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Post by willywonka666 on Apr 30, 2016 16:38:26 GMT -5
No one has mentioned Vince yet? I am still surprised to hear stories about how he killed other promotions by going behind their backs after deals were made. I especially want to see more of the Greg Gagne shoot about this. The clips I've watched on YouTube are fascinating
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Apr 30, 2016 16:44:08 GMT -5
No one has mentioned Vince yet? I am still surprised to hear stories about how he killed other promotions by going behind their backs after deals were made. I especially want to see more of the Greg Gagne shoot about this. The clips I've watched on YouTube are fascinating Vince interviewing Melanie Pillman on TV shortly after her husband's death, trying to get her to say things on live TV that would make it harder for her to sue.
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魔界5号
Hank Scorpio
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Post by 魔界5号 on Apr 30, 2016 17:40:57 GMT -5
No one has mentioned Vince yet? I am still surprised to hear stories about how he killed other promotions by going behind their backs after deals were made. I especially want to see more of the Greg Gagne shoot about this. The clips I've watched on YouTube are fascinating Vince not stopping the show after a man literally lost his life in the ring.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 30, 2016 18:09:14 GMT -5
Can't blame him to some extent, new japan had legit fighters, judokas and martial artists, besides pride was started by pro wrestlers. On the other hand he wanted to book Kikutaro against Alistair Overeem so there's that. The f*** did Kikutaro do to piss of Inoki? Excalibur told the story on the aow podcast, apparently Kikutaro was offered a lot of money to fight the Reem but declined because he didn't want to get killed.
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tenshi
Patti Mayonnaise
Probably more memorable than a Charlotte title reign
Posts: 33,917
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Post by tenshi on Apr 30, 2016 18:24:04 GMT -5
The f*** did Kikutaro do to piss of Inoki? Excalibur told the story on the aow podcast, apparently Kikutaro was offered a lot of money to fight the Reem but declined because he didn't want to get killed. Let's put this into perspective: Alistair Overeem kneed Kazuyuki Fujita (known as someone too tough to be knocked out) so hard on the head that he sent him into a coma for 10 minutes and he was the last man that Brock Lesnar ever fought in the UFC after Overeem kneed him in the gut. Imagine what Overeem, a man genetically designed to f*** your girlfriend, would do to Kikutaro.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 30, 2016 21:28:30 GMT -5
Everyone keeps mentioning Jose Gonzalez - was he the promoter at the time? I thought Colon was. Konnan not acting faster when Perro Aguayo was clearly in a terrible state, and later on we'd find out he was dead. He should have dragged him out of the ring there and then, put him on a stretcher, stopped the match and taken him straight to the back to wait for paramedics. Not stood with him on the apron shaking him while the match continued. That's not scumbag, that's just not comprehending what was happening at the time. And really, "dragging him out of the ring" - had he been alive at that point - could have done just as much damage. You don't start moving someone around who's seriously hurt, especially if there's a chance there's neck, head or back injuries.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 30, 2016 21:36:04 GMT -5
Despite popular opinion, TNA existing isn't a scumbag move as no-one else would have stepped in to fill that void. There were actually multiple companies that were stepping in to fill the void for the year or two after WCW and ECW folded. ROH, MLW, XWF, WWA and John Collins' MECW (now THERE is a real scumbag promoter) were all vying for contention alongside TNA in 2001 and 2002 to be the big thing to replace them.
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 13,957
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Apr 30, 2016 21:40:53 GMT -5
Everyone keeps mentioning Jose Gonzalez - was he the promoter at the time? I thought Colon was. Konnan not acting faster when Perro Aguayo was clearly in a terrible state, and later on we'd find out he was dead. He should have dragged him out of the ring there and then, put him on a stretcher, stopped the match and taken him straight to the back to wait for paramedics. Not stood with him on the apron shaking him while the match continued. That's not scumbag, that's just not comprehending what was happening at the time. And really, "dragging him out of the ring" - had he been alive at that point - could have done just as much damage. You don't start moving someone around who's seriously hurt, especially if there's a chance there's neck, head or back injuries. Pretty sure Gonzalez was the booker, and Colon was the promoter. Any promoter who books Gonzalez, and hypes him as the guy who killed Bruiser Brody.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Apr 30, 2016 22:47:35 GMT -5
Antonio Inoki putting his talent, guys who had no prior experience in MMA, in matches with legitimate mixed martial artists, putting their safety at risk and destroying their credibility in the process. Especially Nagata vs Mirko Cro Cop. Inoki's entire MMA obsession was awful but this was the stale bread on a turd sandwich. Can't blame him to some extent, new japan had legit fighters, judokas and martial artists, besides pride was started by pro wrestlers. On the other hand he wanted to book Kikutaro against Alistair Overeem so there's that. Kiku Gracie would have been so cash though.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 30, 2016 23:02:13 GMT -5
Everyone keeps mentioning Jose Gonzalez - was he the promoter at the time? I thought Colon was. Konnan not acting faster when Perro Aguayo was clearly in a terrible state, and later on we'd find out he was dead. He should have dragged him out of the ring there and then, put him on a stretcher, stopped the match and taken him straight to the back to wait for paramedics. Not stood with him on the apron shaking him while the match continued. That's not scumbag, that's just not comprehending what was happening at the time. And really, "dragging him out of the ring" - had he been alive at that point - could have done just as much damage. You don't start moving someone around who's seriously hurt, especially if there's a chance there's neck, head or back injuries. Yeah Carlos Colon was the promoter in World Wrestling Council during that time, hell I didn't saw it, but Meltzer said that Colon attempted to taint the jurors by portraying Gonzalez as the victim during the weekly shows.
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Post by One-Armed Drummer of Defrebel on Apr 30, 2016 23:21:22 GMT -5
Kikutaro vs. Alistair Overeem sounds like the best shit ever and now I'm really sad that it didn't happen.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 30, 2016 23:52:59 GMT -5
While my post was a joke, you do bring up an interesting question though. IF the Carters never stepped in and TNA died clear back then, how are we to KNOW that some other company wouldn't of stepped into it's place? For all we know maybe ROH (for example) could of ended up on Spike? TNA were able to point at the the Fox Sports show they did and use that as proof they had the infrastructure and experience in place to produce a show with okay production values 52 weeks a year, something no other (non WWE) promotion out there at the time could match and that wouldn't have happened without Dixie. RoH's production values were weak until relatively recently and the product wasn't what Spike wanted, compared to the more WWE-like TNA so it's doubtful they ever would have been considered. Fox Sports Impact happened after Dixie Carter was part of the company. Jag's point still kinda stands. Not to mention that Wrestlers on TNA's roster had to take day jobs, apply for food stamps, and were paid late multiple times kinda proves the "leave wrestling because they aren't making money" point you made earlier.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on May 1, 2016 1:45:30 GMT -5
Despite popular opinion, TNA existing isn't a scumbag move as no-one else would have stepped in to fill that void. There were actually multiple companies that were stepping in to fill the void for the year or two after WCW and ECW folded. ROH, MLW, XWF, WWA and John Collins' MECW (now THERE is a real scumbag promoter) were all vying for contention alongside TNA in 2001 and 2002 to be the big thing to replace them. This. If TNA had died with the loss of HealthSouth and Dixie Carter didn't invest, then in all likeliness another promotion just like TNA would have started up in three months- likely with most of the same cast of characters, and THAT would have been TNA (keep in mind: MLW, XWF, WWA, and MECW had very similar rosters, and all of those had a similar roster to TNA in its early days.)
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on May 1, 2016 2:00:39 GMT -5
Dario Cueto had a man killed one time. Not to mention Catrina going around licking people. That's just unsanitary.
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Post by Joe Neglia on May 1, 2016 2:13:12 GMT -5
The ugly, uncomfortable truth is that you will be very hard-pressed to find wrestling promoters who weren't scumbags on one level or another. From Gagne advertising guys on his shows that had left months prior and that he knew weren't going to be there, to McMahon shoving a camera in Melanie Pillman's face less than 48 hours after her husband was found dead to Lia Maivia (Rock's grandmother) threatening to have a competing promoter's children killed if said promoter didn't give her a cut of his show's earnings (yes, that happened). God only knows how many promoters in the business have sold a show, then skipped town with the money without the show ever happening. Or how many paid workers to do some horrible stuff (injuring workers who were on the promoter's shit list, intimidating competing promotion workers through violence, etc).
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,955
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Post by chazraps on May 1, 2016 2:24:09 GMT -5
No one has mentioned Vince yet? I am still surprised to hear stories about how he killed other promotions by going behind their backs after deals were made. I especially want to see more of the Greg Gagne shoot about this. The clips I've watched on YouTube are fascinating Vince not stopping the show after a man literally lost his life in the ring. He died in the ambulance on the way to the hospital after his heart was beating again. There's a difference there.
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on May 1, 2016 2:32:29 GMT -5
Not sure if Vince was the actual mastermind here, but a few years back WWE signed an indy wrestler called "The Last Outlaw", and had him sign over the rights to that ring name. They kept him in developmental for a bit, then shitcanned him and immediately began promoting Undertaker as "The Last Outlaw".
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2016 2:53:27 GMT -5
Would Moolah count since she was the one behind booking/promoters of her students.
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魔界5号
Hank Scorpio
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Post by 魔界5号 on May 1, 2016 2:59:12 GMT -5
Vince not stopping the show after a man literally lost his life in the ring. He died in the ambulance on the way to the hospital after his heart was beating again. There's a difference there. Doesn't really matter. The guy fell from the roof of the arena for gods sakes. The show should not have continued.
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67 more
King Koopa
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Post by 67 more on May 1, 2016 3:13:59 GMT -5
Not sure if Vince was the actual mastermind here, but a few years back WWE signed an indy wrestler called "The Last Outlaw", and had him sign over the rights to that ring name. They kept him in developmental for a bit, then shitcanned him and immediately began promoting Undertaker as "The Last Outlaw". That's the dudes own fault, WWE offered him cash first but the dude wanted a developmental contract instead.
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