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Post by JTG Fan on Feb 23, 2016 0:04:03 GMT -5
Anybody notice the "one more time!" chants when during the big angle Lesnar was killing beloved babyface Ambrose, the guy commonly pointed to as the top alternate to "anybody but Reigns"? I've said it before, but we wrestling fans are basically just the worst. We are the kids in the Itchy and Scratchy screening, we don't know what we want. ? Ambrose is the only guy on the roster who actually got the crowd to boo Lesnar. They always chant 1 more time for when Lesnar does things but it doesn't show that the fans actually turn on the guy. If you rewatch FastLane you'll see that Ambrose had the crowd turning on Lesnar, same thing tonight. This isn't really a good example. It's not that I'm saying they're turning on Ambrose, it's that they're very impulsive and it doesn't really do anybody any favors. If you love Ambrose so much, show it by cheering him like how Daniel Bryan got cheered and FORCE them to listen, cheering for him to also be beaten up only indicates you are a smarky, heel loving crowd that WWE needn't take seriously.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 0:10:26 GMT -5
? Ambrose is the only guy on the roster who actually got the crowd to boo Lesnar. They always chant 1 more time for when Lesnar does things but it doesn't show that the fans actually turn on the guy. If you rewatch FastLane you'll see that Ambrose had the crowd turning on Lesnar, same thing tonight. This isn't really a good example. It's not that I'm saying they're turning on Ambrose, it's that they're very impulsive and it doesn't really do anybody any favors. If you love Ambrose so much, show it by cheering him like how Daniel Bryan got cheered and FORCE them to listen, cheering for him to also be beaten up only indicates you are a smarky, heel loving crowd that WWE needn't take seriously. Eh, they did cheer Ambrose during the Brock stuff tonight especially when he announced the match, Ambrose got more cheers than Lesnar during that entire segment. In this situation it's face vs face not face vs heel so they cheered for both guys.
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Post by wildojinx on Feb 23, 2016 0:24:56 GMT -5
I just had a scary thought, what if they try to give HHH heel heat by having him squash NXT guys?
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Feb 23, 2016 2:10:44 GMT -5
Also it was done better the first time. The first time, they pushed him past his breaking point and he went insane destroying everything and everyone, for a few weeks, he felt REAL. Now he's mostly back to doing the stuff people hated and being the phony guy corporate are trying to sell you, which isn't working again, and he's going to beat HHH because that's what the story says, not because he NEEDS this. What phony stuff? He hasn't been doing the dumb catchphrases like he was a while ago. Except for one line about bread or something a few months ago which wasn't that bad even. How about the whole build to the Rumble? One against All Reigns is such an underdog! Except he's blatantly your hand picked guy and everyone saw one of 2 outcomes, either he wins the thing, or loses then faces the winner at Wrestlemania for a crowning moment. There isn't the passion, the heart that there was. The only time he seems like a real person is around Ambrose which is why they've been keeping him around Roman.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Feb 23, 2016 2:29:44 GMT -5
Roman Reigns biggest fault is that he doesn't have a definite character. He's STILL the enforcer of The Shield, from the look, entrance, music, everything is exactly the same. He never told anyone why he still lingers to the Shield, WWE are just keeping the stuff with him because they either can't think of a new gimmick for him, or think he can't get any other gimmick over. It's really weird. Plus, his booking is all over the place. One week, he's a silent badass, beating up Triple H, winning the belt in Philly to loud cheers. Than, he loses the belt, and were back to where we were last year. The EXACT SAME PLACE! Only this time, we have no Heyman to build up the story, no Brock Lesnar to suplex Roman 15 times. Back to his booking though, I think fans were behind him in Philly no only because he won the belt, but because fans though that was probably going to be the decisive Roman Reigns WWE Championship win. Now, that's out of the way we can see who he faces, what they do at Mania with him as Champion. Nope. Their completely and scarily obsessed with having Roman Reigns winning the belt at WrestleMania, that they ruin the goodwill the fans had with him, take the belt off of him, and do the exact same thing this year with a boring Triple H and a even more boring Roman Reigns. See, the problem is he's should be Batman, a silent guardian, a watchful protector for himself and for the common good. Instead he's Superman: never loses, doesn't take things seriously, jokes around, smiles, and generally gets get made to "look strong," even to the expense of everyone else. Uh, what? That's not how Superman acts at all, in the slightest. Haven't you ever seen or read any of his stories?
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Feb 23, 2016 7:49:26 GMT -5
Romans biggest faults are;
1:He's this huge Samoan bad ass character who can take chair shots and come back instantly, When you books someone as invulnerable it's hard to generate sympathy.
2:You cannot ever force the fans to like someone, This has never worked and it never will.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 7:53:30 GMT -5
Romans biggest faults are; 1:He's this huge Samoan bad ass character who can take chair shots and come back instantly, When you books someone as invulnerable it's hard to generate sympathy. 2:You cannot ever force the fans to like someone, This has never worked and it never will. Oh, come on, I'm sure if Cole screams, "HE EARNED IT!" one more time the fans will love him.
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Post by abjordans on Feb 23, 2016 7:56:22 GMT -5
Reigns biggest fault is the rise of a top babyface is traditionally a "choose your own adventure" story for the crowd. Top babyfaces are usually fist chosen by the fans, then the company gets behind them. The company getting behind someone first just doesn't work for a top face.
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Post by abjordans on Feb 23, 2016 9:16:23 GMT -5
3 Minute Warning and Manu (who sucked) weren't being groomed to be "The Guy". my point exactly. Reign's status has little to do with his kinship imo. In fact... That family is traditionally midcardwrs and tag guys, aside from Rock, who isn't even a blood relative.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 9:18:01 GMT -5
Reigns biggest fault is the rise of a top babyface is traditionally a "choose your own adventure" story for the crowd. Top babyfaces are usually fist chosen by the fans, then the company gets behind them. The company getting behind someone first just doesn't work for a top face. No, not really. The top babyface is chosen by the company because the company thinks they can make money. The exception to this rule was Daniel Bryan but nearly everyone else you can care to name has been a company favorite from day one.
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Feb 23, 2016 9:25:02 GMT -5
Well according to Glenn Gilberti, arenas are just full of 10,000 trolls.
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Post by abjordans on Feb 23, 2016 9:28:24 GMT -5
Reigns biggest fault is the rise of a top babyface is traditionally a "choose your own adventure" story for the crowd. Top babyfaces are usually fist chosen by the fans, then the company gets behind them. The company getting behind someone first just doesn't work for a top face. No, not really. The top babyface is chosen by the company because the company thinks they can make money. The exception to this rule was Daniel Bryan but nearly everyone else you can care to name has been a company favorite from day one. Bret Hart? Shawn Michaels? How about Hulk Hogan, who had a long run in WWWF and was actively held down in AWA despite his popularity? Oh, how about that Steve Austin guy? Or Cena, for that matter, who was in danger of being fired and got super over in the midcard? Diesel and Reigns are the ONLY guys to get these kind of pushes to the top under Vince.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 9:37:22 GMT -5
Bret Hart? Shawn Michaels? How about Hulk Hogan, who had a long run in WWWF and was actively held down in AWA despite his popularity? Oh, how about that Steve Austin guy? Or Cena, for that matter, who was in danger of being fired and got super over in the midcard? Diesel and Reigns are the ONLY guys to get these kind of pushes to the top under Vince. Michaels, Hart and Austin all got consistent, protected pushes that smarks of today, had the Internet been ubiquitous back then, would be wringing their hands about how "inorganic" they were. Hulk Hogan won the title within a month of his return to the WWF and was handpicked to be the centerpiece of the company. Cena debuted with a near-victory against Kurt Angle, a PPV win against Chris Jericho, and went almost immediately from "midcard comedy rapper" to feuding with the Undertaker once he changed his gimmick. To act like the company had no stakes in any of these guys, that they were so beloved that the company just went "aw shucks, I guess we have no choice but to push them!" is ridiculous.
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Post by abjordans on Feb 23, 2016 9:41:55 GMT -5
Bret Hart? Shawn Michaels? How about Hulk Hogan, who had a long run in WWWF and was actively held down in AWA despite his popularity? Oh, how about that Steve Austin guy? Or Cena, for that matter, who was in danger of being fired and got super over in the midcard? Diesel and Reigns are the ONLY guys to get these kind of pushes to the top under Vince. Michaels, Hart and Austin all got consistent, protected pushes that smarks of today, had the Internet been ubiquitous back then, would be wringing their hands about how "inorganic" they were. Hulk Hogan won the title within a month of his return to the WWF and was handpicked to be the centerpiece of the company. Cena debuted with a near-victory against Kurt Angle, a PPV win against Chris Jericho, and went almost immediately from "midcard comedy rapper" to feuding with the Undertaker once he changed his gimmick. To act like the company had no stakes in any of these guys, that they were so beloved that the company just went "aw shucks, I guess we have no choice but to push them!" is ridiculous. What?!? It is almost as if you have not been a fan for very long. Steve Austin literally had the most organic rise to the top in the history of wrestling. Hart and HBK each spent 10 years in WWF tag and midcard ranks. Hogan won the title months after returning to WWF, but that was piggybacking off the huge movement he organically built in the AWA. Cena beat Angle, did nothing, and got super over before rising up the ranks. I have to question what you are even talking about?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 10:07:57 GMT -5
What?!? It is almost as if you have not been a fan for very long. Steve Austin literally had the most organic rise to the top in the history of wrestling. Hart and HBK each spent 10 years in WWF tag and midcard ranks. Hogan won the title months after returning to WWF, but that was piggybacking off the huge movement he organically built in the AWA. Cena beat Angle, did nothing, and got super over before rising up the ranks. I have to question what you are even talking about? Winning titles in the midcard used to be a sign that a wrestler was going places, with the IC title in particular being a stepping stone. Hart and Michaels spending time in the midcard, winning belts and being treated like big deals, are signs that the company was obviously behind them - maybe they weren't immediately pegged as main event guys, but the company obviously saw something in them or they wouldn't have been consistently pushed. Austin's in that same boat - he got face pops when the company expected him to be a heel, but either way the company saw value in him and treated him like a big deal almost as soon as he became Stone Cold. Hulk Hogan returned to WWF in December of 83 and won the belt in January of 84. Cena, along with Orton and Batista around that same time, was immediately treated like a big deal and a future star. You act like these guys were random midcard schmucks who the company begrudgingly pushed due to overwhelming crowd support, but the company was always behind them.
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Post by abjordans on Feb 23, 2016 10:25:41 GMT -5
What?!? It is almost as if you have not been a fan for very long. Steve Austin literally had the most organic rise to the top in the history of wrestling. Hart and HBK each spent 10 years in WWF tag and midcard ranks. Hogan won the title months after returning to WWF, but that was piggybacking off the huge movement he organically built in the AWA. Cena beat Angle, did nothing, and got super over before rising up the ranks. I have to question what you are even talking about? Winning titles in the midcard used to be a sign that a wrestler was going places, with the IC title in particular being a stepping stone. Hart and Michaels spending time in the midcard, winning belts and being treated like big deals, are signs that the company was obviously behind them - maybe they weren't immediately pegged as main event guys, but the company obviously saw something in them or they wouldn't have been consistently pushed. Austin's in that same boat - he got face pops when the company expected him to be a heel, but either way the company saw value in him and treated him like a big deal almost as soon as he became Stone Cold. Hulk Hogan returned to WWF in December of 83 and won the belt in January of 84. Cena, along with Orton and Batista around that same time, was immediately treated like a big deal and a future star. You act like these guys were random midcard schmucks who the company begrudgingly pushed due to overwhelming crowd support, but the company was always behind them. That isn't what I am acting like. And in the case of Austin you are ignoring The Ringmaster and how he was hired to be a "mechanic". When these guys got to the top, it was because people wanted them there. Of course they had a strong presence in the company before becoming the guy. So did Daniel Bryan, who you sited in your original post. He had already been a world, tag and US Champ before the Yes Movement.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,171
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Feb 23, 2016 10:39:47 GMT -5
Winning titles in the midcard used to be a sign that a wrestler was going places, with the IC title in particular being a stepping stone. Hart and Michaels spending time in the midcard, winning belts and being treated like big deals, are signs that the company was obviously behind them - maybe they weren't immediately pegged as main event guys, but the company obviously saw something in them or they wouldn't have been consistently pushed. Austin's in that same boat - he got face pops when the company expected him to be a heel, but either way the company saw value in him and treated him like a big deal almost as soon as he became Stone Cold. Hulk Hogan returned to WWF in December of 83 and won the belt in January of 84. Cena, along with Orton and Batista around that same time, was immediately treated like a big deal and a future star. You act like these guys were random midcard schmucks who the company begrudgingly pushed due to overwhelming crowd support, but the company was always behind them. That isn't what I am acting like. And in the case of Austin you are ignoring The Ringmaster and how he was hired to be a "mechanic". When these guys got to the top, it was because people wanted them there. Of course they had a strong presence in the company before becoming the guy. So did Daniel Bryan, who you sited in your original post. He had already been a world, tag and US Champ before the Yes Movement. Also on Austin, even once he became Stone Cold it took a few months for them to get behind. The month after he won King of The Ring and gave one of the classic promos of the industry, he was on the preshow of Summerslam. The month after that, he wasn't on the Mind Games Card at all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2016 10:50:38 GMT -5
That isn't what I am acting like...when these guys got to the top, it was because people wanted them there. See, to me a comment like that implies that the fans are the sole reason those guys got a push, while I think the situation was more "the crowd happened to take really well to these guys' pushes due to a combination of good booking and good talent, so WWE continued on their planned course." Less cause-and-effect and more everything working in tandem.
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