Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 4, 2017 19:27:58 GMT -5
That helps me segue into mine. I like Jimmy Hart as a manager more than Heenan. I'll do you one better, Jimmy Hart got his guys over more than Heenan ever did!!! Most of Heenan's guys were already over when he started managing them (Andre, Perfect, Flair, etc), while Jimmy Hart got many guys over who had no business getting over (Honky Tonk, Rougeaus, Danny Davis, etc). Hart's trademark jackets also helped get his guys over. I agree to an extent, but I do think Heenan still added a dimension to his prospects, even if he didn't always elevate people.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 4, 2017 21:13:17 GMT -5
Less is more if you want a guy to draw. No matter how big the name is, they're going to start losing their shine if they're wrestling on TV 52 weeks a year and putting them in matches against their upcoming PPV opponents only accelerates that. Scarlet Johansson is a big box office draw, but if you put her on a show like say, CSI for a few seasons, while the ratings will be amazing at first, 10-15 weeks in they'll be a fraction of that because familiarity breeds contempt.
I'm not saying the champ should never be on TV like Brock or Hulk in 1993, but they shouldn't be having televised singles matches and dominate airtime every week.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 6, 2017 9:36:05 GMT -5
Chavo Guerrero Jr was a good performer. While he wasn't quite as good as Eddie, he was good in the ring and great at character work, be it crazy guy, bitter veteran or stereotypical white guy and that seems to have been forgotten because it's fun to make fun of the rare times people have tried to paint him as being a big deal. He's someone who would have won belts in WCW and the WWE without Eddie's presence.
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Jan 6, 2017 12:27:43 GMT -5
Bret's heel persona was his best ever. Rather than being outraged at the Attitude Era's content, he would have been awesomely placed in the WWF to be the natural enemy to guys like Austin, DX, the Rock etc...as a self-righteous and hypocritical prick. Give me that Bret Hart over the "I'm a role model and hero" shit any day. Which heel persona? Jimmy Hart-era Bret or I Hate America Bret, because both were awesome in their own way.
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Post by Ludwig Kaiser’s Walk on Jan 6, 2017 15:33:26 GMT -5
Asuka is just eh to me
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 6, 2017 23:00:45 GMT -5
Bret's heel persona was his best ever. Rather than being outraged at the Attitude Era's content, he would have been awesomely placed in the WWF to be the natural enemy to guys like Austin, DX, the Rock etc...as a self-righteous and hypocritical prick. Give me that Bret Hart over the "I'm a role model and hero" shit any day. Which heel persona? Jimmy Hart-era Bret or I Hate America Bret, because both were awesome in their own way. His anti-America/pro-rest of the world gimmick.
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Post by ADudeThatIsAwesome on Jan 7, 2017 0:47:18 GMT -5
New guy here, and I'll probably make a ton of enemies here, but Shawn Michaels, is the single most over-rated wrestler of all time. It's so funny to me that fans now adays criticise the WWE for pushing Roman or Cena down their throats, but HBK in '96?
He gets almost universal praise and I've never understood it. Bret to me, was always better and as for other wrestlers who wrestled his "flashy" style? Eddie Guerrerro, X-Pac, Jericho, they all did it BETTER. WWE has crafted no better myth then the myth that HBK is the GOAT.
Another one, any one who wants Chris Benoit in the WWE HOF should be locked up.
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Post by grungesmurf on Jan 7, 2017 13:52:46 GMT -5
New guy here, and I'll probably make a ton of enemies here, but Shawn Michaels, is the single most over-rated wrestler of all time. It's so funny to me that fans now adays criticise the WWE for pushing Roman or Cena down their throats, but HBK in '96? He gets almost universal praise and I've never understood it. Bret to me, was always better and as for other wrestlers who wrestled his "flashy" style? Eddie Guerrerro, X-Pac, Jericho, they all did it BETTER. WWE has crafted no better myth then the myth that HBK is the GOAT. Another one, any one who wants Chris Benoit in the WWE HOF should be locked up. You'll only get praise from me on that post.
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Post by Ludwig Kaiser’s Walk on Jan 7, 2017 14:00:46 GMT -5
New guy here, and I'll probably make a ton of enemies here, but Shawn Michaels, is the single most over-rated wrestler of all time. It's so funny to me that fans now adays criticise the WWE for pushing Roman or Cena down their throats, but HBK in '96? He gets almost universal praise and I've never understood it. Bret to me, was always better and as for other wrestlers who wrestled his "flashy" style? Eddie Guerrerro, X-Pac, Jericho, they all did it BETTER. WWE has crafted no better myth then the myth that HBK is the GOAT. Another one, any one who wants Chris Benoit in the WWE HOF should be locked up. I'll only say a couple things: I think he was much better when he came back in 2002, as I wasn't a big fan of his early work. And I disagree with the X-Pac point, but pretty agree with the rest of this post.
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Post by chronocross on Jan 7, 2017 14:25:08 GMT -5
Hade Vansen feuding with Taker would have been horrible.
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Post by pjthestampede on Jan 7, 2017 23:10:49 GMT -5
-Kenny Omega is getting way overrated and overhyped, especially by Meltzer, who people take his opinion as fact. A good amount of the hype and praise of Omega is glorified due to his run not being in the WWE and others wanting to sound and be "cool" and a "know it all/smart" by saying he is the best in the world and that the Okada-Omega match being the best match ever.
-Monty Brown would/could have been on the same level of stardom as John Cena & Batista if he had the WWE machine behind him late 2004/early 2005.
-Keiji Mutoh as the gray haired hog post Great Muta>his entire Great Muta run.
-Samoa Joe hasn't been great nor that good since 2003-2006 during his ROH/TNA and has been past his prime for a long time and living off of his past run.
-Kevin Owens/Steen has been the most overrated wrestler of the 2010's decade. I don't get where or how he is this great talker, which has been his rep since his ROH days and I don't see it, the way he talks and his promos are so ordinary and not really special. Is it because he yells? Also, your world champion of your promotion should not look like your ordinary fan. If your world champion looks like a fan, than it shows literally that anybody can be a world champion, which shouldn't be the case imo.
-America's Most Wanted>Beer Money. AMW had a serious and bad ass tag team feel to it, plus Chris Harris>Bobby Roode before Roode's 2011 heel turn on Storm.
-2005/2006 TNA was better than any WWE years/time post Monday Night Wars imo.
-Kevin Nash's TNA run with the PCS challenege>his WWF/E run.
-I prefer wrestlers that are limited wrestlers, but are great on the mic than wrestlers that are great in the ring, but are limited on the mic.
-Vince Russo should get a lot of credit for the success of Stone Cold and the Attitude Era imo. Look at how the WWE booked Stone Cold when Russo left and when Austin returned from surgery in late 2000 compared to when Russo was still the head writer from 1997-1999. The WWE practically didn't know what the hell to do with Stone Cold, which was one of the reasons why the WWE turned Austin heel at WM 17 as a way to refresh Austin. Also, was one of the reasons why Austin walked out on the WWE in 2002 because they didn't know what to do with Stone freaking Cold. Austin's character was THE perfect match with Russo's crash TV style/playbook, as the Stone Cold character and the Rock character wouldn't have been as successful in any other era or time in wrestling imo. Russo has a lot of obvious flaws, which is well documented, but his style of booking is similar to any head coach in sports, as you need the talent in order for your playbook/gameplan to be successful.
-2000-2003 Kane is better than any run Undertaker had in the WWE and a much, much more consistent worker on a weekly and monthly basis than Taker ever was as well.
-War Machine>Road Warriors
-Billy & Chuck had potential to be a great tag team that the WWE completely missed the boat on.
-I thought at the time that Tazz should have been the one that ran over Stone Cold. Now in hindsight, thought that Chris Jericho should have been the driver that ran over Austin if they weren't going to go all the way with Jericho as a babyface with Rock & Austin still around would have made the most sense, especially knowing how great of a heel Jericho became later on.
-ECW and hardcore wrestling was the worst thing to ever happen to the wrestling business.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 11, 2017 8:57:47 GMT -5
There is such a thing as a longevity pop. Once a wrestler has been in a company over a certain length of time, people will pop for them just because they know them, they remember their matches from when they first started watching the product and have been a constant on a roster that seems to change completely every 2-3 years. Hardcore Holly was a big recipient of this, Funaki, Scotty 2 Hotty and so on, but it's not just jobbers who benefit, Kane, Show and Randy Orton have too, unfortunately the WWE is prone to mistaking the longevity pop for genuine excitement from the paying audience.
It's the job of a booker to make the most of what they have, charismatic guy with bad ring skills, ring general with bad mic skills, both can be cornerstones of a great product if you cover for them, but the WWE would rather expose people in the hope that will somehow spur them to improve, without giving them much opportunity to do so.
I find matches with guys who work as heavyweights consistently overselling rather hard to watch, Shawn Michaels used to sell like someone punching a pool toy, which is great for a comedy wrestler, not so great for someone they were pushing to the world title.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 17, 2017 12:09:45 GMT -5
I don't believe Jim Herd's reputation was entirely deserved and Crockett, Ole Anderson and Dusty were just as bad for WCW as he was. Were his ideas bad? Absolutely, but talent could and did say no. Many of the 'draws' WCW had weren't drawing well enough to justify the money they were on, nevermind what they thought they were worth and actively worked against attempts to make new stars.
Raw needs a TV title, putting it around the waist of workhorses and future stars then having them go out and defend it on TV each week would help at least a portion of those 3 hours feel like they actually matter, and could be used as a springboard for younger talent to begin their ascent up the card.
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Post by Nickybojelais on Jan 19, 2017 11:49:45 GMT -5
Gordon Solie's commentary is very boring
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malloc
Mephisto
asian cookbook
Posts: 747
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Post by malloc on Jan 19, 2017 12:29:20 GMT -5
I love wrestling but never have time to watch it yet spend hours reading this board, however when I do watch WWE I find it boring.
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Post by chronocross on Jan 19, 2017 14:56:20 GMT -5
I'm glad Lawler came back and replaced Heyman in the announce booth in 2001.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jan 19, 2017 20:30:10 GMT -5
- Current New Japan, if you really look at it, is campy as hell. The presentation is decidedly different from the WWE in many ways, and more sports oriented, but the roster is full of outrageous characters. Takahashi is an unstable creep. Okada is incredibly flamboyant. Tanahashi is a shonen anime hero come to life. Taguchi's out there dancing and butt ramming guys. Yano is a wacky, cheating goofball. Suzuki-Gun's back. The Bullet Club are a bunch of comic book villains, led by a madman in Omega and his slimy sidekicks the Bucks. Naito and Los Ingobernables are a bunch of freaks. KUSHIDA has a gimmick based on an 80's movie. There's Tiger Mask and Jushin Liger as mainstays. Makabe, just look at him.
They're waaaaay more theatrical and "sports entertainment-ish" than they- and especially All Japan as well- were back in the 1990s. That's not a critique, I think they're striking a nice balance between a pure wrestling product and the "spectacle " element.
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malloc
Mephisto
asian cookbook
Posts: 747
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Post by malloc on Jan 25, 2017 17:41:30 GMT -5
Regardless of all the hashtags and hype train, I still do not give two rats behinds about women wrestling. If that makes me misogynistic in some peoples eyes so be it. I have tried to get into it, but I just can't. Finding something boring doesn't make you a misogynist. If it's deeper than that then maybe but from the what you said you gave it a shot but don't like it. I don't like watching women's football all that much but they can play all they like. As the standard gets better more people watch but not everyone will enjoy.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 26, 2017 10:46:19 GMT -5
I'm glad Lawler came back and replaced Heyman in the announce booth in 2001. Yeah, I really disliked Heyman's commentating at the time. I haven't went back and listened to it since... but I found his voice kinda grating throughout the entire broadcast.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 26, 2017 11:49:27 GMT -5
The current generation of WWE stars are going to leave the company with as many issues as the last as the Wellness policy is worthless when it comes to painkiller usage. According to former talents like Val Venis (via CagesideSeats), they test for the presence of painkillers but not dosage and as long as you have submitted a prescription beforehand, you get a pass whether you take one a day, or 60. Talent only go to rehab when THEY admit they have a problem, and given what happened to Chris Masters I've little doubt that's seen as career suicide. Chris Masters returns slimmer and healthier after rehab for painkillers and to reward him, they had him job repeatedly to Super Crazy. They can test for whatever they want, but nothing is going to change until they stop punishing talent for taking time off when they get injured and rushing them back from surgery.
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