhere close to super rich and as Ihave zero connections to anything in tv I'd say my selection as a Nielsen contributor was in fact random. hmm I stand corrected, but technically you aren't supposed to devulge the fact that you're a Nielsen box recipient lest you void the contract you agreed to. I guess don't tell anyone your real name "icbm" Not the box. The survey
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