My Main Problems with Star Wars: The Force Awakens.

[Sephiroth]

Dec 4, 2016 19:16:20 GMT -5 @knapp said:

Dec 4, 2016 14:58:18 GMT -5 Sephiroth said:

One of my first thoughts when I saw it was "The Death Star didn't work twice, what was makingbit bigger supposed to accomplish?"

More fear and more terror.

The First Order are Imperial fanatics. Like Neo-Nazis, they lack that pre-established backbone of government & armed forces (which the original Nazis took advantage of in Germany) to create their empire. It was created out of the ashes of the Empire, formed out of the Republic, and by the worst of the worst of the Empire.

The Empire fed on the loyalty of those in the military and governments to advance their own beliefs and poison people into thinking it was good. The First Order are the descendants of those poisoned minds, who see things much differently.

No one in the First Order cared about the logistics of yet another Death Star, I'll bet, and if/how it could be destroyed. They just saw a way to make a bigger Death Star so it would horrify more people and kill more of them.

And here I thought they were just a bunch of dumb asses who never learn

[Deleted]

Another thing I want to say is my biggest gripe with The Force Awakens is it felt like a soft remake of Episode 4 and a reunion special. Luke Skywalker is a big Marty Stu as was Anakin Skywalker.

Now clearly the writers who have already decided they were going to play it safe but softly remaking almost every aspect of Episode 4 decided they should remake Ren as Luke Skywalker 2.0. Now as a result of bad writing they somehow even wrote a bigger Stu/Sue character that it doesnt even matter if a male, female, or a dog was casted. Ren was doomed to be a Stu/Sue the moment the writers were hired and decided to go for the soft nostalgia membeberries reboot.

[xCompackx]

Honestly, considering the prequels were the last thing on peoples' mind when it comes to Star Wars movies, not taking massive risks with an entirely new sequel was probably a good idea. I mean, it's not like they did a shot-for-shot remake or anything.

[MC Blowfish]

1) The Starkiller Base in general.  I'm guessing here, but the Republic fleet could probably destroy the First Order's or at least had a significant advantage.  The attack destroys the capital and the fleet.  The disadvantage wasn't the same.  You had exhaust port that was clearly out in the open.  The Resistance had to take out the oscillator, but the shield had to be taken down before the oscillator was destroyed.

2) Poe Daemon crashes on Jakku with Finn and believed to die only to reappear later with the rebels to save the day. First, what happened with his mission, second how did he get back To the rebel base and third, just like Finn, he has no Injuries, What?
- Poe was originally supposed to die on Jakku.  I really don't have an answer for this one.


3) These next ones are my main gripe: Rey in genera and I have so much to say about her. This is what ruined it for me. She is exactly a female Luke Skywalker but in a too perfect way. First of all, she knows more about the millennium falcon than Han Solo. Really? Han Solo put his heart and soul into it so only him should know more about it. Not only that, despite never flown a ship before she somehow managed to outrun Tie Fighters with the Millennium Falcon? I am not buying this at all. At least Luke was a well know pilot so if something like this happened to him, it would have made sense. But Rey, I don’t buy this at all.
- Rey is strong with the force.  That's not exactly unheard of in the Star Wars universe.  She's already a good pilot when she leaves Jakku.  She NEVER said that she had never flown a ship.  She said that she was a pilot.  Could that mean just those land speeders?  Possible?  Remember Luke wasn't exactly an ace pilot and yet he was flying with the rebels against the Death Star.  


My next problem is that how she managed to use the force so easily. To me, this was a very big joke. Remember in a New Nope, Obi-Wan was training Luke about becoming a Jedi: how to use the force and how to use a light saber. Even when Luke used the force to destroy the Death Star, Obi wan was guiding him in spirit since he knew he did not master it fully. Rey, however, managed to use mind control and use the light saber with no training what so ever? Come on. I will get back to the light saber part in a moment.
- She used a Jedi Mind Trick against a Stormtrooper.  Not exactly a master Jedi skill.  


4) Rylo Ren went from being strong to a wuss. I don’t know if there is an opposite of character development, but Kylo Ren fits this perfectly. He managed to use the force to stop a powerful laser shot mid air. That’s was neat and a great way to introduced him. Then he throws teenage tantrums when thing don’t go his way. He then gets shot by Chewbacca easily. (Ok he was not paying attention) and this brings my biggest gripe.
- Kylo was struggling with the call to the light side.  He didn't want to kill his father, but believed that he had to.  Much like his grandfather, he was struggling with the dark side and the light side.  He was distracted and took a direct hit by a bowcaster.  The same weapon that blew Stormtroopers off of their feet.  That was a powerful weapon.  He was bleeding and seriously hurt when he was facing Rey and Finn.  He wasn't 100%.  I'm assuming we'll find out more about his fall and training in the next couple of films.  My belief is that his Jedi training was cut short by Snook and thus told to feed into his anger (Dark side trait) and when he does, he snaps.


5) The Kylo Ren and Rey saber fight. Now remember when I mentioned that I will get back to the Rey and Light saber part. Well as you guess, this is where it falls. So Kylo Ren, who was trained by Luke Skywalker and the Evil Emperor and had so many years of experience get defeated by a rookie who never had any training? At least in episode 4 Luke and Vader never clashed for a saber fight and even when they did in Episode 5, Vader won the fight since Luke’s training was incomplete and he was not ready for it. But Rey beats Kylo Ren in her first fight? Does she really need training in the force if she managed to defeat an experienced Jedi now? I feel that there was no character development in her at all. She did everything in this episode.
- See answer above.  Bleeding, mentally damaged Kylo Ren who wasn't at 100%.  

[xCompackx]

Thing too about the Starkiller Base's weakness is, the First Order had no reason to assume someone could've destroyed the oscillator, even if they got past the shield. It took (if I recall) an internal explosion to allow Poe to enter and destroy it from within. They were pretty well covered as compared to the original Death Star. Plus, keep in mind that even the Death Star II fixed the exhaust port and it took an improbable attack on the shield generator to expose it.

[stealthamo]

Haven't seen The Force Awakens since it was in theaters. I liked it, but I'm sure some of the shine would come off if I were to see it again considering the massive excitement when the film came out. Given all the hype for the film, I think they went the best route that they could with the story, both with introducing new characters and bringing back the old ones. I can completely get people having problems with some of the new characters (Rey in particular being a bit Mary Sue-ish), but I figure they'll have the next movie(s) to expand upon the characters introduced in TFA. Even if the story is a near exact copy of A New Hope.

Not really seeing the whole gender/feminism thing either, mainly because we don't know Rey's full story yet. I'd say there was more of a feminist agenda with the new Ghostbusters movie (which I thought was decent, but everything about that movie is overblown at this point) than this.

[Deleted]

As mentioned, Rey is as much a Mary Sue(a term I hate) as Luke and Anakin, so I didn't have much issue with her except for the film seemingly fast forwarding all her development. But the one scene where the film's intent of giving her the rub annoyed me is when Leia hugs her at the end. Like, really? You have to make THAT moment about Rey instead of Leia and Chewbacca?! I was ready for it, Leia is going to embrace Chewy, they'll both mourn Han, and the waterworks would start flowing... But no, Leia hugs Rey because f*** it, why not?

[A Platypus Rave]

My main problem is they had no long discussions about trade negotiations! GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT! ... I am not George Lucas... shutup.

[Deleted]

I think my problem with Starkiller is it just kinda shows up mid movie, none of heroes really show much concern that it exists or how much destruction it caused. Then it's destroyed like thirty minutes later, they really didn't have a plan and figured out how to destroy it on a hunch.

Unlike the Death Star where destroying it was the plot of the entire first movie, third movie, made sure it showed up in the prequel films, and coming to theatres in two weeks is a whole movie on how the rebels got the plans. I don't watch the show but I'm sure Rebels touched on it a bit to.

So your telling me they built Starkiller Base and the good guys had no clue the entire time?

[schma]

Dec 4, 2016 14:13:49 GMT -5 Magician under the moonlight said:

I know I will be hated for this but I just wanted to get it out.

So I finally decided to watch The Force awakens and I really did not like it. The effects were good and the action ok, but there were so many things that disappointed me. Most of it are already discussed to death, like it’s a rehash of episode 4, Han Solo getting killed and Mark Hamill only appearing in the end, so I will concentrate on what really grinded my gear.

1) The Starkiller Base in general. Ok! After the failure of the Deathstar, they somehow managed to create a base 10 times bigger and need to absorb energy from the stars to destroy another galaxy? How the hell did they managed that. And not only this, they managed to give it a very similar weakness to the death star, showing that they never learned.

2) Poe Daemon crashes on Jakku with Finn and believed to die only to reappear later with the rebels to save the day. First, what happened with his mission, second how did he get back To the rebel base and third, just like Finn, he has no Injuries, What?

3) These next ones are my main gripe: Rey in genera and I have so much to say about her. This is what ruined it for me. She is exactly a female Luke Skywalker but in a too perfect way. First of all, she knows more about the millennium falcon than Han Solo. Really? Han Solo put his heart and soul into it so only him should know more about it. Not only that, despite never flown a ship before she somehow managed to outrun Tie Fighters with the Millennium Falcon? I am not buying this at all. At least Luke was a well know pilot so if something like this happened to him, it would have made sense. But Rey, I don’t buy this at all.

My next problem is that how she managed to use the force so easily. To me, this was a very big joke. Remember in a New Nope, Obi-Wan was training Luke about becoming a Jedi: how to use the force and how to use a light saber. Even when Luke used the force to destroy the Death Star, Obi wan was guiding him in spirit since he knew he did not master it fully. Rey, however, managed to use mind control and use the light saber with no training what so ever? Come on. I will get back to the light saber part in a moment.

4) Rylo Ren went from being strong to a wuss. I don’t know if there is an opposite of character development, but Kylo Ren fits this perfectly. He managed to use the force to stop a powerful laser shot mid air. That’s was neat and a great way to introduced him. Then he throws teenage tantrums when thing don’t go his way. He then gets shot by Chewbacca easily. (Ok he was not paying attention) and this brings my biggest gripe.

5) The Kylo Ren and Rey saber fight. Now remember when I mentioned that I will get back to the Rey and Light saber part. Well as you guess, this is where it falls. So Kylo Ren, who was trained by Luke Skywalker and the Evil Emperor and had so many years of experience get defeated by a rookie who never had any training? At least in episode 4 Luke and Vader never clashed for a saber fight and even when they did in Episode 5, Vader won the fight since Luke’s training was incomplete and he was not ready for it. But Rey beats Kylo Ren in her first fight? Does she really need training in the force if she managed to defeat an experienced Jedi now? I feel that there was no character development in her at all. She did everything in this episode.

Honestly, what is up with movies and replacing male leads with woman lately? Is the Feminist movement really this strong? They made the women look like they have no flaws at all and men look like they are inferior. I felt the same way when I saw the Ghostbusters movie where the villain and the male secretary were just idiots. In Star Wars, They made Rey the strong, smart independent woman who excels faster than any male in the field. She learned how to be a Jedi with no training, she knows more than freakin Han Solo about the Millennium Falcon and knows how to pilot it on her first try, hell when Finn tries to save her many times, she kept screaming “Let go of my hand”. I don’t want to say this is a feminist ploy, but it does feel like it. Then again, knowing Disney, they have an obsession with strong female characters.

The thing about the Force Awakens is that it was basically a remake of A New Hope. I think there's a good reason for that. The prequel trilogy is for the most part looked down on. There were a couple good bits but by and large they were flops for a variety of reasons. To me The Force Awakens was Disney's way of saying "we understand. We're going back to the heart of what made the original Star Wars beloved. This won't be another prequel trilogy". That's literally what this movie was to me, reassurance. I'm hopeful for the coming movies now in a way I hadn't been before watching it.

Now, despite it basically being a remake, the main three characters are much more fleshed out than any previous Star Wars movie. They have more dimension and more progression. I'm genuinely curious to see where they go. Ditto for Kylo Ren.

The movies also show that a lot of coincidences tend to occur thanks to the force and that explains some of the reasons certain characters are brought together and what not.

Everyone says he wussed out but in the books and in this movie Chewie's Bowcaster is shown to be a far stronger weapon than a simple blaster. Yes he stopped a laser mid fire. However, that was also a situation where he was completely in control and had the upper hand. Here he had just killed his father and was clearly struggling with himself. People complain that he lost a lightsaber duel to a novice but he had been shot by a bowcaster and again, had just killed his father. Ignoring the father thing, that bowcaster would have killed basically anyone else and he took the shot then pursued Rey and fought her and Finn. The fact that he could stand, let alone fight after taking that shot actually means he's pretty badass.

As for the last point, Rey is one of three main characters. She does get a lot of the focus but there are three main characters, Poe, Finn and Rey. One woman out of three. Even if you argue Poe isn't a main character that means it's still one woman out of two main characters. I'm not sure how this translates to "feminist" agenda.

Your feminist agenda argument makes less sense when you consider that strong female characters were part of the Star Wars universe from the very first movie. Leia took an active role in her rescue and did just as much as the guys. Later she also was instrumental in saving Han's life. A strong female main character is nothing new and not part of some agenda.  Personally, I'm happy to see diverse characters and I'm a tall white dude.

["Cane Dewey" Johnson]

But isn't the idea that The Force Awakens borrows liberally from A New Hope in order to reassure Star Wars fans that there won't be a repeat of the prequels actually not that reassuring? That the people behind these movies have so few new ideas for a galaxy far, far away that they just repeat, almost exactly, a lot of the elements of what has worked before?

"Not being the prequels" didn't have to mean that the people in charge had to go with the "make it exactly like the first one" play. I shouldn't have spend $15 to watch a two hour, sixteen minute prologue to finally get a new take on a property with new characters come Episode 8.

[Bub (BLM)]

I didn't like BB-8 or Finn. That's pretty much where my dislikes end.

[schma]

Dec 5, 2016 1:47:07 GMT -5 "Cane Dewey" Johnson said:

But isn't the idea that The Force Awakens borrows liberally from A New Hope in order to reassure Star Wars fans that there won't be a repeat of the prequels actually not that reassuring? That the people behind these movies have so few new ideas for a galaxy far, far away that they just repeat, almost exactly, a lot of the elements of what has worked before?

"Not being the prequels" didn't have to mean that the people in charge had to go with the "make it exactly like the first one" play. I shouldn't have spend $15 to watch a two hour, sixteen minute prologue to finally get a new take on a property with new characters come Episode 8.

That's a fair point.  I can definitely see where you're coming from.  That said, I think these characters were developed far more than Han, Luke, Leia and Darth were in A New Hope and that's an encouraging sign.  I did really enjoy watching the Force Awakens though. 

I think Episode 8 will determine whether they're just rehashing old ideas or actually trying to do something new.  The legacy of the Force Awakens will depend a lot on that.

[Cela]

Agreed with OP.

Also let's add, the Republic Army being called The Resistance for some reason. We get it, rebels are totally cool. But you can't be the resistance when you're the ones in power!

[schma]

Dec 5, 2016 3:17:27 GMT -5 Cela said:

Agreed with OP.

Also let's add, the Republic Army being called The Resistance for some reason. We get it, rebels are totally cool. But you can't be the resistance when you're the ones in power!

They didn't really clearly establish who was in power since the original EU isn't canon.  My guess is that if they're the resistance then a lot of the empire still exists in some form, though it may be greatly diminished.

[Mighty Attack Tribble]

Dec 5, 2016 3:17:27 GMT -5 Cela said:

Agreed with OP.

Also let's add, the Republic Army being called The Resistance for some reason. We get it, rebels are totally cool. But you can't be the resistance when you're the ones in power!

They're not the Republic army, because there is none.

I'm not sure exactly how much of it is touched on in the movie itself, but the back story is the Empire and the New Republic signed a peace treaty, which resulted in the demilitarisation of the New Republic and the disbanding of the Empire's military academies and recruitment program. Leia, Akbar, and the other military leaders didn't trust the Empire to hold to the treaty so split off from the New Republic in preparation for the Empire to break it. The Empire similarly fragmented, with the more hardline groups forming the First Order with the goal of staging a military coup.

The sequel trilogy is basically a guerrilla army vs. a confederacy.

[Ryback on a Pole!]

At the time I really enjoyed the movie but in hindsight, it was seriously flawed.

Rey was too much of a Mary-Sue and a very boring character.
The Starkiller Base made little sense.
The Starkiller Base's attack had no emotional impact whatsoever. The Death Star destroying Alderaan did.
That badass female Stormtrooper captain had too little a role (Esma her name I think?).
The storytelling was a bit skew-whiff.
Having Rey beat Kylo Ren was a daft move. Even though Ren was injured, there's really little excuse for it. It was poor storytelling and made little sense.

On the plus side,

Kylo Ren was a great character. I actually liked that beneath the mask he was whiny, angsty, emotional-unstable brat.
The humour was quite good.
The special effects looked awesome.
I liked the building up as the bowcaster as a badass weapon.
The twist that Rey was the jedi rather than Finn caught me by surprise.
Finn and Poe's chemistry was great.
A few good emotional bits.

[Hit Girl]

I wonder why people even bother trying to create new Jedi orders at all.

It's inevitable that sooner or later, one will turn and turn into a mass murderer.

If I was an ordinary joe living in the Star Wars universe, I would fear and hate anything and anyone associated with the Force.

[Ryback on a Pole!]

Another thing I disliked, the First Order were boring. Space Nazis, wow... how original.

Why not go for a different twist? There are plenty of real life villains they could have based them off without going to the default and overplayed "make them Nazis" thing.

[HMARK Center]

Dec 5, 2016 1:15:51 GMT -5 @uppitynerd said:

I think my problem with Starkiller is it just kinda shows up mid movie, none of heroes really show much concern that it exists or how much destruction it caused. Then it's destroyed like thirty minutes later, they really didn't have a plan and figured out how to destroy it on a hunch.

Unlike the Death Star where destroying it was the plot of the entire first movie, third movie, made sure it showed up in the prequel films, and coming to theatres in two weeks is a whole movie on how the rebels got the plans. I don't watch the show but I'm sure Rebels touched on it a bit to.

So your telling me they built Starkiller Base and the good guys had no clue the entire time?

This type of criticism makes a lot more sense to me. While TFA wasn't a bad movie, and it even had some genuinely great moments, it still had, for my money, too much of an air of "we're setting up a franchise, here" and not enough focus on really solidifying how the galaxy had changed since Return of the Jedi.

By taking everything back to square one and making it a "rebels vs. imperials" thing again, we're denied a chance to see how our original heroes helped to shape a new government and society, which in my book is a much more interesting place for them to run into new conflicts and introduce new the characters in. And yeah, Starkiller Base just kind of appears, completely throws everything back to original trilogy status quo in one swoop, and then, well, la dee dah. Han even lampshades it with the whole "ok, so where's its big weakness?" line.

If the mcguffin focus was going to be on finding Luke, then make that the heart of the conflict, not just an Episode IV rehash. Worrying about the rest is kind of silly, and really indicative of the types of hurdles that still exist toward simply getting female leads in major movies that aren't pre-existing characters (e.g. I'm sure there won't be an outcry over Wonder Woman, since she's been established for so long).