Shai
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Post by Shai on Nov 29, 2017 18:13:13 GMT -5
I said this in the the infinity war thread but the fact that I grew up DC obsessed yet my entire reaction to the DCEU can be summed up by *meh* sucks. The death of Superman a character I've adored for as long as I can remember caused no emotional response. Meanwhile I had no idea who 90% of the MCU characters were before this started and I cried like a baby at a 2 minute trailer today and I'm genuinely upset at the thought of those characters suffering and dying...Warner Bros. wanted Marvel money and acclaim without putting in Marvel time and effort and they got burned. Yes Justice League will make a shit load of money...but I can bet Infinity War will blow it out of the water. Here's the thing. Had WB actually did things the Marvel way it probably would've ended up ten times worse for them. They would've been accused of copying Marvel's formula, thus resulting in more backlash. In hindsight I can understand why they wanted to do things differently and get to the team up films quickly. Also in retrospect with the exception of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman what other characters in DC can carry their own film? Aquaman is a maybe, Green Lantern is done right can do it, and Flash really only has Flashpoint and Reverse Flash to make an awesome film in my opinion. Other than that? They really don't have any characters that can carry their own stories. Superman and Batman have the most interesting rogue villains anyways. Justice League have the coolest big bads as well. I honestly would have felt better about it had they just done a Justice League movie then...it's not like people don't know who they are...Marvel wouldn't have worked just doing an Avengers movie because of the nature of the characters...it's pretty much impossible to recreate what Disney and Marvel Studios have done in my opinion...I don't think another studio would even try at this point.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Nov 29, 2017 19:00:22 GMT -5
Here's the thing. Had WB actually did things the Marvel way it probably would've ended up ten times worse for them. They would've been accused of copying Marvel's formula, thus resulting in more backlash. In hindsight I can understand why they wanted to do things differently and get to the team up films quickly. Given the source material, what better way is there of doing it? Clearly the alternative that they have used isn't working out. Batman v Superman should've done at least a billion. Justice League should be doing Avengers money. There's no shame in following in Marvel's footsteps when it's abundantly clear that the formula works. Also in retrospect with the exception of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman what other characters in DC can carry their own film? Aquaman is a maybe, Green Lantern is done right can do it, and Flash really only has Flashpoint and Reverse Flash to make an awesome film in my opinion. Other than that? They really don't have any characters that can carry their own stories. The same has been said of Marvel. Ten years ago the idea of an interconnected Marvel movie universe without the X-Men, Fantastic Four and Spider-Man raised a lot of eyebrows, yet they built the most-profitable movie franchise of all time on their B- and C-list roster.
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Nov 29, 2017 19:11:44 GMT -5
Flash has plenty of stories to make movies out of, Him only having Flashpoint & Reverse Flash is just nonsense
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Nov 29, 2017 19:15:51 GMT -5
I said this in the the infinity war thread but the fact that I grew up DC obsessed yet my entire reaction to the DCEU can be summed up by *meh* sucks. The death of Superman a character I've adored for as long as I can remember caused no emotional response. Meanwhile I had no idea who 90% of the MCU characters were before this started and I cried like a baby at a 2 minute trailer today and I'm genuinely upset at the thought of those characters suffering and dying...Warner Bros. wanted Marvel money and acclaim without putting in Marvel time and effort and they got burned. Yes Justice League will make a shit load of money...but I can bet Infinity War will blow it out of the water. Here's the thing. Had WB actually did things the Marvel way it probably would've ended up ten times worse for them. They would've been accused of copying Marvel's formula, thus resulting in more backlash. In hindsight I can understand why they wanted to do things differently and get to the team up films quickly. Also in retrospect with the exception of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman what other characters in DC can carry their own film? Aquaman is a maybe, Green Lantern is done right can do it, and Flash really only has Flashpoint and Reverse Flash to make an awesome film in my opinion. Other than that? They really don't have any characters that can carry their own stories.
Superman and Batman have the most interesting rogue villains anyways. Justice League have the coolest big bads as well. I don't buy this excuse for a single damn second. Marvel made Guardians of the Galaxy one of the most successful movie franchises of all time. After that you can't possibly make an argument that characters like Black Canary or Adam Strange can't carry a movie on their own. If you put people in charge who actually care about the character and are willing to put the effort in then any DC B, C or D-level hero can make an entertaining and successful movie.
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Nov 29, 2017 19:19:47 GMT -5
- Green Arrow - Captain Marvel - Martian Manhunter - Firestorm - Starfire (is popular from Teen Titans and could make a funny Fish out of water story) - Deathstroke - Vixen
You could easily get good movies out of these
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Nov 29, 2017 19:27:01 GMT -5
d Flash really only has Flashpoint and Reverse Flash to make an awesome film in my opinion. He has way more things than that. Flashpoint isn't even a particularly good story. and as said. The Avengers are Marvel's C Team. People were laughing at the idea that Iron Man could hold his own movie. Guardians were basically a Z-tier team that most Comic Book fans didn't even know about. The majority of DC's big characters have been around for almost a century at WORST half a century... there are tons of stories for them to mine but they wanted Marvel money and they wanted it NOW. They didn't want to deal with the whole "Build" part... just like they haven't in their movies themselves.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 19:33:11 GMT -5
d Flash really only has Flashpoint and Reverse Flash to make an awesome film in my opinion. He has way more things than that. Flashpoint isn't even a particularly good story. and as said. The Avengers are Marvel's C Team. People were laughing at the idea that Iron Man could hold his own movie. Guardians were basically a Z-tier team that most Comic Book fans didn't even know about. The majority of DC's big characters have been around for almost a century at WORST half a century... there are tons of stories for them to mine but they wanted Marvel money and they wanted it NOW. They didn't want to deal with the whole "Build" part... just like they haven't in their movies themselves. Conversely there's less baggage with relatively unknown characters. GotG, Iron Man, etc being lesser known properties probably also helped them get a better reception on certain levels because they had never really been portrayed before so there's no other films to compare them to. Not saying Marvel didn't play it VERY smart with their roll-out, because they did, but having so many characters with their first-time big screen appearances isn't the COMPLETE handicap you'd think it would be.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Nov 29, 2017 19:39:40 GMT -5
- Starfire (is popular from Teen Titans and could make a funny Fish out of water story) The problem with a Starfire movie is that DC kinda has a split personality about her. Half the people that work for DC would want a wacky Alien Girl fish out of water story. The other half want something more like her 80's interpretation where she's this free-loving, girl next door who'd also pose nude for Playboy character. The interpretations are had to rectify and given to the wrong people she could easily come off as an unlikeable ditzy bimbo.
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Nov 29, 2017 19:45:28 GMT -5
While it'd be different, I'd say introduce Starfire near the end of a Nightwing movie.
Because I think Dick Grayson and Koriand'r make a cute couple.
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Fundertaker
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Post by Fundertaker on Nov 29, 2017 19:47:08 GMT -5
- Green Arrow - Captain Marvel - Martian Manhunter - Firestorm - Starfire (is popular from Teen Titans and could make a funny Fish out of water story) - Deathstroke - Vixen You could easily get good movies out of these Heck, Stars and STRIPE would make a kickass movie I think. And it's hella time Stargirl got some spotlight.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Nov 29, 2017 19:58:09 GMT -5
Flash is inherently a fun character/concept. You wouldn't need Flashpoint or necessarily Reverse Flash to make a crowd pleasing movie; especially not Flashpoint--first, it kinda sucks, and second doing an alternate dark timeline doesn't make sense if you don't do the default timeline first.
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Shai
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Post by Shai on Nov 29, 2017 20:51:17 GMT -5
Flash is inherently a fun character/concept. You wouldn't need Flashpoint or necessarily Reverse Flash to make a crowd pleasing movie; especially not Flashpoint--first, it kinda sucks, and second doing an alternate dark timeline doesn't make sense if you don't do the default timeline first. I think they've made doing a solo Flash movie inherently harder to do by nature of the Arrowverse being what it is. If I were them I'd do a Flash movie by making the Arrowverse an alternate timeline somehow. The fact that they didn't bank on the goodwill the Arrowverse has built up over the years has always felt like a missed opportunity to me.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Nov 29, 2017 20:54:15 GMT -5
That's fair. Then again, I don't know why they didn't springboard Smallville into something more either.
Hell, I'd take Rosenbaum replacing Eisenberg RIGHT NOW. Wouldn't even need a mention or explanation; just swap em out.
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Post by DSR on Nov 29, 2017 21:03:51 GMT -5
That's fair. Then again, I don't know why they didn't springboard Smallville into something more either. Hell, I'd take Rosenbaum replacing Eisenberg RIGHT NOW. Wouldn't even need a mention or explanation; just swap em out. Smallville should've ran 4 seasons or so and then transitioned into a big screen Superman franchise.
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Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 29, 2017 21:20:31 GMT -5
That's fair. Then again, I don't know why they didn't springboard Smallville into something more either. Hell, I'd take Rosenbaum replacing Eisenberg RIGHT NOW. Wouldn't even need a mention or explanation; just swap em out. I miss Rosenbaum as Lex He was too good as him and portrayed that breakdown to "madness" very well
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Post by Savage Gambino on Nov 29, 2017 22:04:42 GMT -5
Here's the thing. Had WB actually did things the Marvel way it probably would've ended up ten times worse for them. They would've been accused of copying Marvel's formula, thus resulting in more backlash. In hindsight I can understand why they wanted to do things differently and get to the team up films quickly. Given the source material, what better way is there of doing it? Clearly the alternative that they have used isn't working out. Batman v Superman should've done at least a billion. Justice League should be doing Avengers money. There's no shame in following in Marvel's footsteps when it's abundantly clear that the formula works. For whatever it's worth, the way they did it could've worked, if they didn't put out garbage. Justice League's loss is not the fault of a bad movie, it's the fault of a studio having a track record of troubled production leading to mediocre films, save for Wonder Woman. If 1) Batman v Superman was handled by a more competent director and team, 2) they nixed Suicide Squad (honestly, who's idea was it to put that in the line up) and replaced it with something in line more with the main story line, and 3) just showed more cohesion and competence in general, there's no reason Justice League couldn't have outgrossed the first Avengers movie. As has been stated repeatedly in this thread, most of the Justice League needs no introduction, and if handled right, the Trinity should sell tickets all on their own. Which is also why I'd honestly say, damn Batman versus Superman, if you want them in a movie together do World's Finest, but I digress.
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Shai
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Post by Shai on Nov 29, 2017 22:15:50 GMT -5
Given the source material, what better way is there of doing it? Clearly the alternative that they have used isn't working out. Batman v Superman should've done at least a billion. Justice League should be doing Avengers money. There's no shame in following in Marvel's footsteps when it's abundantly clear that the formula works. For whatever it's worth, the way they did it could've worked, if they didn't put out garbage. Justice League's loss is not the fault of a bad movie, it's the fault of a studio having a track record of troubled production leading to mediocre films, save for Wonder Woman. If 1) Batman v Superman was handled by a more competent director and team, 2) they nixed Suicide Squad (honestly, who's idea was it to put that in the line up) and replaced it with something in line more with the main story line, and 3) just showed more cohesion and competence in general, there's no reason Justice League couldn't have outgrossed the first Avengers movie. As has been stated repeatedly in this thread, most of the Justice League needs no introduction, and if handled right, the Trinity should sell tickets all on their own. Which is also why I'd honestly say, damn Batman versus Superman, if you want them in a movie together do World's Finest, but I digress. And that's why WB is just plain incompetent where the DCEU is concerned. They could not manage to do with their A squad what Marvel did without the characters most people thought of when you said Marvel Comics. Marvel did so good with their C list and below characters that they managed to get Sony to work with them and now we have probably the best movie Spiderman ever.
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riseofsetian1981
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Nov 29, 2017 22:44:12 GMT -5
Here's the thing. Had WB actually did things the Marvel way it probably would've ended up ten times worse for them. They would've been accused of copying Marvel's formula, thus resulting in more backlash. In hindsight I can understand why they wanted to do things differently and get to the team up films quickly. Also in retrospect with the exception of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman what other characters in DC can carry their own film? Aquaman is a maybe, Green Lantern is done right can do it, and Flash really only has Flashpoint and Reverse Flash to make an awesome film in my opinion. Other than that? They really don't have any characters that can carry their own stories.
Superman and Batman have the most interesting rogue villains anyways. Justice League have the coolest big bads as well. I don't buy this excuse for a single damn second. Marvel made Guardians of the Galaxy one of the most successful movie franchises of all time. After that you can't possibly make an argument that characters like Black Canary or Adam Strange can't carry a movie on their own. If you put people in charge who actually care about the character and are willing to put the effort in then any DC B, C or D-level hero can make an entertaining and successful movie. Truth be told, while Iron Man at the time wasn't on the level as say Spider-Man or X-Men movie wise. He was still a fairly well known character just based off of Civil War alone. He wasn't some unknown character. As for Guardians? You're right. But I stand by my opinion that when it comes to DC you're most interesting and bankable characters are Superman, Batman, and now Wonder Woman.
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on Nov 30, 2017 0:31:32 GMT -5
I was reading Vanity Fair's article looking back at the first Iron Man and this quote seemed to sum up, to me, why the DCU has failed so poorly in contrast to Marvel:
Kevin Feige:
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Nov 30, 2017 17:06:04 GMT -5
Just saw it. Not great, not terrible. I'd give it a 6/10.
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