Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Nov 23, 2015 12:16:51 GMT -5
God, that puts it into perspective just how blatantly this was the exact same thing. I wouldn't say exact. Reigns was made to look much stronger and a bigger deal.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 12:20:52 GMT -5
God, that puts it into perspective just how blatantly this was the exact same thing. I wouldn't say exact. Reigns was made to look much stronger and a bigger deal. Which funny enough made him look worse, because Bryan was killed dead after a dramatic showdown and completely exhausted. Reigns rather casually won a match shorter than most that happen on Raw then managed to get back to his feet after the Brogue Kick and engaged Sheamus on equal footing (after he'd gone three-on-one with some people earlier in the night, after Roman's initial match at that), and then Sheamus just quite casually and easily kicked his head in and won.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Nov 23, 2015 12:45:32 GMT -5
It's just always weird to me in wrestling discussions when people jump to the heel turn as a device to get a guy over, as much as I know that's an effective tactic, and it's kind of been the nature of pro wrestling for decades, for me I just find it really unsatisfying. For a guy like Roman Reigns who has been established as a guy who has strong convictions and friendships to suddenly take an inexplicable 180 to satiate a resentful audience, which is why I can appreciate WWE trying to fight against the tide and make him the hero they want him to be without affecting the basic tenets of the character. The thing is, top faces have a much narrower range of behavior in the WWE than heels do. Top faces have to be cool and tough and grr and badass and strong. They have to be Cena. But top heels can be lots of different things. They can have characters that aren't just "this guy's our star."
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Post by Mid-Carder on Nov 23, 2015 13:24:01 GMT -5
I feel sorry for Roman, genuinely. I like him but WWE are completely letting him down. They'd made so much progress since Mania.
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Post by sportatorium on Nov 23, 2015 13:37:11 GMT -5
This would be a hotter angle if they had just done it with Ambrose. Hunter could even brag that they've done it before etc. Booking Roman as Tommy Dreamer is going to make it worse.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Nov 23, 2015 14:39:56 GMT -5
People want Roman as a heel for the same reason that they want Cena heel, it's cause they don't want these guys being shoved down their throats and secondly, they think maybe it may make these guys more interesting. I would be interested to see RR as a heel, what it would look like. Esp. with the right mouth piece. There is a subtle, crucial difference - people want Cena to turn heel because it'd be a change of pace from the same tired routine he's been doing for over a decade. People want Reigns to turn heel because it'd help him find an identity of his own and likely make him a much more compelling face on turning back in a year or so. His run so far is mirroring Rocky Maivia so hard. I'm not saying he needs to become The Rome or anything, but heels get over more on their mic skills than their in ring ability, and by god, he needs more practice talking. ...wait, wasn't The Rock's first title win in Deadly Games?
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Nov 23, 2015 15:14:52 GMT -5
If they'd done this to Ambrose, everyone would've looked better. Ambrose can recover from the screwjob run like this, he's got the Bryan sympathy Roman doesn't. I just don't understand why they're taking the hard road with Roman when there's such an easy solution.
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Post by Hit Girl on Nov 23, 2015 15:18:57 GMT -5
WWE are the only people in the world who don't see that Dean Ambrose could easily fill the Daniel Bryan role of fan favoured underdog.
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Post by abjordans on Nov 23, 2015 15:20:30 GMT -5
One thing I will say as a side note. Roman Reigns is very over. Have you ever been in a building when he comes out?
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Nov 23, 2015 16:52:36 GMT -5
You can't look like Roman Reigns and play an underdog. It never worked for Cena either. It did work for Cena at some point, because WWE on some level does try to present him as fallible. Cena was somewhat smaller during the first few years of his career and wrestled a variety of opponents who were bigger, stronger, more technically sound or in some cases just straight up more capable of violence. Roman is on a roster where arguably the majority are "junior heavyweights". Plus unlike Cena, they want to present Reigns as a powerhouse destroyer. That's why it doesn't work. They can't "make Roman Look Strong" AND make him an underdog at the same time.
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Post by angryfan on Nov 23, 2015 18:14:56 GMT -5
Bryan was sympathetic because, talented wrestler, he had an everyman quality. Dusty Rhodes in a sense. He was the guy you could say, "I kow somebody like him, I'm gonna pull for him".
Roman is a big jacked up dude, they pimp his lineage left and right, and as much as he has improved (and he has, leaps and bounds)and has hard as he works, there's still that, "He's not just a regular guy, he's some ex jock badass" that doesn't at all, EVER, fit the "underdog" mantra.
He's the Rock's cousin, so that doesn't make him an underdog in the company. He was part of the most dominant faction the company has seen in 20 years, so that doesnt' make him an underdog. He's friggin huge, so that doesnt' make him an underdog.
There is literally nothing about him that screams "I'm fighting to just get here".
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Post by Starshine on Nov 23, 2015 18:51:19 GMT -5
One thing I will say as a side note. Roman Reigns is very over. Have you ever been in a building when he comes out? Yup, I was at Mania and the following RAW. He easily got the most boos in both instances.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Nov 23, 2015 18:59:42 GMT -5
Vince wants Roman to be the Rocky against The Authority's Apollo Creed, when in reality he's more Ivan Drago than Itallion Stallion. He can play the role to the best of his ability, but it's not a natural fit and never will be.
If anything Roman was a better fit for the the hand-picked, underserving corporate champion than Rollins was. Chances are if they'd gone with him over Rollins, and played out the planned storyline of HHH falling out with his 'Chosen One' the crowds would probably be firmly on Roman's side by now.
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Post by abjordans on Nov 23, 2015 19:00:09 GMT -5
One thing I will say as a side note. Roman Reigns is very over. Have you ever been in a building when he comes out? Yup, I was at Mania and the following RAW. He easily got the most boos in both instances. I was at Battleground in Tampa in 2014 and Raw in August. He blew the roof off both nights and had the girl in front of me at Raw crying at his mere appearance.
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Post by Starshine on Nov 23, 2015 19:07:18 GMT -5
Yup, I was at Mania and the following RAW. He easily got the most boos in both instances. I was at Battleground in Tampa in 2014 and Raw in August. He blew the roof off both nights and had the girl in front of me at Raw crying at his mere appearance. One thing though. Between Battleground and Mania, which crowd does WWE concern themselves with more?
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Post by angryfan on Nov 23, 2015 19:18:13 GMT -5
I was at Battleground in Tampa in 2014 and Raw in August. He blew the roof off both nights and had the girl in front of me at Raw crying at his mere appearance. One thing though. Between Battleground and Mania, which crowd does WWE concern themselves with more? In theory WrestleMania, in booking practice, Battleground, because THAT is the crowd they want at Mania.
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Post by benstudd on Nov 24, 2015 4:30:27 GMT -5
People want Roman as a heel for the same reason that they want Cena heel, it's cause they don't want these guys being shoved down their throats Are people really so naive to believe that a heel turn would see the end of Reigns (or Cena) being shoved down their throats? I have my doubts. It won't end the throat-shoving but it would be different. I find that dominant heels tend to be less annoying than dominant faces.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2015 4:52:26 GMT -5
I wouldn't say this is the exact same thing. The main difference was HHH TURNED HEELfor the first time in seven years by screwing over Daniel Bryan out of the title. If the ending involved Dean Ambrose turning on Roman Reigns than I would say they are clearly ripping off the story arc. Hell the Daniel Bryan MITB screwjob is more comparable to the Del Rio cashing in happening on the exact same PPV two years apart with HHH being the guest referee in both of the matches counting the pinfall and all and random heel turns (Kevin Nash/Orton/HHH)
Otherwise this is more comparable of heel taking advantage of a exhausted and distracted babyface like Edge cashing in on Cena, or Kane cashing on Rey Mysterio or Miz on Orton or Del Rio on Punk, etc. We are really grasping at straws. Plus building up sympathy is how you usually build support for a babyface. If Reigns never got cashed in or fought Sheamus off he is looks like he is too strong. Hell the whole Roman Reigns character lately is he is legit, but can never win the big one like if he's Peyton Manning or Alexander Ovechkin or some shit. And the one time he finally wins it, he has to do it by beating his best friend, he loses it in a few minutes before he can really enjoy the moment.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Nov 24, 2015 6:34:48 GMT -5
Reigns should have just won the tournament and that was that. You can still have the authority doing everything they can to screw over the new face champion, at least that way you're copying a storyline from 1999 and not 2013.
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Post by r. on Nov 24, 2015 8:22:34 GMT -5
WWE are the only people in the world who don't see that Dean Ambrose could easily fill the Daniel Bryan role of fan favoured underdog. Nothing happens organically, I'm sure bucky beaver bitch walked around with his chest puffed out after coming up with an idea to get people to stop shitting all over Roman.
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