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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Mar 26, 2018 17:09:03 GMT -5
JR accidentally calling ZSJ as Ospreay, damn dude. Didn't that happen last year too? Would think he could tell them apart by now. That assumes that he gives a shit.
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Facetious
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Post by Facetious on Mar 26, 2018 18:22:38 GMT -5
JR's in it for a paycheck and will give any excuse to get away with it. He's been at this for, what, two years? I'm glad people are starting to take notice instead of using the ol "it's JR HE'S A LEGEND LEAVE HIM ALONE". I'd take Cole over JR right now.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 26, 2018 18:33:18 GMT -5
Didn't that happen last year too? Would think he could tell them apart by now. JR triggered me a bit when he sarcastically apologized for absolutely butchering "Shurl's" name (intentionally saying it wrong yet again when doing so). I mean it's one thing to mess up on pronouncing a guy's name, it's another when you acknowledge you screwed it up and continue to be disrespectful of the talent by still pronouncing it wrong. This isn't the JR of the Attitude Era, this is the JR of the Attitude Problem. Get off the damned table if you can't do your job properly. Between that and that weird dip point in the middle where some fans got a chant going and the commentators both just sort of low-key shat all over them for it, they were in rare form last night as far as bad attitude goes. Just absolutely horrendous way to carry themselves on a show where they're only even around because of Axs and aren't really doing anything to make New Japan want to keep them around.
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Post by Heeltown, USA on Mar 26, 2018 21:05:08 GMT -5
I can't count how many times watching last night that I cringed at the commentary for not knowing or selling the storyline undertones of each match.
Im getting better at Japanese, but its still a huge hurdle to understand when it is being spoken. That said, I would have loved to hear the New Japan team calling it. Puro announcers always seem on the verge of having an orgasm when big moves are hit.
Even through the language barrier it makes matches so much better.
I'll give Kelly and Callis their due though, I enjoy them too.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 21:41:39 GMT -5
Didn't that happen last year too? Would think he could tell them apart by now. JR triggered me a bit when he sarcastically apologized for absolutely butchering "Shurl's" name (intentionally saying it wrong yet again when doing so). I mean it's one thing to mess up on pronouncing a guy's name, it's another when you acknowledge you screwed it up and continue to be disrespectful of the talent by still pronouncing it wrong. This isn't the JR of the Attitude Era, this is the JR of the Attitude Problem. Get off the damned table if you can't do your job properly. My mind always goes to this random show I stumbled across at one point where JR said AJ and Vader were the only foreigners to win the IWGP title more than once and then went off on this incredibly long tangent about how if he was wrong he was sure some loser in their parents' basement would let him hear about it. Which'd be a stupid and insufferable aside even if he weren't wrong, which of course he was.
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Post by cabbageboy on Mar 26, 2018 22:39:24 GMT -5
See, I actually enjoy Ross and Barnett on the weekly TV, but the psychology of it is far different. They are called upon to provide commentary on AXS for already taped matches that are airing weeks or even months after the fact. So if they are a bit more laid back and go off on riffs, it can be edited down or even kind of amusing. It's when you put the team on a live special that this questionable enthusiasm comes to the forefront. As far as JR screwing up names, this is hardly new. The guy spent years mixing up Jericho and Benoit.
I have to ask a serious question: What pray tell are the rules in NJPW? I find this frustrating. Matches like Jericho/Omega were no DQ, so apparently rules DO exist. Yet last night I saw Suzuki hit Ishii with a chair (he usually does this, never DQed), and in all of these tag matches there was no attempt by the ref to keep legal men in the ring and illegal men on the outside. Good grief, the actual finish of the main event was an illegal act (Omega and Ibushi covering at the same time, which should NOT be counted).
I have ranted about tag wrestling in the past on other threads. It drives me nuts to see guys making illegal tags (feet on the ropes leaning in, hands between ropes reaching in, etc.). If NJPW is basically like lucha, then this needs to be a point. But they do make actual legal tags. It's just this weird ECW like cognitive dissonance where you can see Omega jump in the ring and brawl with the Bucks as the illegal man, but then a few moments later he's on the apron begging for a hot tag. It makes it impossible to build anything in a tag match when everyone can just do whatever they want without a ref intervening. If WWE tag wrestling is tedium galore with the tried and true "face in peril, false tags, etc." formula match, NJPW is at the other end of the spectrum. Just do an unhinged ECW brawl, or do lucha style tag stuff. But what they are doing to me doesn't make sense.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2018 1:26:20 GMT -5
See, I actually enjoy Ross and Barnett on the weekly TV, but the psychology of it is far different. They are called upon to provide commentary on AXS for already taped matches that are airing weeks or even months after the fact. So if they are a bit more laid back and go off on riffs, it can be edited down or even kind of amusing. It's when you put the team on a live special that this questionable enthusiasm comes to the forefront. As far as JR screwing up names, this is hardly new. The guy spent years mixing up Jericho and Benoit. I have to ask a serious question: What pray tell are the rules in NJPW? I find this frustrating. Matches like Jericho/Omega were no DQ, so apparently rules DO exist. Yet last night I saw Suzuki hit Ishii with a chair (he usually does this, never DQed), and in all of these tag matches there was no attempt by the ref to keep legal men in the ring and illegal men on the outside. Good grief, the actual finish of the main event was an illegal act (Omega and Ibushi covering at the same time, which should NOT be counted). I have ranted about tag wrestling in the past on other threads. It drives me nuts to see guys making illegal tags (feet on the ropes leaning in, hands between ropes reaching in, etc.). If NJPW is basically like lucha, then this needs to be a point. But they do make actual legal tags. It's just this weird ECW like cognitive dissonance where you can see Omega jump in the ring and brawl with the Bucks as the illegal man, but then a few moments later he's on the apron begging for a hot tag. It makes it impossible to build anything in a tag match when everyone can just do whatever they want without a ref intervening. If WWE tag wrestling is tedium galore with the tried and true "face in peril, false tags, etc." formula match, NJPW is at the other end of the spectrum. Just do an unhinged ECW brawl, or do lucha style tag stuff. But what they are doing to me doesn't make sense. Yeah it's easily the most frustrating think about NJPW. They seem to roll with the idea that they just have the most gutless refs in the business. The plus side is that DQ finishes are a bit of a wet fart anyways, but the downside is that there's no sense of order to anything. I can overlook it because they excel at so much else, but it does seem like it shouldn't be too hard to correct this problem. Jericho/Omega as a no DQ match was somewhat arbitrary but it was a judgment call on Jericho's part so he can bend the rules without making the ref look like some asshole. Seemed like it was a matter of personal taste for him.
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Post by AwamoriRock on Mar 27, 2018 1:46:24 GMT -5
It's not entirely limited to NJPW (other Japanese promotions are similar) but NJPW probably puts itself in these positions the most. An official won't stop a match unless given absolutely no choice, and it's usually interpreted as a ref's discretion and also because Japanese fans absolutely loathe DQ finishes and the ref knows it. They are usually very lax about shenanigans that go on outside the ring, even if it leads to weapons being used (and even more lax if both guys get into it). In the ring stuff gets more strict, usually.
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Fundertaker
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Post by Fundertaker on Mar 27, 2018 3:40:21 GMT -5
DQ's are subjective in Japan. Weapon usage is allowed, as is small time interference, since wrestlers are supposed to overcome such things. Only when the ref thinks it's gone too far and can't get everyone back on track does he call for the DQ.
I guess that's the benefit of following it for over a decade at this point, I can't even notice.
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Post by cabbageboy on Mar 27, 2018 7:55:07 GMT -5
I think it depends on the match. The LIJ 8 man tag the other night is a match that one would expect to break down into chaos at some point (which it did), but it wasn't such a lengthy time period as to be jarring. It really was mostly the main event since it went on the longest, with extended sequences of all 4 men in the ring. Again, just make it a no DQ grudge match or something. Or in the case of someone running in, briefly stop the match until it blows over and once the various parties have gone to the back restart it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2018 8:02:55 GMT -5
Say what you will about Striker but he was the perfect guy to play off of current day JR because Striker knows his shit and at WK9 kept JR in the loop and even antagonized him a bit to get that fire out of JR which finally came out about half way through that show and you could hear JR get legit peeved when striker used more insider terms...specifically when he talks about swerves and being swerved.
Everyone else just lets JR be a f*** up because oh it is JR.
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Post by KobashiChop on Mar 27, 2018 9:40:49 GMT -5
Say what you will about Striker but he was the perfect guy to play off of current day JR because Striker knows his shit and at WK9 kept JR in the loop and even antagonized him a bit to get that fire out of JR which finally came out about half way through that show and you could hear JR get legit peeved when striker used more insider terms...specifically when he talks about swerves and being swerved. Everyone else just lets JR be a f*** up because oh it is JR. Matt Striker is one of the absolute best in the game. His knowledge and enthusiasm shines through every time. He got screwed in WWE by being sat with Cole and Lawler who were unprofessional as f***. I don't get the WWE and their approach to commentary on main shows.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Mar 27, 2018 10:53:36 GMT -5
See, I actually enjoy Ross and Barnett on the weekly TV, but the psychology of it is far different. They are called upon to provide commentary on AXS for already taped matches that are airing weeks or even months after the fact. So if they are a bit more laid back and go off on riffs, it can be edited down or even kind of amusing. It's when you put the team on a live special that this questionable enthusiasm comes to the forefront. As far as JR screwing up names, this is hardly new. The guy spent years mixing up Jericho and Benoit. I have to ask a serious question: What pray tell are the rules in NJPW? I find this frustrating. Matches like Jericho/Omega were no DQ, so apparently rules DO exist. Yet last night I saw Suzuki hit Ishii with a chair (he usually does this, never DQed), and in all of these tag matches there was no attempt by the ref to keep legal men in the ring and illegal men on the outside. Good grief, the actual finish of the main event was an illegal act (Omega and Ibushi covering at the same time, which should NOT be counted). I have ranted about tag wrestling in the past on other threads. It drives me nuts to see guys making illegal tags (feet on the ropes leaning in, hands between ropes reaching in, etc.). If NJPW is basically like lucha, then this needs to be a point. But they do make actual legal tags. It's just this weird ECW like cognitive dissonance where you can see Omega jump in the ring and brawl with the Bucks as the illegal man, but then a few moments later he's on the apron begging for a hot tag. It makes it impossible to build anything in a tag match when everyone can just do whatever they want without a ref intervening. If WWE tag wrestling is tedium galore with the tried and true "face in peril, false tags, etc." formula match, NJPW is at the other end of the spectrum. Just do an unhinged ECW brawl, or do lucha style tag stuff. But what they are doing to me doesn't make sense. Yeah, I love NJPW, but they do an awful job of protecting their refs credibility. They let them look like total geeks all the time
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Post by cabbageboy on Mar 27, 2018 11:00:40 GMT -5
Has Striker improved since he was in WWE? Because when he was there he was most boorish, obnoxious prick this side of Josh Mathews. The guy did far too much right wing political BS on commentary as well, and getting political is not even something JBL did a ton of on commentary.
Oh, I never did comment on the awesome Suzuki/Sabre vs. Okada/Ishii match. Great match. I will say though that it did bring to light something that kind of perplexes me about Okada. It seems far too often like the other guys in his matches come off like the bigger deal. Sabre had a crazy amount of heat, mainly insane heel heat (though he had some cheers). Suzuki and Ishii predictably tore the house down and came off like the main event level guys. Okada was just kind of there. I suppose the rationale could be that Okada is already a made man so he's fine with letting other guys get over since he usually gets the win. It just becomes a dilemma when his opponents or partners actually come off like the bigger deal, or get more over than him after the match.
I don't think NJPW fully grasps the awesomeness of Ishii.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2018 11:20:46 GMT -5
Has Striker improved since he was in WWE? Because when he was there he was most boorish, obnoxious prick this side of Josh Mathews. The guy did far too much right wing political BS on commentary as well, and getting political is not even something JBL did a ton of on commentary. He has improved immensely IMO but yes he still has his "quirks" if you will that will just annoy people regardless...like if he themeatically can fit in a pun he will do it. And most will refer to his "NO THIGH SLAPPING HERE" comment as something else people refer to when shitting on him. I have only been really bothered with him one single time and it was during a LU match where he literally ran through every single military pun imaginable and then some , other than that match IMO he is amongst the best commentators if not the best right now...again he knows his shit and when he is on he is the best I like to refer to his commentary during the trios championship finals in LU and the ending to ultima lucha tres as his best commentating moments.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Mar 27, 2018 11:28:45 GMT -5
My main issue with Striker was when he'd come up with a list of 18 nicknames for a guy and then feel like he'd have to run through ALL OF THEM every time he talked about a guy.
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Post by corndog on Mar 27, 2018 12:00:23 GMT -5
See, I actually enjoy Ross and Barnett on the weekly TV, but the psychology of it is far different. They are called upon to provide commentary on AXS for already taped matches that are airing weeks or even months after the fact. So if they are a bit more laid back and go off on riffs, it can be edited down or even kind of amusing. It's when you put the team on a live special that this questionable enthusiasm comes to the forefront. As far as JR screwing up names, this is hardly new. The guy spent years mixing up Jericho and Benoit. I have to ask a serious question: What pray tell are the rules in NJPW? I find this frustrating. Matches like Jericho/Omega were no DQ, so apparently rules DO exist. Yet last night I saw Suzuki hit Ishii with a chair (he usually does this, never DQed), and in all of these tag matches there was no attempt by the ref to keep legal men in the ring and illegal men on the outside. Good grief, the actual finish of the main event was an illegal act (Omega and Ibushi covering at the same time, which should NOT be counted). I have ranted about tag wrestling in the past on other threads. It drives me nuts to see guys making illegal tags (feet on the ropes leaning in, hands between ropes reaching in, etc.). If NJPW is basically like lucha, then this needs to be a point. But they do make actual legal tags. It's just this weird ECW like cognitive dissonance where you can see Omega jump in the ring and brawl with the Bucks as the illegal man, but then a few moments later he's on the apron begging for a hot tag. It makes it impossible to build anything in a tag match when everyone can just do whatever they want without a ref intervening. If WWE tag wrestling is tedium galore with the tried and true "face in peril, false tags, etc." formula match, NJPW is at the other end of the spectrum. Just do an unhinged ECW brawl, or do lucha style tag stuff. But what they are doing to me doesn't make sense. Just from what I have seen, something like hitting a chair shot in the ring will get a disqualification. Weapons are allowed outside of the ring, but if, let's say a guy hits someone with a chair outside of the ring and then rolls him in for a pin, the ref(especially red shoes) won't count it. Same with if you get caught doing an illegal action in the ring such as choking or a low blow, the ref simply won't count the pin. But yeah for the most part, refs let a lot go, because Japanese crowds want a clean finish. Also, a lot of "distraction" is used in tag matches and by seconds(usually stablemates that accompany a competitor to the ring). Sometimes if the seconds get caught interfering, they will be barred from ringside, especially in bigger matches.
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Post by cabbageboy on Mar 27, 2018 14:19:32 GMT -5
Oh man, that is just begging for Jesse Ventura's whole rant about shooting a guy with a shotgun outside the ring. The whole aspect of not counting the pin is curious, since if the ref isn't going to count that pin, why would he count future pin attempts given that the chair shot changed the entire match?
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on Mar 28, 2018 8:18:15 GMT -5
I just finished watching, a very fun event taken down a notch by lackluster production, and absolutely HORRIBLE f***ing announcing. I'm very forgiving, but good god.
Kevin Kelly and Don Callis are goddam perfect. Why weren't they there? Callis is the second coming of 90's heel Jerry Lawler, the dude has me cracking up at least once a show, but JR has no business calling New Japan matches. He f***s up names, moves, names, names, moves, names, and then gets defensive and says "people on Twitter will be giving me grief" (yeah duh) or that "I'm from Oklahoma...". JR I'm sure people from Oklahoma can pronounce Tama Tonga or Marty Scurll's f***ing name.
You have one job. To commentate. Your job as commentator is to speak and convey what's going on to the people. Part of that job is knowing that it's called the "One Winged Angel" and that Zach Sabre and Will Ospreay are yet again not the same f***ing person.
I've never really hated JR before, but man he had me so annoyed. and his colleague wasn't much better, especially after that sound byte we weren't supposed to hear about Roppongi 3K "need to f***ing get out of the ring faster".
Both those dudes can f*** off. I watched the main event with Japanese commentary, I couldn't take it anymore.
Callis/Kelly from now on please.
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Post by Andy Martin on Mar 28, 2018 10:00:35 GMT -5
Say what you will about Striker but he was the perfect guy to play off of current day JR because Striker knows his shit and at WK9 kept JR in the loop and even antagonized him a bit to get that fire out of JR which finally came out about half way through that show and you could hear JR get legit peeved when striker used more insider terms...specifically when he talks about swerves and being swerved. Everyone else just lets JR be a f*** up because oh it is JR. Matt Striker is one of the absolute best in the game. His knowledge and enthusiasm shines through every time. He got screwed in WWE by being sat with Cole and Lawler who were unprofessional as f***. I don't get the WWE and their approach to commentary on main shows. Striker was also an insufferable twat back then, too. He's reeled it in a bit in recent years but he still has his *ahem* moments.
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