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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 8:54:58 GMT -5
I still feel that the Nash Text thing is one of the best subtle story things they've done in a long while. Nash had no business being apart of the WWE at the time. He had no business to be anywhere near the company in an active form. He shows up to a show and gets to meet up with his old friend and then he suddenly appears in the main event powerbombing CM Punk. It's stupid. There's no reason for him to do that. So, here's him saying 'look I got a text that said to wipe out the winner. So I did." Everyone says it's Triple H, Triple H swears he never sent the text and left his phone alone as all major businessmen do during big important nights. So, it's a mystery. Who in their right minds would TEXT KEVIN NASH for help in 2011?! Who would be desperate enough to bring in Nash? The MITB guy? No. He was just an opportunist when stupidity happened. Triple H as Red Herring? No. Triple H literally has an entire locker room full of people who could reliably do the job. Santino on a lark? Never investigated. It was a Sherlock Holmes level thing. When you remove all the other possibilities, the only remaining one must be correct. WHO IS THE ONLY PERSON STUPID ENOUGH TO THINK KEVIN NASH SHOULD BE ON TV IN AN ACTIVE ROLE IN 2011? Kevin Nash, That's who. Nash texted himself. Got involved in other people's business and while he 'lost' in the end, he made more money in the end. And that's why I enjoy that stupid part of this horribly done angle. ...or.... That was the plausible logic about the whole thing to cover for Hunner who really did hate CM Punk but wanted to do it in a way more befitting of someone in the front office. ...or Stephanie McMahon, who felt Hunner was losing control and thought it'd be "best for business" if she got in touch with Nash who also may have felt like he was doing his old buddy a solid...without his permission. ...or Johnny Ace who was the guy they deliberately booked to text on his phone...then Nash suddenly appears.. ...or hell, even ADR who could've used Ricardo to get his hands on Hunner's phone to implicate him in a to keep CM Punk's eye-off-the-ball and John Cena distracted with Punk blabbing all over the place. I mean..your explanation is a great cover for Nash to hide behind while he blatantly lies about the text. Problem is CM Punk needed a good antagonist. Really, they needed Hunner to be involved with the text. Hunner needed to be the bad guy.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Oct 4, 2015 9:26:29 GMT -5
'THIS IS PHILL BROOKS TALKING TO PAUL LEVESQUE!'
Yeee..uhhh...gh.
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kevin
El Dandy
Posts: 7,502
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Post by kevin on Oct 4, 2015 9:50:37 GMT -5
'THIS IS PHILL BROOKS TALKING TO PAUL LEVESQUE!' Yeee..uhhh...gh. I hated that line so much.
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Post by An Old Villain on Oct 4, 2015 10:05:43 GMT -5
One of the most pathetic and depressing runs I've ever seen. I don't want to be the one guy left beating a dead horse, but the entire thing served only as a way for HHH to effectively kill CM Punk, stroke HHHs ego, and make HHHs old pal some money in the process. It made no sense any way you look at it other than a HHH ego trip.
And while Im at it, Punks biggest mistake was that he didn't just go full on nuclear with his stuff. I think he tried way too hard to do business with the others and kind of came out looking like a tepid doofus. Had he gone full mid 90s HBK on them, like he is/was capable of doing, they simply couldn't have kept up with him. I legit think Punk was trying to make a bit of peace and play nice and it didn't do him any favors.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 10:33:26 GMT -5
One of the most pathetic and depressing runs I've ever seen. I don't want to be the one guy left beating a dead horse, but the entire thing served only as a way for HHH to effectively kill CM Punk, stroke HHHs ego, and make HHHs old pal some money in the process. It made no sense any way you look at it other than a HHH ego trip. And while Im at it, Punks biggest mistake was that he didn't just go full on nuclear with his stuff. I think he tried way too hard to do business with the others and kind of came out looking like a tepid doofus. Had he gone full mid 90s HBK on them, like he is/was capable of doing, they simply couldn't have kept up with him. I legit think Punk was trying to make a bit of peace and play nice and it didn't do him any favors. I believe he really did want to lift up the company as a whole, particularly the guys in the locker room who weren't getting a fair shake. WWE is totally different now compared to the mid 90s. They obviously didn't see him as that type of game changer where they'd let him be 90s HBK. There was no WCW breathing down their neck he could threaten to go to. If only TNA was a little bigger/more competent at the time... It's kind of like Rage Against The Machine being on Epic records, a means to get the message out to as many people possible. Minor Threat and Fugazi stayed away from all the bs that comes with corporate music, but as a result so many less people heard what they had to say.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 10:34:51 GMT -5
Beginning of the end of my interest in WWE as a whole. I didn't stop watching right after but that was one of multiple things (Punk in 2011, the utter calamity that was 2013 w Bryan being derailed for Batista, Orton vs Cena title unification etc, the post WM handling of Dbry w that terrible Kane feud, the increasing reliance on Attitude Era stars w RockvCena, HHHvBrock) that in aggregate really put me off the show.
If NXT weren't around it would have been much faster though.
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Post by Ruthless Pessimism on Oct 4, 2015 10:39:03 GMT -5
Punk was a great wrestler but I never really cared for him that much. So seeing Triple H put him in his place at the end of the 'Summer of Punk' will always be awesome to me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 10:40:55 GMT -5
Still think that match was so much of a mess that it made NOBODY look good, instead of the sentiment of "Triple H > Punk" just because he got the win in the end. I'm sure that's the line they fed to Punk too. But the only people who knew details were the ones watching the PPV. The headlines/results matter most and everyone on Raw the next night sees ' Triple H beat CM Punk'. And if that really was all fine and good, Punk could've gone over Triple H with H being protected. Anyway, the next night they had Punk admitting what a swell guy Triple H was, and being on his side when everyone walked out. There's still no excuse for it, all the schmozziness be damned. It really did take CM Punk from a rising star to another guy within WWE-land. The follow-up could've saved it, but made no effort to.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 10:48:28 GMT -5
HHH definitely sabotaged Punk, and he knew he was doing it, too. It was the most strategic burial he's ever done, right down to bringing his friend in for a payday. He did the same thing with Sting earlier this year, again, right down to bringing his friends in for a payday. As Cabana/Punk mentioned in their podcast, he came out of retirement, beat Punk, and then went back into retirement. For those saying he has changed since then, Sting disagrees.
The thing that's sad about this whole thing is that HHH could have easily turned heel to help elevate Punk. They could have extended that feud to WM. Instead, he remained a face, beat Punk, and then Punk apologized to HHH for ever doubting him. It was ridiculous. Even the commentary team stood up for HHH. Either HHH wanted to be the face despite the reactions to Punk or he was so egotistical that he thought the crowd would turn on Punk because he was feuding with him. Both were miscalculations. Two years later, HHH became the authority figure heel he should have been in 2011.
I've mentioned a few times here, I am a casual wrestling fan since the end of 2002. I watch when something big happens, otherwise I kind of just float around, knowing what's going on but not really going out of my way to watch anything. In 2011, Punk made me watch, and I didn't even know about his ROH days, so it's not like I was a fan. He was that good on the mic in 2011, you hung on every word and he was saying things that no one else was saying at that time. To destroy that momentum for HHH's ego was horrendous business and downright petty.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Oct 4, 2015 10:49:22 GMT -5
Punk was never close to being a mainstream star, lol. I'm not sure how that got started but that's really not even close to being true. There was hype for the initial pipebomb angle but peak interest lasted, at most, a few weeks. Don't get me wrong, COULD he have been a top guy on the level of a John Cena with lots of time and careful booking? Sure, he had the following to do so. But, it's not like he was about to break through that mainstream ceiling and WWE stopped him.
It was a white hot wrestling angle that should have been a slam dunk that WWE managed to screw up, probably because some people at the top flat out didn't want it succeed. If that's not the case, that means they actually thought this Nash nonsense was a good way to help the storyline which is just absurd from every angle. But, whatever the case is, they f***ed up.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 4, 2015 10:50:52 GMT -5
Still think that match was so much of a mess that it made NOBODY look good, instead of the sentiment of "Triple H > Punk" just because he got the win in the end. I'm sure that's the line they fed to Punk too. But the only people who knew details were the ones watching the PPV. The headlines/results matter most and everyone on Raw the next night sees ' Triple H beat CM Punk'. And if that really was all fine and good, Punk could've gone over Triple H with H being protected. Fair enough, but could it also be logical for this reasoning to be used the other way? For example, Punk beating Cena at Money In The Bank... That gets marginalised in the detail because of the attempted screwjob finish, but the headline/results would still read "CM Punk beat John Cena".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 10:56:14 GMT -5
I'm sure that's the line they fed to Punk too. But the only people who knew details were the ones watching the PPV. The headlines/results matter most and everyone on Raw the next night sees ' Triple H beat CM Punk'. And if that really was all fine and good, Punk could've gone over Triple H with H being protected. Fair enough, but could it also be logical for this reasoning to be used the other way? For example, Punk beating Cena at Money In The Bank... That gets marginalised in the detail because of the attempted screwjob finish, but the headline/results would still read "CM Punk beat John Cena". Yeah, that did happen. Exponentially less f***ery, but they did put it across as Punk beating Cena straight up, with Cena even saying so. Again, it's in the follow-up. After that win, next month at Summerslam, he gets a win because of Triple H's poor officiating, Kevin Nash powerbombs him and Del Rio cashes in MITB. Which led to this whole mess we're talking about, and resulted in a much cooled off Punk finally winning the title and getting his reign started.
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Post by JTG Fan on Oct 4, 2015 11:13:40 GMT -5
In retrospect Nash completely owned that non-drawing, vanilla midget, short order cook at Waffle House in Pikeville. No wonder he quit the business about 2 years later.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 11:14:03 GMT -5
Punk was never close to being a mainstream star, lol. I'm not sure how that got started but that's really not even close to being true. There was hype for the initial pipebomb angle but peak interest lasted, at most, a few weeks. Don't get me wrong, COULD he have been a top guy on the level of a John Cena with lots of time and careful booking? Sure, he had the following to do so. But, it's not like he was about to break through that mainstream ceiling and WWE stopped him. It was a white hot wrestling angle that should have been a slam dunk that WWE managed to screw up, probably because some people at the top flat out didn't want it succeed. If that's not the case, that means they actually thought this Nash nonsense was a good way to help the storyline which is just absurd from every angle. But, whatever the case is, they f***ed up. People felt that way because he was getting coverage from outlets that would never touch wrestling. For me, him being asked to appear on Jim Rome's radio show was a huge indicator that this was something different. I've listened to him for years, and Jim Rome HATES pro wrestling and it's fans, ripping on it at every opportunity. But Punk captivated him so much that he wanted him on his show. Getting coverage in sports media was simply not happening in wrestling, for a long time. Hell, the only other guy to do it recently is Brock Lesnar, or someone like Macho Man or Dusty Rhodes dying (Punk even alluded to this in one of his promos, lol). It wasn't the type of mainstream stardom that gets you in People magazine or on Oprah, but it showed the potential he had to get people talking outside of the wrestling bubble. With one promo, he went from ho-hum frustrated upper-midcard heel to white-hot face with people everywhere talking about him, it was pretty damned impressive. They couldn't have done a worse job of cultivating that lightning in a bottle though.
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SAJ Forth
Wade Wilson
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Post by SAJ Forth on Oct 4, 2015 11:15:28 GMT -5
While both CM Punk and Triple-H had a good match, it was obvious that WWE saw what they thought would be just another angle become far bigger than it was intended to. They never wanted to shake their own foundation, so they had to make sure to eliminate that momentum. While I don't think Vince was laughing as the life was fading from everything, I do think he was relieved to not have to innovate.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Oct 4, 2015 11:15:51 GMT -5
In retrospect Nash completely owned that non-drawing, vanilla midget, short order cook at Waffle House in Pikeville. I would like to ask the court that Kevin Nash be cleared of all charges due to Punk clearly being a jabroni that had to run away to UFC.
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Oct 4, 2015 11:20:39 GMT -5
One of the most pathetic and depressing runs I've ever seen. I don't want to be the one guy left beating a dead horse, but the entire thing served only as a way for HHH to effectively kill CM Punk, stroke HHHs ego, and make HHHs old pal some money in the process. It made no sense any way you look at it other than a HHH ego trip. And while Im at it, Punks biggest mistake was that he didn't just go full on nuclear with his stuff. I think he tried way too hard to do business with the others and kind of came out looking like a tepid doofus. Had he gone full mid 90s HBK on them, like he is/was capable of doing, they simply couldn't have kept up with him. I legit think Punk was trying to make a bit of peace and play nice and it didn't do him any favors. Your avatar fits this perfectly. Regal is disappointed in his good bud HHH.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Oct 4, 2015 11:36:18 GMT -5
I don't think it was a strategic burial as much as it was WWE not understanding something or someone they didn't think should be as over as they were. Moreover, nothing was going to ruin what they had planed for Rock - Cena and the Trips-Taker rematch(think my time period is right here). Because of this type of thinking they often just let hot acts or angles burn out because they don't have long term plans for them or don't see long term success in them.
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Big Poppa Pumpkin
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Big Poppa Pumpkin on Oct 4, 2015 11:37:35 GMT -5
Another example of an angle that could and should have MADE someone, that they blew in the most tedious manner possible. It's their money to lose though, ultimately. There's a very good reason they have to pay Brock as much as they do, there's a very good reason they have to wheel out part-timers to make big events feel truly big, a very good reason why the last three title contenders have been John Cena and two guys that have a combined age of 114. The penny will drop eventually.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by The Ichi on Oct 4, 2015 11:37:23 GMT -5
I do love that the Summerslam 2013 ending basically proved Punk right the whole time.
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