CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
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Post by CMWaters on Sept 12, 2016 11:59:02 GMT -5
Miz's name being on the list of WWE Title holders just seems so weird. Yeah. In a way, Miz kind of fits with Stan Stasiak in the "odd to see their name" thing. Though Miz's reign was longer than Stasiak's was. Stasiak was a true transitional champion, only holding it for about a week or so to get the belt from Morales back to Sammartino.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2016 12:04:31 GMT -5
Everyone still likes to forget that at the time he won the belt Miz was red hot, people were dying for him to win it, and it was largely seen as an, "About damn time!" move.
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FAR5222
El Dandy
Counted 237 Bros. SWERVE Got no cookie for it.
Posts: 7,889
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Post by FAR5222 on Sept 12, 2016 12:04:48 GMT -5
I can't wait until John Cena comes back and eventually beats him. I'm gonna laugh so hard when that happens...lol. I'm counting down until that happens. To me...Styles represents everything wrong with WWE at the moment. No character whatsoever. Minimal personality and charisma. I thought he was a bore in TNA and still think he's one in WWE. As for the Japan shit...I can care less. I just want to see Cena beat him for the belt so I can have a good laugh...lol.
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
Bald and busy
Posts: 63,089
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Post by CMWaters on Sept 12, 2016 12:15:42 GMT -5
Everyone still likes to forget that at the time he won the belt Miz was red hot, people were dying for him to win it, and it was largely seen as an, "About damn time!" move. I forget because I wasn't in that group. Maybe I was just a mark for him at the time, but I was fully for Barrett as Nexus leader being champion, so Miz winning it was to me an unnecessary diversion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2016 12:17:43 GMT -5
Everyone still likes to forget that at the time he won the belt Miz was red hot, people were dying for him to win it, and it was largely seen as an, "About damn time!" move. I forget because I wasn't in that group. Maybe I was just a mark for him at the time, but I was fully for Barrett as Nexus leader being champion, so Miz winning it was to me an unnecessary diversion. Honestly I think they'd have been better off having Barrett win it, lead to Cena beating him in the main event of Mania 27, then set up Rock / Cena by having Rock lay Cena out the next night allowing for a Miz cash-in, but still. Granted if that happened there probably wouldn't have been anywhere in there for Punk's rise and who knows where we'd be now then.
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Post by AJ Smudgico on Sept 12, 2016 13:33:48 GMT -5
Can genuinely say it topped off a very high standard ppv. I actually marked out that he won, he's consistently outstanding, and as someone who ain't the biggest fan of Ambrose, I have to give him props for putting in a worldie of a performance.
As it stands though, AJ Styles is WWE Champion and I couldn't be happier!
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
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Post by Bo Rida on Sept 12, 2016 13:44:06 GMT -5
Bit of perspective... Sammartino Backlund Hogan Andre Savage Warrior Undertaker Flair Hart Michaels Austin Rock Looking at that list a lot of guys had endorsement from a previous champion to cement their place. Rollins Foley Triple H Angle Lesnar Cena Orton Batista Punk Bryan Rollins Reigns Ambrose And now... STYLES. The 48th WWE World Champion. Looking at many of the names on that list I think AJ needs a bit of boost to be seen as their equal. An endorsement from HHH would work well but that's been used a lot lately. Maybe have Flair manage him as he no longer accompanies Charlotte. Ric could perhaps talk about how AJ might be the future of the business one day.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
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I've been found out!
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Sept 12, 2016 15:15:44 GMT -5
I know its cool to bash and belittle Punk, but you can really see who was the guy to kick open the door for the "indy" guys... I'd say that's more on Bryan, Punk seemed to be looked up as a prospect by the office for a good long while. On topic, yeah, this is bizarre looking back even from a few years ago. Punk was looked upon as a prospect by the same office that allegedly told Heyman to fire Punk when he was in OVW? That's not to say that Bryan did not play a role because he certainly had to, but the office seriously needed to have their preconceptions busted up over the years. Punk basically forced their hands because he got over no matter how he was booked (most would have floundered with some of his storylines, I would guess). When they finally ran with him, they made plenty of money off of him. Kaval played a minor role as well. They very clearly just wanted him to be a flashy cruiserweight that they could use as an exciting midcard JttS (a la Evan Bourne). They certainly never expected him to click with the voters for NXT to win. Their subsequent booking of him showed that they wanted to stick it to him for derailing their plans by getting over (and legitimately helping get LayCool over along the way rather then it simply being a joke gimmick). I imagine that had Punk's money run at the top come earlier they might have tried to actually capitalize on Kaval winning the fan vote for NXT. Then again, Kaval is pretty well known to be a dick, so maybe they did not feel too broken up at the lost opportunity. Lastly, yes, Bryan's accent to the top had to be the final awakening that they needed, but damned if they did not go kicking and screaming before learning their lesson. Hell, it's almost enough that I might finally be willing to give the company another shot after quitting on them a couple of years ago.
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Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Sept 12, 2016 16:04:19 GMT -5
So happy for him. Been a big fan ever since the TNA days. Best in the world baybayyyyy!
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dav
Hank Scorpio
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Post by dav on Sept 12, 2016 16:59:54 GMT -5
I'd say that's more on Bryan, Punk seemed to be looked up as a prospect by the office for a good long while. On topic, yeah, this is bizarre looking back even from a few years ago. Punk was looked upon as a prospect by the same office that allegedly told Heyman to fire Punk when he was in OVW? That's not to say that Bryan did not play a role because he certainly had to, but the office seriously needed to have their preconceptions busted up over the years. Punk basically forced their hands because he got over no matter how he was booked (most would have floundered with some of his storylines, I would guess). When they finally ran with him, they made plenty of money off of him. Kaval played a minor role as well. They very clearly just wanted him to be a flashy cruiserweight that they could use as an exciting midcard JttS (a la Evan Bourne). They certainly never expected him to click with the voters for NXT to win. Their subsequent booking of him showed that they wanted to stick it to him for derailing their plans by getting over (and legitimately helping get LayCool over along the way rather then it simply being a joke gimmick). I imagine that had Punk's money run at the top come earlier they might have tried to actually capitalize on Kaval winning the fan vote for NXT. Then again, Kaval is pretty well known to be a dick, so maybe they did not feel too broken up at the lost opportunity. Lastly, yes, Bryan's accent to the top had to be the final awakening that they needed, but damned if they did not go kicking and screaming before learning their lesson. Hell, it's almost enough that I might finally be willing to give the company another shot after quitting on them a couple of years ago. Punk was given strong backing throughout though. He was given a highlighted role in the ECW Originals vs. New Breed angle, had a run with the ECW Championship, won Money in the Bank twice, became a Triple Crown Champion and retired Jeff Hardy. They had a place for him alright, it just wasn't the top slot that Punk dreamed for himself.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Sept 12, 2016 17:09:16 GMT -5
Punk was looked upon as a prospect by the same office that allegedly told Heyman to fire Punk when he was in OVW? That's not to say that Bryan did not play a role because he certainly had to, but the office seriously needed to have their preconceptions busted up over the years. Punk basically forced their hands because he got over no matter how he was booked (most would have floundered with some of his storylines, I would guess). When they finally ran with him, they made plenty of money off of him. Kaval played a minor role as well. They very clearly just wanted him to be a flashy cruiserweight that they could use as an exciting midcard JttS (a la Evan Bourne). They certainly never expected him to click with the voters for NXT to win. Their subsequent booking of him showed that they wanted to stick it to him for derailing their plans by getting over (and legitimately helping get LayCool over along the way rather then it simply being a joke gimmick). I imagine that had Punk's money run at the top come earlier they might have tried to actually capitalize on Kaval winning the fan vote for NXT. Then again, Kaval is pretty well known to be a dick, so maybe they did not feel too broken up at the lost opportunity. Lastly, yes, Bryan's accent to the top had to be the final awakening that they needed, but damned if they did not go kicking and screaming before learning their lesson. Hell, it's almost enough that I might finally be willing to give the company another shot after quitting on them a couple of years ago. Punk was given strong backing throughout though. He was given a highlighted role in the ECW Originals vs. New Breed angle, had a run with the ECW Championship, won Money in the Bank twice, became a Triple Crown Champion and retired Jeff Hardy. They had a place for him alright, it just wasn't the top slot that Punk dreamed for himself. After that debut reaction, how could they have not pushed him in ECW, especially since at that time Heyman, his second biggest fan (#1 being Punk) was booking him to start? Again, he got over and stayed over. Granted, they did not drop the ball with him like they have others in the past, but notion that they had high aspirations for him from the start is silly. For that matter, Punk sure hit it out of the park when they let him run with the top of the card. He was not the only one that thought he belonged there. Granted, he needed to lose that title the second time far earlier than he did (or he should have held it a little longer and dropped it at WM), but that is arguing a different point, I think.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Sept 12, 2016 17:14:40 GMT -5
Don't forget Rebecca Knox (retired), Rhyno (in a TNA shit-cycle, also has looked 40 since 2003) and Heath Slater (already well on the way to being the walking punchline he was for 5 years) 2003 is awfully generous to Rhyno. Dude has Arn Anderson's Disease. There was a point (back when he was a jobber pre ECW) that he looked his age (which I think was 19) but after that, he immediately hit 40 and stayed there. I remember when he came back people were amazed by him not quite looking his age, because he had to be about 50 by now, and then there was a general "HE'S ONLY 39?"
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dav
Hank Scorpio
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Post by dav on Sept 12, 2016 17:23:42 GMT -5
Punk was given strong backing throughout though. He was given a highlighted role in the ECW Originals vs. New Breed angle, had a run with the ECW Championship, won Money in the Bank twice, became a Triple Crown Champion and retired Jeff Hardy. They had a place for him alright, it just wasn't the top slot that Punk dreamed for himself. After that debut reaction, how could they have not pushed him in ECW, especially since at that time Heyman, his second biggest fan (#1 being Punk) was booking him to start? Again, he got over and stayed over. Granted, they did not drop the ball with him like they have others in the past, but notion that they had high aspirations for him from the start is silly. For that matter, Punk sure hit it out of the park when they let him run with the top of the card. He was not the only one that thought he belonged there. Granted, he needed to lose that title the second time far earlier than he did (or he should have held it a little longer and dropped it at WM), but that is arguing a different point, I think. This is WWE remember, if they didn't want to push Punk, they wouldn't. A lot of his accomplishments came when Heyman had left the company. They had an idea for Punk alright, not the Cena slot because that was no one's until recently with Reigns.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Sept 12, 2016 17:32:16 GMT -5
2003 is awfully generous to Rhyno. Dude has Arn Anderson's Disease. There was a point (back when he was a jobber pre ECW) that he looked his age (which I think was 19) but after that, he immediately hit 40 and stayed there. I remember when he came back people were amazed by him not quite looking his age, because he had to be about 50 by now, and then there was a general "HE'S ONLY 39?" I feel many guys from ECW had that issue. I'm amazed that Bubba Ray Dudley is 45. The only time he did not look older than he actually was was during his Bully Ray days.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,366
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Sept 12, 2016 17:37:46 GMT -5
After that debut reaction, how could they have not pushed him in ECW, especially since at that time Heyman, his second biggest fan (#1 being Punk) was booking him to start? Again, he got over and stayed over. Granted, they did not drop the ball with him like they have others in the past, but notion that they had high aspirations for him from the start is silly. For that matter, Punk sure hit it out of the park when they let him run with the top of the card. He was not the only one that thought he belonged there. Granted, he needed to lose that title the second time far earlier than he did (or he should have held it a little longer and dropped it at WM), but that is arguing a different point, I think. This is WWE remember, if they didn't want to push Punk, they wouldn't. A lot of his accomplishments came when Heyman had left the company. They had an idea for Punk alright, not the Cena slot because that was no one's until recently with Reigns. I don't dispute this. My point was that Heyman gave him a shot that I doubt anyone in the office was excited about, he did too well with that shot for them to ignore, and he kept making the most out of whatever shots they gave him until he earned that top spot. Now, does that actually have any real bearing on AJ's success? I don't know. If it does, it is only that they let go of preconceived notions and considered the possibility that anyone could succeed. It is still up to any particular worker to actually succeed (well, other than Del Rio. Why did they keep going to that boring well?)
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dav
Hank Scorpio
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Post by dav on Sept 12, 2016 17:53:12 GMT -5
This is WWE remember, if they didn't want to push Punk, they wouldn't. A lot of his accomplishments came when Heyman had left the company. They had an idea for Punk alright, not the Cena slot because that was no one's until recently with Reigns. I don't dispute this. My point was that Heyman gave him a shot that I doubt anyone in the office was excited about, he did too well with that shot for them to ignore, and he kept making the most out of whatever shots they gave him until he earned that top spot. Now, does that actually have any real bearing on AJ's success? I don't know. If it does, it is only that they let go of preconceived notions and considered the possibility that anyone could succeed. It is still up to any particular worker to actually succeed (well, other than Del Rio. Why did they keep going to that boring well?) I will say that Punk did get chances at least, so someone other than Heyman had an eye on him. Him being the first to lose in Elimination Chamber didn't help, at least it was better than what happened to Sabu. Also, do we know who books Smackdown? Cornette said that Shane has his finger on the pulse more when it comes to modern pop culture so that might play into it.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,366
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Sept 12, 2016 18:07:28 GMT -5
I don't dispute this. My point was that Heyman gave him a shot that I doubt anyone in the office was excited about, he did too well with that shot for them to ignore, and he kept making the most out of whatever shots they gave him until he earned that top spot. Now, does that actually have any real bearing on AJ's success? I don't know. If it does, it is only that they let go of preconceived notions and considered the possibility that anyone could succeed. It is still up to any particular worker to actually succeed (well, other than Del Rio. Why did they keep going to that boring well?) I will say that Punk did get chances at least, so someone other than Heyman had an eye on him. Him being the first to lose in Elimination Chamber didn't help, at least it was better than what happened to Sabu. Also, do we know who books Smackdown? Cornette said that Shane has his finger on the pulse more when it comes to modern pop culture so that might play into it. That Elimination Chamber was terrible. I get that they wanted to make Lashley out like a monster, but that was done the wrong way. If anything, I would have had all of the faces not named Lashley get a big moment either knocking Show out on his feet (for Sabu) or eliminating heels (for the rest). Once it was down to Show and the faces, then it should be every man for themselves with Show picking off faces opportunistically. That way the ending could still be Show vs Lashley but you would not have pissed off the ECW faithful by summarily dismissing their favorites in order to make Lashley look like a demigod. Simply pinning Show should have been good enough to get him over without derailing everyone else.
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gbo86
Mephisto
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Post by gbo86 on Sept 13, 2016 9:13:51 GMT -5
Sorry I'm late to the party, but I just got a chance to watch Backlash last night and had avoided the spoilers. Wow. One of my closest friends, who was a pro wrestling fanatic, passed away about 2 and a half years ago from complications during surgery. I still remember with crystal clarity him talking to me more than a decade ago about what an amazing wrestler AJ Styles was and how much he deserved to be in the WWE.
If my friend knew that Undertaker was going to lose the streak and AJ Styles was going to become the top guy in WWE, he'd have lost his mind. Thinking about him a lot today.
I'm glad wrestling can still be this much fun to watch. It's just another reminder that when the product is on point, it's up there with the best that TV has to offer.
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Post by benstudd on Sept 15, 2016 12:52:01 GMT -5
TNA's streak of L's continues in the biggest way imaginable as the man they thought wasn't a big star, has now become the champion in the biggest company in the world. He is truly the face that runs the place. WWE gets TNA's work horses, TNA is getting WWE's more charismatic guys. The industry is weird right now. Maybe it's just me but I think TNA would be better off with AJ, Roode, Aries and Joe while WWE would be better off with EC3, Galloway, Sandow and Rhodes(in top spots). Then you trade KO for Broken Matt. TNA needs wrestlers, WWE needs entertainers. Still, I'm happy for AJ Styles, he deserves it even though I would have booked him differently.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 15, 2016 13:15:48 GMT -5
I wouldn't go as far to call it "surreal" for me, WWE is stubborn about certain superstars but they're nowhere as bad as they were about capitalizing on hot performers.
But I think back to some of AJ's angles during his TNA run, and among other things like Claire Lynch, there was also his role in the Angle Alliance. He had - and keep in mind, he was a former world champ at this point- zero self confidence, just a total clown. I honestly think he was goofier than Santino.
He couldn't decide if he was loyal to Angle or Christian, to the point where he hid in his room at his parents' house, and once under a table because he simply could not bring himself to face Christian. He was looking to the likes of Jeremy Borash and Eric Young for advice. On top of that, in angles following that he was still treated like a young upstart who needed to break through, even when he was TNA "world" champion.
Compare that to debuting at the Royal Rumble, performing at Wrestlemania, main eventing against Reigns following that and giving him a run for his money, beating John Cena twice (the most recent win clean as a sheet), and as of now holding arguably the most prestigious world title in the business.
This is arguably the strongest AJ's ever looked anywhere. WWE would be wise to keep protecting him, but it's hard for me to see how much worse they could treat him than how Dixie did.
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