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Post by Mike Strike on Dec 5, 2016 7:38:03 GMT -5
My main problem is that it wasn't Jacen & Jaina Solo.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 5, 2016 7:39:19 GMT -5
Agreed with OP. Also let's add, the Republic Army being called The Resistance for some reason. We get it, rebels are totally cool. But you can't be the resistance when you're the ones in power! It's not the Republic Army.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 5, 2016 8:22:41 GMT -5
If Star Wars DOES have a feminist agenda, then that's another reason why it's one of my all time favorite franchises.
That's the last thing I'll say on this topic.
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Dec 5, 2016 9:54:55 GMT -5
The first time I watched it I was happy as a pig in shit. But after watching it a second time after hype had died down I was left thinking "huh, it actually wasn't that great"
My issues are mainly duplicated from the OP
Don't get me wrong I like it but I'm gonna be honest, I prefer "Revenge of the sith" & "original Trilogy".
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Lupin the Third
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Post by Lupin the Third on Dec 5, 2016 9:59:32 GMT -5
One of my first thoughts when I saw it was "The Death Star didn't work twice, what was makingbit bigger supposed to accomplish?" In the Expanded universe "let's do the Death Star again" is pretty much the Empire's only plan. I'm just wondering which Galactic Bank or Galactic Credit Union was stupid enough to give them a loan for a third, and even BIGGER, Death Star.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Dec 5, 2016 10:08:24 GMT -5
In the Expanded universe "let's do the Death Star again" is pretty much the Empire's only plan. I'm just wondering which Galactic Bank or Galactic Credit Union was stupid enough to give them a loan for a third, and even BIGGER, Death Star. Anthem.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Dec 5, 2016 10:53:51 GMT -5
Brief thoughts
The Good The chemistry of the lead characters was really great. I'm sure everyone wants to see more of the Poe Dameron/Finn bromance. There were no weak performances from the actors, including Harrison Ford who could have easily phoned it in for a paycheck. He made slipping back into Han Solo seem so effortless.
Everything with Chewbacca. The bowcaster getting its time to shine was great, even if it was implausible that Solo didn't learn about how it worked until now. Great moments like with the nurse. Him going into a rage, and his sadness afterwards were some of the most effective parts of the movie on an emotional level and it was done without words.
The overall art design FEELS like Star Wars, something the prequels failed miserably at. GREAT care was obviously taken to make everything consistent with the OT, even when it comes to cinematography, which I really appreciate.
Kylo Ren having an inverted struggle with the light side. Actually, Kylo Ren in general was probably my favorite character in the movie, though Poe Dameron just oozes cool.
Most of the action sequences were very well done. The assault on Maz's cantina with Poe Dameron leading the X-Wings was fantastic
BB-8 is a great addition to the droid roster. The thumbs up with the lighter was a really fun moment.
The Bad The laziness of basically remaking A New Hope. There is just no reason that the storytelling should have been that beat-for-beat. The entire sequence with those creatures Han Solo was smuggling was just too cornball for me. Better for Solo to simply make a slick exit from the gangs then to bring in those CGI monsters. Or have him dispatch of the gangs like he did with Greedo, coldly shooting first so to speak.
I think Rey is going to be revealed to have Jedi training, but had her memory wiped. Once that piece falls into place, her being as skilled as she is makes sense. I would have appreciated some recognition from her or another character that she is far more skilled in using force powers than she ought to be.
Captain Phasma was criminally underutilized.
The Ugly The completely vague nature of the galaxy's political situation. It is unacceptable to hit the reset button and have our heroes be a rebellion still. It would be much clearer, and simpler, if the First Order was a less grand insurgent movement striking out at a complacent New Republic. Invert the situation of the OT, just like Kylo Ren is an inverted Luke Skywalker. Have Starkiller base be the ending of the SECOND movie after building up to it, with the destruction of the New Republic being the down note ending like Empire Strikes Back, instead of trying to ape the destruction of Alderaan. Explain that the First Order found Starkiller Base, instead of forcing it into a role where it must have vast resources
Maz - I thought the CGI work on Maz was absolutely terrible, and would have much preferred a practical puppet or costume. This is made worse by the fact that the scene leading up to Maz is a Cantina scene filled with practical costumes and puppets. She completely took me out of the movie, every bit as bad as anything from the prequels.
Finn goes from PTSD and hating violence to gleefully killing his former teammates in about 30 seconds. If that is his motivation for leaving the First Order, develop it, don't drop it.
Overall it has me looking forward to the next movies, but also has me wishing that it could have been as great a movie as it should been.
This is better than the prequel trilogy, which had me ranging from disappointment to seething rage, but let's not use that low bar as the standard.
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Post by xCompackx on Dec 5, 2016 10:54:30 GMT -5
In the Expanded universe "let's do the Death Star again" is pretty much the Empire's only plan. I'm just wondering which Galactic Bank or Galactic Credit Union was stupid enough to give them a loan for a third, and even BIGGER, Death Star. I kind of wonder whether Snoke either inherited or stole Palpatine's money and that's how he paid for the Starkiller Base. I mean, Palpatine was a senator and then an emperor; guy must've been loaded.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Dec 5, 2016 10:54:41 GMT -5
In the Expanded universe "let's do the Death Star again" is pretty much the Empire's only plan. I'm just wondering which Galactic Bank or Galactic Credit Union was stupid enough to give them a loan for a third, and even BIGGER, Death Star. Makes me think of this scene
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Post by Cela on Dec 5, 2016 13:39:27 GMT -5
Agreed with OP. Also let's add, the Republic Army being called The Resistance for some reason. We get it, rebels are totally cool. But you can't be the resistance when you're the ones in power! They're not the Republic army, because there is none. I'm not sure exactly how much of it is touched on in the movie itself, but the back story is the Empire and the New Republic signed a peace treaty, which resulted in the demilitarisation of the New Republic and the disbanding of the Empire's military academies and recruitment program. Leia, Akbar, and the other military leaders didn't trust the Empire to hold to the treaty so split off from the New Republic in preparation for the Empire to break it. The Empire similarly fragmented, with the more hardline groups forming the First Order with the goal of staging a military coup. The sequel trilogy is basically a guerrilla army vs. a confederacy. As this was not mentioned in any of the movies, which should serve as a standalone, this still counts as bad writing. Though, cool, thanks for sharing. Makes a bit of sense.
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Post by Cela on Dec 5, 2016 13:42:20 GMT -5
Agreed with OP. Also let's add, the Republic Army being called The Resistance for some reason. We get it, rebels are totally cool. But you can't be the resistance when you're the ones in power! It's not the Republic Army. Then what was the Republic Army? I get it if it's a Sea Hawk situation, where British Privateers are messing with Spanish Shipping to prevent global domination, but there should still be some sort of standing army, and the only non stormtrooper military was the Resistance.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 5, 2016 13:48:31 GMT -5
It's not the Republic Army. Then what was the Republic Army? I get it if it's a Sea Hawk situation, where British Privateers are messing with Spanish Shipping to prevent global domination, but there should still be some sort of standing army, and the only non stormtrooper military was the Resistance. The Resistance exists solely to counter the First Order, because the New Republic didn't see them as a threat. So they may have had an army but it would have been reduced as they were at peace time for decades with nothing that was considered any kind of threat.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 5, 2016 16:20:41 GMT -5
The New Republic didn't see the First Order as a threat, despite the fact they have the resources to build ships, a massive army, and a weapon capable of eating stars, not to mention having a guy on their side who can stop blaster bolts in mid-air.
I think the New Republic might be even stupider than the Old Republic.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Dec 5, 2016 16:29:40 GMT -5
The New Republic didn't see the First Order as a threat, despite the fact they have the resources to build ships, a massive army, and a weapon capable of eating stars, not to mention having a guy on their side who can stop blaster bolts in mid-air. I think the New Republic might be even stupider than the Old Republic. Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Dec 5, 2016 17:05:21 GMT -5
Regarding Rey picking up Force powers left and right, I got the impression that she was trained as a kid, had that blocked somehow, and then started remembering those sls when Kylo's attempt to root around her head undid the block. Additionally, they've shown that Ezra in Rebels could use certain powers completely untreained. He did not even realize that he was doing it. That means that they have four canon examples of a neophyte Force user (five if Finn proves to be one as well) and the two Skywalkers were the relative duds.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Dec 5, 2016 17:15:41 GMT -5
The New Republic didn't see the First Order as a threat, despite the fact they have the resources to build ships, a massive army, and a weapon capable of eating stars, not to mention having a guy on their side who can stop blaster bolts in mid-air. I think the New Republic might be even stupider than the Old Republic. Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb Yeah, the New Republic got what was coming to it. Idiots.
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Post by Starshine on Dec 5, 2016 18:29:15 GMT -5
I love that Ren was such a petulant child. He could have easily been a boring Darth Vader clone but they actually went out of the way to not only make him an effective villain, but also add some qualitative depth to his character.
As for Ray's ease at adapting to the force, I'm willing to see what they reveal about her backstory in the next movies before I cast any judgement here. They've done enough to gain my benefit of the doubt.
As for the complaints about the movie mirroring A New Hope. I understand the criticism, and sympathise with those it bothers. But at the same time I respect that they made a conscious decision to only reference the point after the prequels to help wash away their stink. This was a total nostalgia trip for a lot of fans, lapsed and die hard alike, and I feel tapping into those feelings was very important for the future health of the series. A lot of interest tied into this franchise is based off how the original trilogy made those then young people feel, and by mimicking those same themes it can only give them hope we're not going to see the same mistakes made this time. Now, if the next move continues in this fashion, I think it's a very fair criticism. These movies still need their own voices, and while Force Awakens opened the doors, they still need to support their new house on their own merits.
Finally this whole "feminist agenda" thing is gross. Let's never talk about Ghostbusters again. That movie is total dogshit. The fact they actively tried to pick fights, and fabricate data to push their anti-sexist stance makes it a truly disgusting production all around.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 5, 2016 19:02:18 GMT -5
I love that Ren was such a petulant child. He could have easily been a boring Darth Vader clone but they actually went out of the way to not only make him an effective villain, but also add some qualitative depth to his character. As for Ray's ease at adapting to the force, I'm willing to see what they reveal about her backstory in the next movies before I cast any judgement here. They've done enough to gain my benefit of the doubt. As for the complaints about the movie mirroring A New Hope. I understand the criticism, and sympathise with those it bothers. But at the same time I respect that they made a conscious decision to only reference the point after the prequels to help wash away their stink. This was a total nostalgia trip for a lot of fans, lapsed and die hard alike, and I feel tapping into those feelings was very important for the future health of the series. A lot of interest tied into this franchise is based off how the original trilogy made those then young people feel, and by mimicking those same themes it can only give them hope we're not going to see the same mistakes made this time. Now, if the next move continues in this fashion, I think it's a very fair criticism. These movies still need their own voices, and while Force Awakens opened the doors, they still need to support their new house on their own merits. Finally this whole "feminist agenda" thing is gross. Let's never talk about Ghostbusters again. That movie is total dogshit. The fact they actively tried to pick fights, and fabricate data to push their anti-sexist stance makes it a truly disgusting production all around. A sincere push for wider variety in movie protagonists is gross?
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Post by Starshine on Dec 5, 2016 19:05:13 GMT -5
I love that Ren was such a petulant child. He could have easily been a boring Darth Vader clone but they actually went out of the way to not only make him an effective villain, but also add some qualitative depth to his character. As for Ray's ease at adapting to the force, I'm willing to see what they reveal about her backstory in the next movies before I cast any judgement here. They've done enough to gain my benefit of the doubt. As for the complaints about the movie mirroring A New Hope. I understand the criticism, and sympathise with those it bothers. But at the same time I respect that they made a conscious decision to only reference the point after the prequels to help wash away their stink. This was a total nostalgia trip for a lot of fans, lapsed and die hard alike, and I feel tapping into those feelings was very important for the future health of the series. A lot of interest tied into this franchise is based off how the original trilogy made those then young people feel, and by mimicking those same themes it can only give them hope we're not going to see the same mistakes made this time. Now, if the next move continues in this fashion, I think it's a very fair criticism. These movies still need their own voices, and while Force Awakens opened the doors, they still need to support their new house on their own merits. Finally this whole "feminist agenda" thing is gross. Let's never talk about Ghostbusters again. That movie is total dogshit. The fact they actively tried to pick fights, and fabricate data to push their anti-sexist stance makes it a truly disgusting production all around. A sincere push for wider variety in movie protagonists is gross? Which side uses the term "feminist agenda?"
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 5, 2016 19:06:54 GMT -5
A sincere push for wider variety in movie protagonists is gross? Which side uses the term "feminist agenda?" That's not the issue. I just don't see how that movie is considered so harmful.
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