|
Post by Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast on May 1, 2016 5:14:06 GMT -5
Most of the general audience like the people involved. Hell, Melissa McCarthy ultimately dethroned Batman V Superman in the box office. The issue with a lot of people is that a lot of this is the shady handlings of the property by Sony. If you dig deep enough you see just how horribly they meddled with the project, how they did their damnedest to take almost all power away from Ivan Reitman, and just how behind the scenes was a mess.
Midnight's Edge made a great video on this that says it better than I could
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on May 1, 2016 5:32:37 GMT -5
The trailer isn't very good.
That said, I think it's naive to pretend that the "oops, all women" factor isn't a driving force behind the particularly high levels of vitriol.
Backstage/studio exec stuff? Average viewer knows nothing about it. Studio implying misogyny behind criticisms? Average viewer knows nothing about that, either. It's getting this treatment because this is such an anticipated movie? Why not Batman v. Superman, when everybody shit all over those trailers after the first teaser? People just hate reboots? There are tons of other reboots out there, many of them highly marketed and with lame trailers, but they don't tend to be big stories.
To clarify, this isn't to say that everybody who dislikes the trailer is of that mind, nor to say that people are willfully sexist toward something like this, but social cues and behaviors are programmed pretty deeply into us, and I have no doubt that a big ticket comedy with an all-female main cast has to work harder to avoid the type of backlash it's gotten, though, again, the actual number of dislikes relative to the number of likes and overall views isn't particularly high. I'd also wager there's a simple "they changed it, now it sucks" factor that drives some nostalgia dislikes, but I don't feel it's much of a stretch to say that there's a bit of a subconscious (might be the wrong word, but it's too early for me to think harder about it) societal strain of thinking that already approaches the very concept of "Ghostbusters with women" with a negative feeling.
|
|
|
Post by Starshine on May 1, 2016 5:36:49 GMT -5
Two things I want to say about this.
1) If it wasn't called Ghostbusters, I don't think anyone would give two shits about this movie.
2) I'm all for feminism. But that's your stance, this is the wrong horse to back.
|
|
|
Post by Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast on May 1, 2016 5:37:58 GMT -5
1) If it wasn't called Ghostbusters, I don't think anyone would give two shits about this movie. Hell, given McCarthy's success, it'd just be another #1 hit for her
|
|
|
Post by Starshine on May 1, 2016 5:39:41 GMT -5
1) If it wasn't called Ghostbusters, I don't think anyone would give two shits about this movie. Hell, given McCarthy's success, it'd just be another #1 hit for her And probably be just as quickly forgotten as her last one is.
|
|
Big Poppa Pumpkin
Dennis Stamp
I'll be in the back polishing............ my belt.
Posts: 4,987
|
Post by Big Poppa Pumpkin on May 1, 2016 6:56:13 GMT -5
I like Kristen Wiig, she reminds me of my friend. Not really interested in seeing the movie though, oh well.
|
|
|
Post by Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast on May 1, 2016 7:36:57 GMT -5
I hate myself so much right now. Don't hate yourself. You're a good person and you definitely care a lot about people, at the end of the day this is a disagreement over a movie. Not really the worst thing to get upset over. And this is coming from someone you know has let themselves get worked up over frivolous things before.
|
|
jagilki
Patti Mayonnaise
Nobody notices him; No, we noticed him
f*** Cancer
Posts: 33,594
|
Post by jagilki on May 1, 2016 7:52:15 GMT -5
I haven't seen the trailer so I can't speak about how good it is.
I probably won't go to the movie but will probably watch it when/if it comes to a movie channel I get.
My choice really doesn't have much to do with the cast, more to the fact I just don't want to see a reboot/reimagining of this franchise AND the fact I live in a small town with one theater. AND movies take a while to get here. So I'm usually picky on which ones I see, reserving it mostly to ones I'm really excited about.
|
|
|
Post by Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast on May 1, 2016 8:56:33 GMT -5
The reasoning behind the massive backlash could be attributed to multiple reasons, not just the misogyny (Which, yes, there is, but it is not the ultimate reason)
Reboot fatigue Bad trailers with horrible jokes/big moments Sony's known skewering of the truth by deleting any non "Hurr durr go back to the kitchen" comments so they can knowingly get sites like Cracked and the Washington Post to spin it entirely into just angry MRA's trying to hurt dem wimmins. Sacred cow franchise being butchered
Trust me, if this wasn't Ghostbusters and instead a Back to the Future remake with some big pop star in the Marty McFly role (male or female is unimportant), we would have the same backlash that this has now. Reboots and remakes are getting old hat now and people are tired of it.
|
|
|
Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on May 1, 2016 9:01:49 GMT -5
I made the mistake of showing this trailer to a friend of mine yesterday, my best friend in fact, and he responded with an extremely childish and misogynistic tangent. I legit didn't know what to say to it, so I just said nothing. kinda regretting that.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 1, 2016 10:32:43 GMT -5
Is anyone really denying that over the top misogyny is being used by some for justification for disliking the idea of this movie? Cuz I don't really see that occurring. At most people are going: "Yeah, idiots are doing that, but even without that, this looks kinda like a shitty movie." Certainly the loudest voices are the MRA crowd, and certainly that's probably the driving force behind any sorta backlash--if you just think it looks like a bad film, the most you're going to muster is: 'well that kinda looks ike it sucks' and then get on with your life.
So, yeah, some dudes, undoubtedly a very loud portion ARE bein idiots about it and that's probably driving some vocal hate. Again, it would be disingenuous to say otherwise. But at the same time, dismissing any criticism of a flick that looks like a lazy cash in with the misogyny card is simplistic as well.
Greeting: 'Huh, that looks like it'll suck' with 'YOU HATE WOMEN! THAT'S WHY YOU WOULD THINK THAT!' is just as unreasonable and over the top a response as "WOMEN GHOSTBUSTERS! f*** THAT! NO VAGINAS ON FICTIONAL CHARACTERS!"
Certainly both are happening. Both are a little weird.
|
|
|
Post by mysterydriver on May 1, 2016 11:35:38 GMT -5
So...is there any actual proof to the whole "THEY KEEP DELETING REAL CRITICISM" thing or is that just a commonly repeated talking point? I mean besides YouTubers making videos claiming it happened to them. This movie is facing a combination of hate factors. Men who hate women having prevalent roles. Men who hate their 'heroes' being replaced by women. People who hate the idea of remakes (because as we all know, we have to burn the old copies of the originals now). People with childhood ideology that Ghostbusters is the funniest movie of all time and this movie is apparently an attempt to pull down the original by name association. Melissa McCarthy hate. Leslie Jones hate. Paul Feig hate. Sony hate. Hate in general because some people just like piling on. It's pretty much a perfect storm of multiple hate circles on a venn diagram converging. And yes, some just find the trailer unappealing. I'm sure there are thousands and thousands of people who do. But that alone doesn't lead to it being the "most disliked trailer of all time." It just doesn't. If a movie doesn't appeal to you, you don't log on to extra accounts just to dislike it again. There is a combination of coordinated hate towards this film. You may not be apart of it...but it's there. That said, I only laughed at the "It's a Cadillac" line of the trailer and felt like the tone overall was a bit off (I liked a fanmade trailer that someone re-edited thought). I didn't click dislike on the video.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Pigwell on May 1, 2016 14:12:31 GMT -5
So...is there any actual proof to the whole "THEY KEEP DELETING REAL CRITICISM" thing or is that just a commonly repeated talking point? I mean besides YouTubers making videos claiming it happened to them. This movie is facing a combination of hate factors. Men who hate women having prevalent roles. Men who hate their 'heroes' being replaced by women. People who hate the idea of remakes (because as we all know, we have to burn the old copies of the originals now). People with childhood ideology that Ghostbusters is the funniest movie of all time and this movie is apparently an attempt to pull down the original by name association. Melissa McCarthy hate. Leslie Jones hate. Paul Feig hate. Sony hate. Hate in general because some people just like piling on. It's pretty much a perfect storm of multiple hate circles on a venn diagram converging. And yes, some just find the trailer unappealing. I'm sure there are thousands and thousands of people who do. But that alone doesn't lead to it being the "most disliked trailer of all time." It just doesn't. If a movie doesn't appeal to you, you don't log on to extra accounts just to dislike it again. There is a combination of coordinated hate towards this film. You may not be apart of it...but it's there. That said, I only laughed at the "It's a Cadillac" line of the trailer and felt like the tone overall was a bit off (I liked a fanmade trailer that someone re-edited thought). I didn't click dislike on the video. Yeah this is so high on the disliked counter due to people going out of their way to do so. There's no doubt about that. I'd dare say every heavily disliked video is the same. As for deleting comments, unless we're at the point people all over the net are making false claims to bury a movie (saying that outloud sounds a lot less outlandish then it did 15 seconds ago... but might as well finish my post) I'm inclined to believe it. What proof could three possibly be outside of people reporting it happened to them when this whole thing started?
|
|
|
Post by Ash Kingston on May 1, 2016 22:05:28 GMT -5
It's kinda like what happened with the Fantastic Four reboot. While a majority of people just thought it was gonna be shit once the trailers started to come out, there were some people criticizing it for certain casting decisions (read: Johnny Storm), and - perhaps unsurprisingly - those people, even if they were a minority, were loud enough (or got their voices amplified enough) that they became the face of the criticisms. Suddenly, anyone talking negatively about the movie was racist, no matter what they were actually saying.
And then the movie came out, and it became obvious the trailer was probably the best part of the movie.
Honestly, I feel like this is pretty simple. -Amidst a sea of criticism about the quality of a trailer for a movie/video game/clown act, a few morons say something offensive. -Some news sites see the offensive tweets and blow it out of proportion, knowing that people thrive on outrage. --People rush to defend the movie, in some cases acting like all the criticism is fueled by the offending "-ism". --Other people rush to defend their opinions, which are not motivated by an "-ism". ---Morons on both sides throw about buzzwords like "SJW" and "muh freeze peach", and other stupid bullshit. -More articles come out, feeding the fire. -At some point, the studio/author/professional clown sees the criticisms and decides to help stoke the fires, because controversy creates cash or whatever. -The thing finally comes out, and two things happen. --It does well, in which case everyone involved acts smug. --It shits the bed, in which case it's because of the "-ism(s)" that started the whole mess.
...so while it might be a good movie with a shit trailer, it could equally be a shit movie with a somewhat less shit trailer. But no matter what, the well of discussion has been poisoned so much that Kefka, that insane clown bastard, thinks that it might be going overboard, and maybe we should dial it back a bit to just "lethal to ingest", not "lethal to observe".
|
|
|
Post by knightrider01 on May 1, 2016 22:54:05 GMT -5
Is anyone really denying that over the top misogyny is being used by some for justification for disliking the idea of this movie? Cuz I don't really see that occurring. At most people are going: "Yeah, idiots are doing that, but even without that, this looks kinda like a shitty movie." Certainly the loudest voices are the MRA crowd, and certainly that's probably the driving force behind any sorta backlash--if you just think it looks like a bad film, the most you're going to muster is: 'well that kinda looks ike it sucks' and then get on with your life. So, yeah, some dudes, undoubtedly a very loud portion ARE bein idiots about it and that's probably driving some vocal hate. Again, it would be disingenuous to say otherwise. But at the same time, dismissing any criticism of a flick that looks like a lazy cash in with the misogyny card is simplistic as well. Greeting: 'Huh, that looks like it'll suck' with 'YOU HATE WOMEN! THAT'S WHY YOU WOULD THINK THAT!' is just as unreasonable and over the top a response as "WOMEN GHOSTBUSTERS! f*** THAT! NO VAGINAS ON FICTIONAL CHARACTERS!" Certainly both are happening. Both are a little weird. But where is that happening at. I mean you can find it on YouTube. People bitch about everything on YouTube. You could have a video of a plate of cookies and have a bunch of jackasses complaining about it. I mean Star Wars had a movie with a female lead and is about to have another one, but they have no where near this many dislikes. I guess what I am trying to say is, I don't any of it. I have yet to see any one attack this film for having female characters outside of some scumbag places. We are being told that is what is happening but...where? This feels more like a giant campaign by a company trying to save face. Which is why they are pushing so hard all of this. Sony is literally using our guilt and feelings to push this movie. That is ****** up. And before any body calls me a crazy nut, may I remind you that a major political candidate recently paid over a million dollars to have people troll other people on reddit. Not so far outside the realm of belief that Sony would do the same to save face for a disaster they think they have on their hands, and manipulate others into defending it. Or just believe what your being told. Whatever.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on May 1, 2016 23:15:25 GMT -5
Honestly to me, the movie just looks like actresses portraying female parodies of Venkman, Ray, Egon, and Winston rather than being a re-imaging. I absolutely think an all female version of the ghostbusters would be awesome, but it should be more than "Reboot where females act like the original cast". Now it probably won't be that, but that's how the movie looks to me.
|
|
|
Post by Savage Gambino on May 2, 2016 0:28:20 GMT -5
It's more suspicious to me that this trailer would be the one that would get the most dislikes. Like...not Pixels? Not Grown Ups 2? Not ANY of the Transformers movies? Or the TMNT ones? Not even the Fantastic Four movie? Not even Batman vs. Superman, apparently the worst superhero movie ever and thing that'll kill all DC Comic book movies forever (may or may not be hyperbole)? Like...that's what makes it suspicious. Is the trailer any worse then any other movie out since YouTube put in the Like/Dislike option? No way. Really, though. Let's face it, the movie looks bad. Not horrible, but certainly nothing I would spend money on (of course, I said the same about Ride Along 2, but we all have that one friend ). Quiet as it's kept, part of my own surprise at how many dislikes the trailer has gotten is that I'm surprised it even got that many views, considering it's a reboot of a 20-year-old product with no new ideas besides changing the genders of all the lead characters. The fact that this trailer has 29 MILLION views and over 600K dislikes instead of just disappearing into the aether of movies no one wanted to see, like the trailer for Jupiter Ascending (which has only a million more views than the Honest Trailer less than a year it's junior) does seem to imply a number of people went out of their way to find this trailer and dislike it. Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if there were some corners of the internet where this trailer in particular becoming the most disliked trailer in YouTube history was an intended goal.
|
|
|
Post by Ash Kingston on May 2, 2016 2:06:11 GMT -5
I dunno, the difference there seems pretty obvious to me.
Jupiter Ascending was a new franchise that, as far as I can remember, didn't get a whole lot of media coverage one way or another. Ghostbusters is a remake/reboot/sequel/drunken clown fiesta of a popular movie franchise, that has gotten plenty of media coverage, mostly about the reaction to it online.
|
|
Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
|
Post by Reflecto on May 2, 2016 2:25:33 GMT -5
It's kinda like what happened with the Fantastic Four reboot. While a majority of people just thought it was gonna be shit once the trailers started to come out, there were some people criticizing it for certain casting decisions (read: Johnny Storm), and - perhaps unsurprisingly - those people, even if they were a minority, were loud enough (or got their voices amplified enough) that they became the face of the criticisms. Suddenly, anyone talking negatively about the movie was racist, no matter what they were actually saying. And then the movie came out, and it became obvious the trailer was probably the best part of the movie. This probably also ties to a similar sea change for pre-release complaints. With Fantastic Four, people were furious about the Johnny Storm casting and made it a huge riot just over that. Then the trailer came out, and the trailer was the best part of it. By the time the movie came out- Michael B. Jordan ended up the ONLY person in the film who actually FELT like their character (at least his Johnny Storm actually felt like he actually liked being around all three other members of the team, was friendly with all three of them, and all three of them felt like they could stand being in the same room as him for any length of time- if not the other members of the team. Considering it was Fantastic Four, the "family unit" of Marvel- that's a HUGE misfire.) By contrast, this time- people (outside the small minority of sexists) were willing to go with an all-female Ghostbusters team if the movie was good- and now, it looks like it WON'T be, and NOW people are starting to riot. If the vitriol's being moved to when the trailer comes out...that is a baby step forward.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 3:06:34 GMT -5
This movie really hit the perfect storm of hatred. First of all, it's a reboot of a beloved franchise, and people generally hate that. Secondly they're messing with the formula of who the characters are from the beloved series, and the nerds go apeshit over that. (See black Johnny Storm) Thirdly, it's casting women in roles formerly held by men, so you've got all your men's rights activists and sexists pissed off too. And finally, apparently the trailer is terrible. (I wouldn't know, I generally only watch trailers of movies I'm really excited about).
So basically you've gotbhate coming at you from four different directions. For anyone to say that "people hate it because it's a bad movie" or "people only hate it because it's a female cast"... you're wrong and you're right. There are lots of different reasons it's getting hate, but you can't downplay the others. Some if fair criticism, a lot isn't.
I'll wait until the movie actually comes out to judge it. I like the first two Ghostbusters films, but it's not a beloved series for me by any means. It's like Indiana Jones, in that I enjoyed the movies, but I don't obsess over them like people tend to do. So I'm going into it with an open mind and no expectations. And frankly I feel like if you just treat it as a standalone thing away from the originals, you could enjoy yourself. Granted the movie could suck, but it'll suck because it's a bad movie, not because the originals were great. But I know how tough it is to ignore the history, so I doubt this movie will ever get a fair shake from many many people.
Either way, I'm not worked up over it. I do feel bad for the leads because you just know they put up with a lot of shit from a lot of people unfairly. I enjoy the work of all four women and I like Paul Feig's work, but even if the movie turns out to be quite good, they still had to deal with this shitstorm.
|
|