krozor
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,381
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Post by krozor on Aug 1, 2016 18:02:28 GMT -5
Most wrestlers use all the power they have to go over others, even when they shouldn't, because they want to get paid and are doing it on someone else's dime.
HHH is arguably the only worker who stood to greatly benefit from putting others over - thus making more and bigger stars to increase the popularity and long-term financial success of the company he was going to basically inherit - and still decided "Nah, I'd rather go over" time and time again.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Aug 1, 2016 18:32:19 GMT -5
It depends. A lot of the Triple H stuff is rumors or second hand info. Vince has done a great deal of petty nonsense on camera for all to see.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Aug 2, 2016 0:25:23 GMT -5
I'm going off the board and voting for Stephanie, a person who is so petty, that she won't even allow a fictionalized version of herself to look weak; a person so petty that she constantly needles her brother even though it takes the flow out of the show; a person so petty that she has put "into place" every single wrestler on that roster numerous times.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 6:02:33 GMT -5
Which one told Chris Amann to sue CM Punk and then put a 5 minute video of zooms on his ass on the website? Because that one. I hate to be that guy, but why is it that Dr. Amann should not be allowed to sue for defamation of character whenever he's brought up around here? Okay, I know its because some people view Punk still as this God and it went horribly wrong, but it wasn't like this guy had a track record of quackery.
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
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Member is Online
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Post by chrom on Aug 4, 2016 9:39:02 GMT -5
Which one told Chris Amann to sue CM Punk and then put a 5 minute video of zooms on his ass on the website? Because that one. I hate to be that guy, but why is it that Dr. Amann should not be allowed to sue for defamation of character whenever he's brought up around here? Okay, I know its because some people view Punk still as this God and it went horribly wrong, but it wasn't like this guy had a track record of quackery. Punk had had a large welt on his lower back and Amann had given him Zithromax Z-pak for it, but it turned out to not work and so Punk went to a different doctor outside of WWE who told him that he had MRSA and that which he had been given did nothing to treat it and that he could've been killed from it due to his workstyle.
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RIHT
Hank Scorpio
Wanted a title with "YOU'RE WELCOME!" Close enough.
Hey-yo.
Posts: 5,897
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Post by RIHT on Aug 4, 2016 10:22:14 GMT -5
If Triple H can bring CM Punk back someday, then I think he's truly the fair and progressive boss he is portrayed as.
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Psychoblue
Don Corleone
WrestleCrap #1 Kona Crush mark (probably)
Posts: 1,664
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Post by Psychoblue on Aug 4, 2016 12:15:54 GMT -5
People are always quick to single out ENOS, but there was also a factor of where RAW was being shown that day. Since WWE had to leave their Denver booking due to the scheduling conflict, Vince instead booked RAW to be in the arena that held the team that the Nuggets were locked into a playoff series at the time, the Lakers. The bits about making fun of the Nuggets owner and the main event could be excused because the Nuggets were at the time the Lakers' current obstacle in the playoffs and could have been done to please the live crowd.
Now if the exact same turn of the events happened and RAW was coming from, say, Chicago, then yeah...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 13:31:03 GMT -5
People are always quick to single out ENOS, but there was also a factor of where RAW was being shown that day. Since WWE had to leave their Denver booking due to the scheduling conflict, Vince instead booked RAW to be in the arena that held the team that the Nuggets were locked into a playoff series at the time, the Lakers. The bits about making fun of the Nuggets owner and the main event could be excused because the Nuggets were at the time the Lakers' current obstacle in the playoffs and could have been done to please the live crowd. Now if the exact same turn of the events happened and RAW was coming from, say, Chicago, then yeah... The problem is that while you could present a case of bias due to being shafted out of an arena, the problem is the fact that the media, for once, gave Vince McMahon, of all people, the high ground in a position, and he instead chose to take the low road by openly mocking a guy who, for all purposes, shares similar beliefs that McMahon does about business, and devoting a 10 minute skit on the guy's real first name alone.
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Post by corndog on Aug 4, 2016 14:08:31 GMT -5
I don't think it's really a fair comparison. Vince's pettiness has been for his multi-million (even billion) dollar company, the product of his entire life's work, spending and sacrifice. I think in his position, I'd be protective of my company and my industry to petty levels. Triple H's pettiness is entirely self-serving because of his own insecurity. But what about the inverse? Vince McMahon's pettiness has cost his company money and involved putting on terrible segments just to use a television show he writes to embarrass caricatures of people who have slighted him, not to mention had a negative impact on the careers of people who had the gall to work for WCW when it was bought out by way of making sure that few of them were ever treated as worth as much as they had been in WCW. It's a pettiness that has nothing to do with protecting his business and everything to do with inadvertantly costing it. By contrast, Triple H's pettiness is relegated entirely to wanting people to think his wrestling character is as good and legendary as he does. It's a much healthier exercise in ego for someone who's spent years at the top of a business where you can really only name a short handful of people at best who managed to reach the top without having an oversized ego. Exactly, it's Vince and it isn't even close. Sure HHH had a massive ego and wants to be remembered as one of the best ever, but could you imagine how Bret Hart would book himself? Most top guys have pretty large egos, and while HHH's reign of terror didn't help the company it wasn't like he purposely booked himself that way to hurt the company. Vince, time and time again, has preferred to be right and do it his way, despite it losing money. Once Vince beat WCW, this became incredibly apparent as there was no competition for him to worry about and stop him. Look at the top stars that came in after the attitude era, Orton, Cena, and Batista. No indy backgrounds, purely developed by the WWE, which was true for even a lot of the midcarders of the era. Vince had to be the master and creator. Then of course the incidents, the invasion angle and the NBA ordeal. Most recently, Titus O' Neil touched Vince McMahon and he suspended him for 60 days! How do you even defend that at all!? While Vince's "chip on his shoulder" helped him build the WWE in a world wide promotion, you would think it would die down after all these years, not actually become worse. At least in recent years, we have seen HHH put his ego aside and now that in ring career is coming to an end I think it will die down a lot.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Aug 4, 2016 16:57:09 GMT -5
Which one told Chris Amann to sue CM Punk and then put a 5 minute video of zooms on his ass on the website? Because that one. I hate to be that guy, but why is it that Dr. Amann should not be allowed to sue for defamation of character whenever he's brought up around here? Okay, I know its because some people view Punk still as this God and it went horribly wrong, but it wasn't like this guy had a track record of quackery. Because I don't think Punk is stupid enough to waste the money won in a rare court victory against WWE by defaming someone. Punk does have the physical evidence of a MRSA in the dent in his ass, and "Doctor Bateman" to back him up too.
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Post by bmfjules on Aug 5, 2016 20:17:52 GMT -5
Read as "Who's been more pretty..."
Tough call between Vince's old school pompadour and bombastic suits and Triple H's cute little french aristocrat gimmick.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 20:45:40 GMT -5
Was Vince ever petty during the Hulkamania era?
I asked because someone in the thread brought up earlier that all of Vince's crimes came after.
Forever example, 1993-1999, before the WWF went public. Vince seemed more open to wrestlers opinions back then, at least to the Kliq.
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Post by xCompackx on Aug 5, 2016 22:48:34 GMT -5
I hate to be that guy, but why is it that Dr. Amann should not be allowed to sue for defamation of character whenever he's brought up around here? Okay, I know its because some people view Punk still as this God and it went horribly wrong, but it wasn't like this guy had a track record of quackery. Punk had had a large welt on his lower back and Amann had given him Zithromax Z-pak for it, but it turned out to not work and so Punk went to a different doctor outside of WWE who told him that he had MRSA and that which he had been given did nothing to treat it and that he could've been killed from it due to his workstyle. The thing is, and I'm not saying Punk was or wasn't being truthful, but how do we know that Punk's growth was intentionally misdiagnosed? Even if the argument is "Amann should've known the difference/what to do" (which is a perfectly valid argument), isn't it remotely possible that Punk, after all we've heard about his attitude backstage, maybe embellish/hide a couple of details that a doctor might want to know? I mean, it's pretty damn easy to downplay an injury or illness to a physician, especially in a business where getting sidelined means you don't get paid. Now, if Punk was demanding it be removed and Amann clearly wasn't going to do it, that's definitely something to call him out for. It's just that the only accounts we really know are Punk's claims that it was malpractice and Amann's claims that it wasn't malpractice so until something's decided legally, I don't know how much hate Amann deserves.
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Post by Urfarkendarf on Aug 8, 2016 2:11:00 GMT -5
Was Vince ever petty during the Hulkamania era? I asked because someone in the thread brought up earlier that all of Vince's crimes came after. Forever example, 1993-1999, before the WWF went public. Vince seemed more open to wrestlers opinions back then, at least to the Kliq. As far as the Hulkamania era, I'm sure he was petty i.e. he was with Warrior, but Warrior was equally petty. I'm sure theres other instances, but nothing stands out. He had to be that way with the Kliq though. Diesel and Shawn were two of the biggest stars at the time of the Kliq's height, and Hall wasn't far behind. HHH was largely still new, but he was in line for a big push before the Curtain Call. Vince had no choice with them having the option to run to WCW. Wrestling was in the shitter across the board during those days as well. No matter how bad WWE has seemingly been post-Attitude era, it's never gotten to those lows. There's only one thing anyone has to point at for an answer to the OP question: The Invasion. Vince literally had the opportunity to create the single greatest angle in the history of professional wrestling if he had just a. been patient and b. not buried the talent from WCW that he did have the availability of. Instead it was this hackneyed, hotshotted, forgettable POS that allowed Vince his Alexander The Great moment. The Invasion should've been a year long build to it culminating at a Wrestlemania with WCW's biggest stars on board. It was treated as a "get it done and over with" couple of months angle. The amount of money Vince left on the table is sickening. It should surprise no one that The Invasion PPV is the highest grossing non-Mania PPV they've ever done. That includes all Summerslams, Rumbles etc. Had Vince treated the angle with even the slightest bit of respect, it probably would've broken PPV and gate records that would still stand to this day or at least be right up there with the upper echelon. The answer is Vince and I dont think there's even a competition.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Aug 8, 2016 5:00:21 GMT -5
There's only one thing anyone has to point at for an answer to the OP question: The Invasion. Vince literally had the opportunity to create the single greatest angle in the history of professional wrestling if he had just a. been patient and b. not buried the talent from WCW that he did have the availability of. Instead it was this hackneyed, hotshotted, forgettable POS that allowed Vince his Alexander The Great moment. The Invasion should've been a year long build to it culminating at a Wrestlemania with WCW's biggest stars on board. It was treated as a "get it done and over with" couple of months angle. The amount of money Vince left on the table is sickening. It should surprise no one that The Invasion PPV is the highest grossing non-Mania PPV they've ever done. That includes all Summerslams, Rumbles etc. Had Vince treated the angle with even the slightest bit of respect, it probably would've broken PPV and gate records that would still stand to this day or at least be right up there with the upper echelon. The answer is Vince and I dont think there's even a competition. I came in to post this. I know that Triple H's run on top of Raw has a correlation with business starting to sink (although lest we forget, ratings are at all-time lows now with a lot of our favourite guys getting pushes), but that is a drop in the ocean compared to the InVasion. Vince's pettiness around WCW and ECW, his inability to put his personal feelings aside, killed what should have been the most financially and critically successful angle in the history of all of pro-wrestling, not just in North America. There was BILLIONS he could have made. the InVasion PPV, which on the basis of Booker T, DDP, two dozen WCW midcarders (many of which I'm a fan of, but even so) and two ex-ECW signings drew 750,000 buys. For a July show with no name heritage and if I remember rightly, only one midcard title on the line, that is absolutely insane. It's still the biggest-drawing non-Mania show and I think actually outsold something like 25 of the Manias in history even to this day? Triple H beat a lot of guys we like, and yeah that sucks. Vince all but killed the entire industry we loved through his pettiness. I think Vince is worse.
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Post by Urfarkendarf on Aug 8, 2016 18:15:18 GMT -5
There's only one thing anyone has to point at for an answer to the OP question: The Invasion. Vince literally had the opportunity to create the single greatest angle in the history of professional wrestling if he had just a. been patient and b. not buried the talent from WCW that he did have the availability of. Instead it was this hackneyed, hotshotted, forgettable POS that allowed Vince his Alexander The Great moment. The Invasion should've been a year long build to it culminating at a Wrestlemania with WCW's biggest stars on board. It was treated as a "get it done and over with" couple of months angle. The amount of money Vince left on the table is sickening. It should surprise no one that The Invasion PPV is the highest grossing non-Mania PPV they've ever done. That includes all Summerslams, Rumbles etc. Had Vince treated the angle with even the slightest bit of respect, it probably would've broken PPV and gate records that would still stand to this day or at least be right up there with the upper echelon. The answer is Vince and I dont think there's even a competition. I came in to post this. I know that Triple H's run on top of Raw has a correlation with business starting to sink (although lest we forget, ratings are at all-time lows now with a lot of our favourite guys getting pushes), but that is a drop in the ocean compared to the InVasion. Vince's pettiness around WCW and ECW, his inability to put his personal feelings aside, killed what should have been the most financially and critically successful angle in the history of all of pro-wrestling, not just in North America. There was BILLIONS he could have made. the InVasion PPV, which on the basis of Booker T, DDP, two dozen WCW midcarders (many of which I'm a fan of, but even so) and two ex-ECW signings drew 750,000 buys. For a July show with no name heritage and if I remember rightly, only one midcard title on the line, that is absolutely insane. It's still the biggest-drawing non-Mania show and I think actually outsold something like 25 of the Manias in history even to this day? Triple H beat a lot of guys we like, and yeah that sucks. Vince all but killed the entire industry we loved through his pettiness. I think Vince is worse. When I posted last night I looked at a list of grossing PPVs that was published in 2013, and it was 15th, its probably 17th or 18th now but still only has been outdone by Manias. HHH beating guys doesn't bother me. He's a worker. The guys he beat still had their careers and many of them still had lots of success. I would argue that Hogan was far worse than even HHH in terms of pettiness. Hogan's the guy that would lose a match and still do everything he could to make sure he had the spotlight and legitimately take away from the winner (he did this as a heel AND a face), or do things like forcing higher ups to put Ed Leslie in a headline match at Starrcade with him. Hogan's also the same guy that would pull the "I ain't losing to him" sort of carny nonsense. At the very least HHH would do a job when it called for it and largely did it extremely well so both guys came out stronger. Seriously, I watch some of the old WWF PPVs these days and Hogan is the mega-superstar babyface and he does shit that heels would do just for attention. Its literally insane. The Invasion though, f***ing hell. If I'm Vince, I let that thing slow burn. I spend the money to buy out the contracts of the bigger stars if need be and do anything I can to get guys like Sting and Goldberg on board. A year after the purchase of WCW, push it into high gear and book Mania at the Georgia Dome and really stick it to Turner on his own soil (so you can have your petty moment) and give us a real Invasion. What we got was largely a travesty.
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