ilggant
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Run...
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Post by ilggant on Sept 13, 2016 7:32:34 GMT -5
His character dictates that he thinks he's better than everyone. To that effect, he talks down everyone, and it works, at least for me. He's a heel, he's a jerk, so what is he expected to do, praise his opponent? Not every heel has to be a coward. Owens isn't, not because he's a courageous fella (hi Sheamus), but because he genuinely thinks everyone is beneath him, so he has nothing to fear.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Sept 13, 2016 7:33:03 GMT -5
I'm not sure I agree.
Owens has shown himself to be smug, dishonest, disingenuous. The issue isn't so much him tearing people down as it is how he does it.
Heels, broadly speaking, are not supposed to be right.
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Sept 13, 2016 8:18:24 GMT -5
I always dread reading forums because as soon as a guy wins the title, the people who support(ed) him start shitting on him.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 13, 2016 8:35:45 GMT -5
Owens is good at being disingenuous, but I think he can take it a lot further. He doesn't need to be a chickenshit or a bumbling fool, but I want him to exaggerate and push the obnoxiousness more.
He should look at how Ric Flair feuded with Randy Savage, or Jerry Lawler against Bret Hart, or how ridiculous Daniels and Kazarian were as Bad Influence. Make up stupid claims about the faces that absolutely no one would logically buy into, do and say more things that will make most people think "are you kidding me, Kevin?"
Fans shouldn't leave thinking "Owens is so good, he rightfully deserves his success far more than Reigns does". They should think "Owens is a dangerous superstar, but man, the stuff he said about Roman made no sense."
He should go on about how much better he is than everyone in the Anoa'i bloodline. Cartoonish bragging about all the bizarre ways he would beat Snuka, Rock, the Wild Samoans, etc.
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Bang Bang Bart
Ozymandius
The King of North America
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Sept 13, 2016 8:36:08 GMT -5
It's obviously not as bad as Stephanie McMahon, but it is pretty much like Triple H where he points out everyone's flaws as though he is the only one smart enough to realize them and has the balls to say them. It's fine in small doses, but he did it to Roman ("doesn't belong in the ring with me") and Rollins (pointing out his loses) tonight and I'm not sure what it accomplishes other than making them look bad. It isn't putting any heel heat on Owens and just serves to make RAW's top babyfaces look like losers. I'm a big Owens fan, but there's precedent here too. He basically buried babyface champion Davey Richards in ROH by pointing out comments he made about MMA and wrestling. And I agreed with his basic point, but it didn't really benefit ROH as a company to get the fans to agree with the heel that their babyface champion was a "Jiu-Jitsu jackoff." Just tone it down a tad, big man. at least, unlike Stephanie, there's a high chance a face will shut Owens up by kicking his ass.
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Fauxnaki
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Post by Fauxnaki on Sept 13, 2016 8:53:05 GMT -5
He does seem to really put down other guys on the mic, which would be fine if he was a babyface right now which I think he should be. All he needed to do was turn of hunter after he one the title and his natural wit and relatablity would of made him a great babyface champion
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Post by willywonka666 on Sept 13, 2016 8:59:16 GMT -5
I have never liked him because he seems miserable-and this is what miserable people do
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kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Sept 13, 2016 9:03:09 GMT -5
Kevin Owens is a condenscending dick consistently, no matter what part of the card he's on.
Why would he be different as champ?
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Lupin the Third
Patti Mayonnaise
I'm sorry.....I love you. *boot to the head*--3rd most culpable in the jixing of NXT, D'oh!
Join the Dark Order....
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Post by Lupin the Third on Sept 13, 2016 9:42:30 GMT -5
Kevin also breaths air, so obviously he's no good. Who does he think he is? He's the longest reigning WWE UNIVERSAL CHAMPION, BABAAAAAY!!!!
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Black Lives Matter
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Sept 13, 2016 10:06:24 GMT -5
Kevin also breaths air, so obviously he's no good. Who does he think he is? He's the longest reigning WWE UNIVERSAL CHAMPION, BABAAAAAY!!!! How dare he have a Championship, everyone should turn on him and stop being his fans. That's how these threads work, right?
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Lupin the Third
Patti Mayonnaise
I'm sorry.....I love you. *boot to the head*--3rd most culpable in the jixing of NXT, D'oh!
Join the Dark Order....
Posts: 36,332
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Post by Lupin the Third on Sept 13, 2016 10:18:02 GMT -5
He's the longest reigning WWE UNIVERSAL CHAMPION, BABAAAAAY!!!! How dare he have a Championship, everyone should turn on him and stop being his fans. That's how these threads work, right? I think so. I try not to follow that too much, otherwise I become grumpy. And not like Grumpy Bear.
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Post by JTG Fan on Sept 13, 2016 10:30:24 GMT -5
Jeez, this place is filled with people complaining about stuff. I make one thread about what I see as a flaw in the performance of a guy who I like and I'm accused of turning on him because he became champion.
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Post by Raskovnik on Sept 13, 2016 10:41:49 GMT -5
Jeez, this place is filled with people complaining about stuff. I make one thread about what I see as a flaw in the performance of a guy who I like and I'm accused of turning on him because he became champion. Not to mention those smarmy "Yeah, how dare X!" shitposts that are written literally exactly the same time, every time, in some misguided attempt to stem the tide and shut down any contrary opinions no matter how they're put. One of my biggest pet peeves. They're so f***ing corny. EDIT: I want everyone to man up and say what they mean and mean what they say. It's that simple. Just shoot straight. Don't hide behind irony and sarcasm. If you disagree, handle it like an adult. Have an actual conversation or debate. If you literally cannot handle a different opinion without responding with something that amounts to little more than a shitpost that contributes absolutely nothing to the topic other than shitting on it...just don't do it. Move on. I have become increasingly irritated by this.
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Post by eJm on Sept 13, 2016 10:48:02 GMT -5
I have never liked him because he seems miserable-and this is what miserable people do Ironically, I met him before he joined the WWE when he was in the UK and he was one of the happiest wrestlers in the promotion, giving everyone hugs and such.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2016 10:58:01 GMT -5
He's the longest reigning WWE UNIVERSAL CHAMPION, BABAAAAAY!!!! How dare he have a Championship, everyone should turn on him and stop being his fans. That's how these threads work, right? Remember guys, the IWC totally isn't a hivemind. Well, until you dare to go against the popular opinion then you'll get condescending responses like this.
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Post by corndog on Sept 13, 2016 11:09:51 GMT -5
So it's Owen's fault that the other people are idiots and do dumb shit or have points against them he can point out? I mean he's a heel, why wouldn't he exploit things that have happened to them or things they have done? This seems like a stretch to me. A heel is supposed to get the babyface over, not remind everyone about everything they shouldn't like about the babyface. The Jericho-Zayn segment was a textbook example of how a heel/face promo dynamic should work. Owens/Rollins did absolutely nothing whatsoever for Rollins. Exactly, and that Jericho/Zayn segment was a perfect example. At the end of it, people were chanting "Jericho sucks" and booing him, while cheering Sami Zayn. As I said, heels are supposed to lie or greatly exaggerate the truth, both of which Jericho did and Zayn ended up being the one to own him with the truth. If heels just kept owning faces with the absolute truth, then most would just say, he's right, why should I even bother supporting this guy?
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MrElijah
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Post by MrElijah on Sept 13, 2016 11:23:12 GMT -5
He does seem to really put down other guys on the mic, which would be fine if he was a babyface right now which I think he should be. All he needed to do was turn of hunter after he one the title and his natural wit and relatablity would of made him a great babyface champion Honesty I want him to betray HHH. And STILL be a heel. Make him an egotistically, petty, ungrateful bastard.
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Fauxnaki
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Post by Fauxnaki on Sept 13, 2016 11:24:34 GMT -5
He does seem to really put down other guys on the mic, which would be fine if he was a babyface right now which I think he should be. All he needed to do was turn of hunter after he one the title and his natural wit and relatablity would of made him a great babyface champion Honesty I want him to betray HHH. And STILL be a heel. Make him an egotistically, petty, ungrateful bastard. I'm happy with that if it means less HHH
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
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Post by mizerable on Sept 13, 2016 11:26:03 GMT -5
Ah, the truthful heel.
Unless he ends up straight up losing, then no one benefits from it. The face is proven to be a dunder, and the heel is no better off for beating the dunder.
This is why so many people loathed the reign of terror. The matches sucked, but it was an era where almost no one got over.
If they're doing this to Kevin Owens, then everyone's stock is at risk.
A heel should be someone who believes their own hype, but doesn't outright dismiss someone else's. They can claim that said face doesn't deserve a shot, but they still shouldn't look to their record to prove their point. Disillusioned, arrogant, fearful, glutenous etc are all great heel traits. Being truthful reminds the audience of all the reasons they shouldn't watch their feud.
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Post by sunnytaker on Sept 13, 2016 11:31:55 GMT -5
So it's Owen's fault that the other people are idiots and do dumb shit or have points against them he can point out? I mean he's a heel, why wouldn't he exploit things that have happened to them or things they have done? This seems like a stretch to me. In the long run it's just going to hurt Owens. The best quote I've ever read about mic work, and I can't recall who said it, is that if you tear someone down and then wrestle them: If you win then what's the big deal, you beat a nobody who sucked anyway. If you lose then you just lost to that guy who sucked so you must suck more. Basically you should build up your opponent as the best thing since sliced bread so that if you lose at least he's over and if you win then you just beat this guy who was incredible. it was in Jericho's book- in his early days he was going to wrestle some territory vet there and made comments about how the guy is an old, washed up has-been etc. in an interview then when he got to the back the guy (who was booked to win) pretty much said exactly that to him.
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