Does KO have a "tearing everyone down" problem?

[JTG Fan]

It's obviously not as bad as Stephanie McMahon, but it is pretty much like Triple H where he points out everyone's flaws as though he is the only one smart enough to realize them and has the balls to say them. It's fine in small doses, but he did it to Roman ("doesn't belong in the ring with me") and Rollins (pointing out his loses) tonight and I'm not sure what it accomplishes other than making them look bad. It isn't putting any heel heat on Owens and just serves to make RAW's top babyfaces look like losers.

I'm a big Owens fan, but there's precedent here too. He basically buried babyface champion Davey Richards in ROH by pointing out comments he made about MMA and wrestling. And I agreed with his basic point, but it didn't really benefit ROH as a company to get the fans to agree with the heel that their babyface champion was a "Jiu-Jitsu jackoff."

Just tone it down a tad, big man.

[corndog]

I don't mind the Roman Reigns stuff, not because I hate Roman Reigns, but because Reigns always looks strong in the ring against him and in kayfabe doesn't really hold true. But when he tore down Rollins, I thought damn he really owned him there. Usually heels lie and/or exaggerate facts, but everything he said was dead on.

[CATCH_US IS the Conversation]

It's not like he's lying.

[Optimax]

And he will out others over in a match too, so no issues

[radiantsilvergun]

Hahah yeah. He used to shit on Sami Callihan so much on PWG commentary until they had a match then he stopped doing it

[Tea & Crumpets]

This is reason #1 why I don't think Kevin Owens is all that. He's got the worst points of The Rock's promo style without the positives, I honestly think he's dreadful on the mic because while he can be entertaining and very funny, it's in service of burying his opponents and making them look bad, which is pretty much the opposite purpose of a promo.

Reason #2 is the fact he doesn't sell much and his offense is VERY much a mishmash of "things that look cool" without much tying them together.

Both can be fixed dead easily and #2 in particular is a common WWE trend lately, so it's not like I'm bashing the dude or want him to fail far from it. I've just never been as onboard his wagon as everyone else seems to be, because of these things.

[Deleted]

Kevin also loses matches

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

So it's Owen's fault that the other people are idiots and do dumb shit or have points against them he can point out?

I mean he's a heel, why wouldn't he exploit things that have happened to them or things they have done? This seems like a stretch to me.

[TWERKIN' MAGGLE]

Kevin also breaths air, so obviously he's no good. Who does he think he is?

[Boozeman]

Sept 13, 2016 1:45:35 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

So it's Owen's fault that the other people are idiots and do dumb shit or have points against them he can point out?

I mean he's a heel, why wouldn't he exploit things that have happened to them or things they have done? This seems like a stretch to me.

A heel is supposed to get the babyface over, not remind everyone about everything they shouldn't like about the babyface.

The Jericho-Zayn segment was a textbook example of how a heel/face promo dynamic should work. Owens/Rollins did absolutely nothing whatsoever for Rollins.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Sept 13, 2016 1:56:33 GMT -5 Boozeman said:

Sept 13, 2016 1:45:35 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

So it's Owen's fault that the other people are idiots and do dumb shit or have points against them he can point out?

I mean he's a heel, why wouldn't he exploit things that have happened to them or things they have done? This seems like a stretch to me.

A heel is supposed to get the babyface over, not remind everyone about everything they shouldn't like about the babyface.

The Jericho-Zayn segment was a textbook example of how a heel/face promo dynamic should work. Owens/Rollins did absolutely nothing whatsoever for Rollins.

At the same time is Rollins really a face? He doesn't really come off like one, he's more an Antihero or a Tweener right now, he wants to kick HHH's ass but he also will do whatever he wants, as shown tonight, he basically screamed that in Mick's face.

I don't think tearing down Rollins is an issue, or Reigns either considering the crowd ain't really behind him. Plus if don't right beating Owens is all the sweeter as he proves him wrong.

[Mozenrath]

I hated the Roman one because that's such a Russo-tastic line to take, but I wasn't upset about the Rollins stuff, because that is something the narrative plays into.

I want the mic to turn off the second people pull the "you can't wrestle" shit with Cena or Roman and for someone to get into their ear "you're supposed to at least PRETEND this shit's real and wins and losses matter, numbnuts, now continue". Otherwise, it gets way too whichever Ocean's movie it was where Julie Roberts' character pretends to be Julia Roberts. It was stupid when AJ did it early in his Cena feud, and that stuff's lame now.

It's lazy pandering to endear the heel to people who already like them.

I like Kevin, but it's a bad tact to take with your promo. The Rollins one is fine because it's actually based on kayfabe events.

[Clash, Never a Meter Maid]

Yeah, this is always something that's bugged me about Owens's mic work against faces. He tries way too hard to be the hippest guy in the ring, and that's a bad tactic to take. Your job is to get yourself AND the babyface over. His character needs to be more foolish, show more weakness in his arguments. Let the babyface make you out to be more of a fool.

That's why I've been loving Styles's character as of late. He's booked as a credible superstar who can beat just about any top guy in a variety of ways, but he comes off as an insecure, whiny jerk.

AJ is always going to have a segment of fans cheering for him because's he's clearly taleted in and out of kayfabe. Yet at the same time he's not a "cool heel" in any way, shape or form. He's a brat who won't shut up about beating John Cena, abuses tech guys and smashes people's phones, and he gets rightfully booed for it. I thought him and Cena's "I'm here out of love" segment was one of both guys' best promos period, because of how well AJ set himself up as a total buffoon, and then John deflated his ego with logical arguments. That's what more heels need to do nowadays.

I don't get that with Owens. He can be funny and he's got charisma, but stop trying to push the "this guy isn't any good" shit. It doesn't matter what kind of moveset or skill set Roman has in real life, in the WWE narrative he's a beast. Nor does it matter if fans aren't behind Roman, if WWE wants you to get booed against him, then dammit that's your job whether you like it or not. Just say you're going to beat him up and move on.

["Gentleman" AJ Powell]

I'd say it's not as glaring because he does get some comeuppance, rather frequently in fact.

[Allie Kitsune]

Sept 13, 2016 4:29:40 GMT -5 "Gentleman" AJ Powell said:

I'd say it's not as glaring because he does get some comeuppance, rather frequently in fact.

I don't know, I think when one's promo style is based upon destroying another person's persona/gimmick, once he's planted that seed in the crowd's mind, it doesn't really matter if he loses the match afterward. It gets a little too close to that "Everyone else is fake and I'm the only real person here" stuff we got from Punk and sometimes get from Heyman/Brock.

[celtics543]

Sept 13, 2016 1:45:35 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

So it's Owen's fault that the other people are idiots and do dumb shit or have points against them he can point out?

I mean he's a heel, why wouldn't he exploit things that have happened to them or things they have done? This seems like a stretch to me.

In the long run it's just going to hurt Owens. The best quote I've ever read about mic work, and I can't recall who said it, is that if you tear someone down and then wrestle them: If you win then what's the big deal, you beat a nobody who sucked anyway. If you lose then you just lost to that guy who sucked so you must suck more.

Basically you should build up your opponent as the best thing since sliced bread so that if you lose at least he's over and if you win then you just beat this guy who was incredible.

[lockedontarget]

Owens gets his comeuppance both in and out of the ring all the time. There have been plenty of past segments where he's been flustered and embarrassed by various other characters. He's a bully who likes to tear people down but is actually pretty insecure himself, and that is a character that is consistently portrayed.

[FinalGwen]

I'm kind of surprised, because when he did his 'take over commentary' thing not long ago, he did a great job putting everyone in the IC division over while still playing his character.

[Mozenrath]

To elaborate a little on my previous point, and it goes for other guys, not just Kevin in this instance, who normally I think does a great job balancing being a cutting heel and a believable dick that often even other heels detest.

We know the show is fake, obviously, the vast majority of fans do. We also know something like House is fake.

If they had Omar Epps began an episode of House saying that he felt, for the purposes of this example, that Hugh Laurie was overpayed or underqualified for his part, and that the show should follow him, and that he's English, of all things!!, would that translate into an exciting shakeup for the show that fans loved?

Probably not, at least once shock value wore off. In addition to completely shattering the suspension of disbelief (Which House would do in spades later, anyway), it'd be gimmicky, and it wouldn't result in anything, because the show would remain House and the main character would continue to be Hugh Laurie, just as Roman, Cena, or whatever whipping boy for smarks would continue to be a featured part of the program. It's a whole lot of tease with zero payoff, and diminishing returns to boot.

[trollrogue]

Honestly I think the criticism is vastly overexaggerated. Owens is the UV Champ, he is supposed to put himself on a pedestal above everyone else and knock them down. Especially Rollins, who is the guy who kept screaming to Owens to SHUT UP last RAW and completely no sold his Championship win (granted ot was due to Seth getting screwed).

The more Kevin puts Rollins down as a unworthy paper champ who needed the Authority, the more their rivalry becomes meaningful. Hard thing to do with two great heels