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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 23, 2015 6:18:21 GMT -5
You can't look like Roman Reigns and play an underdog.
It never worked for Cena either.
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Post by benstudd on Nov 23, 2015 7:46:29 GMT -5
The funniest part is they refuse to turn Roman heel. Almost everyone who lasted got over as a heel, then turned and made it as the top face. Savage, Michaels, Austin, Rock, Cena, Bryan, just to name a few. So, stop fighting the current. You don't know better than the fans. You have the recipe, f***ing use it. For me personally I don't mind them fighting it, I like Roman Reigns and the whole idea of turning someone heel to make him babyface is so weird to me, like I think most people here appreciate Roman Reigns as a worker, the stories they've cast him in since Wrestlemania have been rather inoffensive and his matches are great. I feel like there's enough redeeming value to Reigns to get behind but wrestling being the strange beast that it is we're at a standoff with Vince McMahon. People want Roman as a heel for the same reason that they want Cena heel, it's cause they don't want these guys being shoved down their throats and secondly, they think maybe it may make these guys more interesting. I would be interested to see RR as a heel, what it would look like. Esp. with the right mouth piece.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 7:55:39 GMT -5
For me personally I don't mind them fighting it, I like Roman Reigns and the whole idea of turning someone heel to make him babyface is so weird to me, like I think most people here appreciate Roman Reigns as a worker, the stories they've cast him in since Wrestlemania have been rather inoffensive and his matches are great. I feel like there's enough redeeming value to Reigns to get behind but wrestling being the strange beast that it is we're at a standoff with Vince McMahon. People want Roman as a heel for the same reason that they want Cena heel, it's cause they don't want these guys being shoved down their throats and secondly, they think maybe it may make these guys more interesting. I would be interested to see RR as a heel, what it would look like. Esp. with the right mouth piece. There is a subtle, crucial difference - people want Cena to turn heel because it'd be a change of pace from the same tired routine he's been doing for over a decade. People want Reigns to turn heel because it'd help him find an identity of his own and likely make him a much more compelling face on turning back in a year or so.
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Post by benstudd on Nov 23, 2015 7:57:49 GMT -5
People want Roman as a heel for the same reason that they want Cena heel, it's cause they don't want these guys being shoved down their throats and secondly, they think maybe it may make these guys more interesting. I would be interested to see RR as a heel, what it would look like. Esp. with the right mouth piece. There is a subtle, crucial difference - people want Cena to turn heel because it'd be a change of pace from the same tired routine he's been doing for over a decade. People want Reigns to turn heel because it'd help him find an identity of his own and likely make him a much more compelling face on turning back in a year or so. Right. Nevertheless people want them to turn to make them more compelling.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 8:01:04 GMT -5
For me personally I don't mind them fighting it, I like Roman Reigns and the whole idea of turning someone heel to make him babyface is so weird to me, like I think most people here appreciate Roman Reigns as a worker, the stories they've cast him in since Wrestlemania have been rather inoffensive and his matches are great. I feel like there's enough redeeming value to Reigns to get behind but wrestling being the strange beast that it is we're at a standoff with Vince McMahon. People want Roman as a heel for the same reason that they want Cena heel, it's cause they don't want these guys being shoved down their throats and secondly, they think maybe it may make these guys more interesting. I would be interested to see RR as a heel, what it would look like. Esp. with the right mouth piece. I get that and I'm sure it would actually work in terms of making Roman Reigns a bigger star. I just think from a creative standpoint it can get annoying how fans won't cheer a guy until he's an asshole. There's no precedent for storytelling in any other medium that requires the writer to hack away at the integrity of a character to such a degree to make the viewer accept them. They got goofy with Roman Reigns for a short while, corrected their course with him but fans won't get behind him because they know the company wants him to be a star, which is another weird thing, no one ever hates a superhero movie because it's trying to keep Spiderman strong. Every TV series has its protected characters. Though I agree that WWE's thing of having one top guy and a bunch of lesser thans pretty annoying, WWE's never gonna stop looking for it whether it's Roman Reigns or someone else and Reigns is a fine choice even if I'd prefer other guys.
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dreidemy
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Post by dreidemy on Nov 23, 2015 11:19:03 GMT -5
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Post by wisdomwizard on Nov 23, 2015 11:24:32 GMT -5
Reigns can work as a face. Just do more of the shorter promos he excels at, keep playing the friendship angle with him and Ambrose and he can work.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 11:27:22 GMT -5
God, that puts it into perspective just how blatantly this was the exact same thing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 11:32:46 GMT -5
People want Roman as a heel for the same reason that they want Cena heel, it's cause they don't want these guys being shoved down their throats and secondly, they think maybe it may make these guys more interesting. I would be interested to see RR as a heel, what it would look like. Esp. with the right mouth piece. I get that and I'm sure it would actually work in terms of making Roman Reigns a bigger star. I just think from a creative standpoint it can get annoying how fans won't cheer a guy until he's an asshole. There's no precedent for storytelling in any other medium that requires the writer to hack away at the integrity of a character to such a degree to make the viewer accept them. They got goofy with Roman Reigns for a short while, corrected their course with him but fans won't get behind him because they know the company wants him to be a star, which is another weird thing, no one ever hates a superhero movie because it's trying to keep Spiderman strong. Every TV series has its protected characters. Though I agree that WWE's thing of having one top guy and a bunch of lesser thans pretty annoying, WWE's never gonna stop looking for it whether it's Roman Reigns or someone else and Reigns is a fine choice even if I'd prefer other guys. Nobody hates Superman for looking strong in a Superman movie because he's the sole hero. If you compared it to something more apt like, random example here, Walking Dead that has an ensemble cast then yeah, it's absolutely comparable. Things like that have all kinds of cases of characters producers and writers push that viewers dislike.
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Post by normansmiley on Nov 23, 2015 11:33:32 GMT -5
This topic is spot on. Don't see how the OP is overthinking anything. It's pretty obvious what they're trying to do.
None of this feels organic. I don't mind rehashing the angle that much. It's just with the completely wrong guy. This is the angle you pull for a guy's "improbable rise" to the top. This is the angle you use for Daniel Bryan, Sami Zayn, Cesaro, Hideo Itami, etc. You use it for guys that have the ability, but not necessarily the elements that management looks for in their main guy. You can't use it effectively with Reigns because his winning the WWE Championship wasn't improbable. It wasn't even just probable. It was definite.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Nov 23, 2015 11:45:05 GMT -5
Sheesh, what happened to the 7-year rule?
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Nov 23, 2015 11:47:22 GMT -5
People want Roman as a heel for the same reason that they want Cena heel, it's cause they don't want these guys being shoved down their throats Are people really so naive to believe that a heel turn would see the end of Reigns (or Cena) being shoved down their throats? I have my doubts.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Nov 23, 2015 11:48:02 GMT -5
Lmao, I watched it last night and just shook my head. Nobody's gonna buy this "the company hates Reigns" like they did with Bryan. They talk about awesome and powerful Roman's dick is too much for anyone to actually believe that...no pun intended.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 11:49:18 GMT -5
People want Roman as a heel for the same reason that they want Cena heel, it's cause they don't want these guys being shoved down their throats Are people really so naive to believe that a heel turn would see the end of Reigns (or Cena) being shoved down their throats? I have my doubts. It's less that and more at least they'd be different from what they're doing. Cena'd at least be doing something new with his character for the first time in an eternity, and Reigns could find an identity that isn't just, "The Shield sure was cool, huh? B'lee dat babygurl."
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wisdomwizard
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Post by wisdomwizard on Nov 23, 2015 11:52:39 GMT -5
People want Roman as a heel for the same reason that they want Cena heel, it's cause they don't want these guys being shoved down their throats Are people really so naive to believe that a heel turn would see the end of Reigns (or Cena) being shoved down their throats? I have my doubts. Yeah, I like both but if people think heel turns would make WWE not focus on them as much they're barking up the wrong tree. If Reigns turned heel, he'd still be using The Shield's music and come trough the crowd.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 11:56:35 GMT -5
I get that and I'm sure it would actually work in terms of making Roman Reigns a bigger star. I just think from a creative standpoint it can get annoying how fans won't cheer a guy until he's an asshole. There's no precedent for storytelling in any other medium that requires the writer to hack away at the integrity of a character to such a degree to make the viewer accept them. They got goofy with Roman Reigns for a short while, corrected their course with him but fans won't get behind him because they know the company wants him to be a star, which is another weird thing, no one ever hates a superhero movie because it's trying to keep Spiderman strong. Every TV series has its protected characters. Though I agree that WWE's thing of having one top guy and a bunch of lesser thans pretty annoying, WWE's never gonna stop looking for it whether it's Roman Reigns or someone else and Reigns is a fine choice even if I'd prefer other guys. Nobody hates Superman for looking strong in a Superman movie because he's the sole hero. If you compared it to something more apt like, random example here, Walking Dead that has an ensemble cast then yeah, it's absolutely comparable. Things like that have all kinds of cases of characters producers and writers push that viewers dislike. Maybe a better example would be hating Wolverine because he's the focus of an X-men movie, the movie is called X-men, implying that it should be as much about Wolverine as much as it should be the group, but Wolverine gets the focus because he's in most cases the favorite. Naturally people who are fans of the other guys are gonna resent Wolverine for taking attention from one of their favorites, but the solution as a writer isn't to make Wolverine a villain for a while until people warm up to him. It's just always weird to me in wrestling discussions when people jump to the heel turn as a device to get a guy over, as much as I know that's an effective tactic, and it's kind of been the nature of pro wrestling for decades, for me I just find it really unsatisfying. For a guy like Roman Reigns who has been established as a guy who has strong convictions and friendships to suddenly take an inexplicable 180 to satiate a resentful audience, which is why I can appreciate WWE trying to fight against the tide and make him the hero they want him to be without affecting the basic tenets of the character.
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Post by thetower52 on Nov 23, 2015 11:58:00 GMT -5
Just saw that on Reddit and came here to post it
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Post by Bo Rida on Nov 23, 2015 12:06:32 GMT -5
He comes from a famous wrestling family which helped him get his chance in dis business, he has the good looks to be the face of the company, is a favourite of management, is pushed beyond the point his reactions warrant...
Reigns is closer to Orton in this remake than Bryan.
That's the trouble with this stupid reality era, you can't pick and choose when you use it, by WWE's own twisted logic Reigns should be the heel.
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feartear
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Post by feartear on Nov 23, 2015 12:07:23 GMT -5
God, that puts it into perspective just how blatantly this was the exact same thing. Except this time, Triple H isn't exactly happy about it. Look at his face when he raises Sheamus' arm: he's not liking it one bit. I bet he thought "Goddamnit Vince, now I feel symphathy for CM Punk."
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Post by Dub H on Nov 23, 2015 12:11:59 GMT -5
Seriously, rewatch the hype video for Bryan vs Trips. I still get goosebumps because it was a story that came together perfectly. one of the best WWE videos ever made
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