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Post by Back to being Cenanuff on Sept 1, 2016 7:58:45 GMT -5
When Dwayne Johnson debuted as Rocky Maivia, he was a super face that was just happy to be in the WWF. He got hated on hard, and in later interviews would say that this character was proof that you can smile too much.
Diamond Dallas Page's run in the WWE seemed to add weight to The Rock's assertion.
Has Bayley disproven this mindset?
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Post by Push R Truth on Sept 1, 2016 8:01:19 GMT -5
No. Rock was punchable cheesey as Rocky.
Bayley feels more... legit happy?
It's kinda like comparing Undertaker Evil to Abyss Evil. One feels right, one feels like a bad joke. I think it's safe to say it's just another "IT" factor that's hard to quantify.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 8:29:35 GMT -5
Society has changed. Put Bayley in 1997 WWF and she would been rejected as well.
White meat babyfaces have a much better platform to get over today than they did 20 years ago. As long as it's not a forced push like Reigns.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 8:32:21 GMT -5
It's a mix of things. Rock was overpushed like crazy to be honest, was relying on ring work when he was pretty damn new (and even after he got a few years experience really was never all that great in the ring), looked absolutely stupid, and wasn't getting to show any of his actual charisma at all.
The time period didn't help to be sure but I think there are a lot more reasons Rocky Maivia failed than just, "Smiling good guys don't work," or, "The Attitude Era fans hated everything wholesome."
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 1, 2016 8:35:42 GMT -5
Context matters, I'd say.
Rocky Maivia's problem as a character wasn't so much that he smiled too much, it's that he smiled too much for seemingly no damn reason. He'd just go out, have his matches, be called a "blue chipper", and that was about the extent of things.
Bayley's demeanor, meanwhile, is actually incorporated into her character, feuds, and storylines, which gives it much needed context.
I'll also agree that a bit of it is the move away from the late 90s era of "EXTREEEEEME!" pop culture.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 1, 2016 9:07:42 GMT -5
Society has changed. Put Bayley in 1997 WWF and she would been rejected as well. White meat babyfaces have a much better platform to get over today than they did 20 years ago. As long as it's not a forced push like Reigns. I'm so happy this sea change happened. Bayley's one of the most engaging faces I've seen in a while. I rarely rewatch much Attitude era wrestling nowadays, and- maybe this is kind of unfair- watching TNA's crappy attempts at anti-heroes have burned me on ultra-edgy faces for a while. After watching Samoa Joe at one point run around, totally out of shape and wearing those ugly "Nation of Violence " pants, hold a knife.....a KNIFE....to Scott Steiner's throat, threaten his life, and then listening to Mike Tenay try to sell Joe as some sort of avenging hero, I was beyond done. Give me a million smiling boy scouts and colorful dancing baby faces over that any day.
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Post by ronin705 on Sept 1, 2016 9:07:52 GMT -5
I'll never count ddps wwe run as canon, as we all know the "invasion" was just a well dressed burial angle.
As for Bayley, she's not just all smiles, and the RAW fans will learn that as it *gasps* plays out over time!! Lol
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 9:26:14 GMT -5
Rocky's problem wasn't so much the smiling as it was that he had that air of "LOVE HIM, DAMMIT" that turned people away.
I'd say that Roman Reigns is a more apt comparison than Bayley.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 9:44:55 GMT -5
Rocky's problem wasn't so much the smiling as it was that he had that air of "LOVE HIM, DAMMIT" that turned people away. I'd say that Roman Reigns is a more apt comparison than Bayley. I'd say the most accurate comparison is Apollo Crews. Who, surprise, has the crowd completely dead for him.
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Post by corndog on Sept 1, 2016 10:02:45 GMT -5
Rocky's problem wasn't so much the smiling as it was that he had that air of "LOVE HIM, DAMMIT" that turned people away. I'd say that Roman Reigns is a more apt comparison than Bayley. Exactly, and I was thinking Roman Reigns when I read the OP. He was pushed down everyone's throat and it got regurgitated.
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Sept 1, 2016 10:17:17 GMT -5
Bayley hasn't proved anything yet.
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Post by Lupin the Third on Sept 1, 2016 10:35:36 GMT -5
Rocky's problem wasn't so much the smiling as it was that he had that air of "LOVE HIM, DAMMIT" that turned people away. I'd say that Roman Reigns is a more apt comparison than Bayley. I'd say the most accurate comparison is Apollo Crews. Who, surprise, has the crowd completely dead for him. Apollo Crews need to become the modern day Ahmed Johnson. Just be a badass powerhouse with amazing agility.
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Post by Lupin the Third on Sept 1, 2016 10:37:36 GMT -5
Bayley isn't being pushed down our throats like Rocky Maivia was. And isn't as green as Rocky was.
And she's super cute.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 10:48:02 GMT -5
Bayley needs to go away, so no she hasn't disproved this theory but affirmed it in my humble opinion. Bayley gets a pass from the majority because she has a couple of somethings (barely) and she is as skinny as a toothpick and wears a goofy side-ponytail. (Imagine Nia Jax going around smiling all the time like a goofy loon, she would be hated out of the building.) Let's face it people, that is just a fact of life. She is no Charolette and she is no Dana Brook. Crews or Reigns would be more accurate to compare. So the official post falls flat on it's face because it is logically flawed in the first place. Good day sir!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 11:55:25 GMT -5
Bayley got over. When other people get over, then they can take her spot.
The end.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 11:57:29 GMT -5
It's a mix of things. Rock was overpushed like crazy to be honest, was relying on ring work when he was pretty damn new (and even after he got a few years experience really was never all that great in the ring), looked absolutely stupid, and wasn't getting to show any of his actual charisma at all. The time period didn't help to be sure but I think there are a lot more reasons Rocky Maivia failed than just, "Smiling good guys don't work," or, "The Attitude Era fans hated everything wholesome." Rocky's character was definitely a problem (the main problem), but I think time period had a lot to do with it as well. You had veterans with established legacies and history of being top stars to varying degrees having to tweaks their characters to fit with the times (Hogan, Sting, Taker, Bret, Shawn, etc). The more generic, white meat, formulaic, and/or cartoony something was, the less likely it got/stayed over at that time. Society wanted more edginess in those days, and Rocky was an 80's character being presented in 1997. It was doomed to fail, and the force feeding made it worse. Bayley is right place, right time as far as her character. With kayfabe dead and buried, and crowds now cheering for men/women based on perceived skill rather than character, that also helps.
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Post by mehmonster on Sept 1, 2016 12:01:50 GMT -5
Bayley needs to go away, so no she hasn't disproved this theory but affirmed it in my humble opinion. Bayley gets a pass from the majority because she has a couple of somethings (barely) and she is as skinny as a toothpick and wears a goofy side-ponytail. (Imagine Nia Jax going around smiling all the time like a goofy loon, she would be hated out of the building.) Let's face it people, that is just a fact of life. She is no Charolette and she is no Dana Brook. Crews or Reigns would be more accurate to compare. So the official post falls flat on it's face because it is logically flawed in the first place. Good day sir! Not sure if serious....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 12:11:54 GMT -5
Rocky was pretty much pushed like this:
Here's his dad, Rocky Johnson. Here's his grandfather, "High Chief" Peter Maivia. Here's the kid doing armdrags in the gym. He's handsome. He's the first 3rd generation WWF Superstar.
Over and over.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 12:15:53 GMT -5
Bayley needs to go away, so no she hasn't disproved this theory but affirmed it in my humble opinion. Bayley gets a pass from the majority because she has a couple of somethings (barely) and she is as skinny as a toothpick and wears a goofy side-ponytail. (Imagine Nia Jax going around smiling all the time like a goofy loon, she would be hated out of the building.) Let's face it people, that is just a fact of life. She is no Charolette and she is no Dana Brook. Crews or Reigns would be more accurate to compare. So the official post falls flat on it's face because it is logically flawed in the first place. Good day sir! Not sure if serious.... Half serious. lol jk I like Bayley but the super dork stuff is kind of annoying. As a poster said before, she is going to have to evolve at some point. Charolette, Dana Brook and Nia Jax even are all better than her by a mile.
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Post by mehmonster on Sept 1, 2016 12:26:04 GMT -5
Half serious. lol jk I like Bayley but the super dork stuff is kind of annoying. As a poster said before, she is going to have to evolve at some point. Charolette, Dana Brook and Nia Jax even are all better than her by a mile. Most of the fan base has seen her about 4 times on the main roster. She doesn't need to "evolve" for a while. This is just the drawback of following NXT, character continuity has plus and negative sides. Sasha Banks needs to evolve if anyone. Her character is basically "Boss", saying every fourth word incorrectly and nearly breaking her own neck.
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