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Post by HMARK Center on May 9, 2018 20:28:27 GMT -5
Reading this thread, I'm struck by how weird it would be to turn Becky heel; I don't know a ton about her work, but what I've seen of her she comes off as such a natural babyface, I'm not quite sure why anybody would want to mess with that.
Makes me think of the old "shades of grey" argument; I think too many people view "shades of grey" booking as "everybody is basically an asshole" (see: Attitude Era), but the true nature of that type of booking should be that everyone on the roster has a character type, and when those characters play off one another sometimes one seems more cheer-worthy than the other, and you kind of roll with it and then figure out once the storyline is winding down where this leaves both characters. A character/personality like Becky feels like someone who shouldn't turn fully heel unless a storyline she's in brings her to a moral event horizon of some kind, where she either has to sell her soul for something because she feels she has no other way of achieving whatever her goal might be. Just casually doing it because "OH NO LOSING STREAK" to set her up for an Asuka feud or something makes the eventual clash feel more empty than it otherwise would, I think, since the clash people want would be both women at their optimum both in terms of the ring work and their characters.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 9, 2018 20:33:15 GMT -5
Reading this thread, I'm struck by how weird it would be to turn Becky heel; I don't know a ton about her work, but what I've seen of her she comes off as such a natural babyface, I'm not quite sure why anybody would want to mess with that. Makes me think of the old "shades of grey" argument; I think too many people view "shades of grey" booking as "everybody is basically an asshole" (see: Attitude Era), but the true nature of that type of booking should be that everyone on the roster has a character type, and when those characters play off one another sometimes one seems more cheer-worthy than the other, and you kind of roll with it and then figure out once the storyline is winding down where this leaves both characters. A character/personality like Becky feels like someone who shouldn't turn fully heel unless a storyline she's in brings her to a moral event horizon of some kind, where she either has to sell her soul for something because she feels she has no other way of achieving whatever her goal might be. Just casually doing it because "OH NO LOSING STREAK" to set her up for an Asuka feud or something makes the eventual clash feel more empty than it otherwise would, I think, since the clash people want would be both women at their optimum both in terms of the ring work and their characters. Well the thing is she can actually pull off being a heel Hell, she didn't really start getting traction until she latched on to Sasha and they had that run for a while before she eventually started to go against Sasha and wanted to prove she is great and is championship material too
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2018 20:35:34 GMT -5
Becky is a weird one for me. She’s pretty, she’s good in the ring, and seems like a good person, but I just don’t care about anything that she does.
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Post by Prince Petty on May 9, 2018 21:03:55 GMT -5
Reading this thread, I'm struck by how weird it would be to turn Becky heel; I don't know a ton about her work, but what I've seen of her she comes off as such a natural babyface, I'm not quite sure why anybody would want to mess with that. Makes me think of the old "shades of grey" argument; I think too many people view "shades of grey" booking as "everybody is basically an asshole" (see: Attitude Era), but the true nature of that type of booking should be that everyone on the roster has a character type, and when those characters play off one another sometimes one seems more cheer-worthy than the other, and you kind of roll with it and then figure out once the storyline is winding down where this leaves both characters. A character/personality like Becky feels like someone who shouldn't turn fully heel unless a storyline she's in brings her to a moral event horizon of some kind, where she either has to sell her soul for something because she feels she has no other way of achieving whatever her goal might be. Just casually doing it because "OH NO LOSING STREAK" to set her up for an Asuka feud or something makes the eventual clash feel more empty than it otherwise would, I think, since the clash people want would be both women at their optimum both in terms of the ring work and their characters. This is why I don't want to see a heel turn. I see people say "well, it's working for Sami", but I just think that argument is flawed. Because Sami had those obnoxious qualities as a babyface, and just amplified them as a heel. But Becky just comes off as absolutely, naturally good. Yes, she was heel for a short while, as Sasha's sidekick in NXT, but it wasn't long until she effectively turned face again. Now, with her personality so much more established, I just don't think it would work. For one, I don't think fans would boo her, and two, the only way the WWE would book it would be to make her yet another bitchy heel character. And I don't think she'd be anywhere near as good at that as she is just being herself. It's all the more galling because, the one babyface on Smackdown who absolutely should be a heel is Charlotte. Everything about her gimmick, and her character is just pure heeldom. Aloof, superior athlete with delusions of being the queen of wrestling, and a lineage that descends from the dirtiest player in the game. How is that a babyface?
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Post by HMARK Center on May 9, 2018 22:25:16 GMT -5
Reading this thread, I'm struck by how weird it would be to turn Becky heel; I don't know a ton about her work, but what I've seen of her she comes off as such a natural babyface, I'm not quite sure why anybody would want to mess with that. Makes me think of the old "shades of grey" argument; I think too many people view "shades of grey" booking as "everybody is basically an asshole" (see: Attitude Era), but the true nature of that type of booking should be that everyone on the roster has a character type, and when those characters play off one another sometimes one seems more cheer-worthy than the other, and you kind of roll with it and then figure out once the storyline is winding down where this leaves both characters. A character/personality like Becky feels like someone who shouldn't turn fully heel unless a storyline she's in brings her to a moral event horizon of some kind, where she either has to sell her soul for something because she feels she has no other way of achieving whatever her goal might be. Just casually doing it because "OH NO LOSING STREAK" to set her up for an Asuka feud or something makes the eventual clash feel more empty than it otherwise would, I think, since the clash people want would be both women at their optimum both in terms of the ring work and their characters. Well the thing is she can actually pull off being a heel Hell, she didn't really start getting traction until she latched on to Sasha and they had that run for a while before she eventually started to go against Sasha and wanted to prove she is great and is championship material too Oh, I believe she can do it, I just don't think it's something that should be done flippantly, which is something WWE (and a lot of western wrestling, to be fair) is guilty of very often for my tastes, just turning someone because "we want to do a fuel and SOMEBODY has to be the heel" when, nah, you don't necessarily need to do that to get crowd reactions. If they have a good story idea in mind to turn her and it's a logical one where the turn makes sense, then by all means give it a shot, but this is WWE Creative we're talking about here.
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mystermystery
Dennis Stamp
Still in the White Hummer
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Post by mystermystery on May 9, 2018 22:32:08 GMT -5
She is kind of Smackdown's Bayley.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 9, 2018 22:32:22 GMT -5
Well the thing is she can actually pull off being a heel Hell, she didn't really start getting traction until she latched on to Sasha and they had that run for a while before she eventually started to go against Sasha and wanted to prove she is great and is championship material too Oh, I believe she can do it, I just don't think it's something that should be done flippantly, which is something WWE (and a lot of western wrestling, to be fair) is guilty of very often for my tastes, just turning someone because "we want to do a fuel and SOMEBODY has to be the heel" when, nah, you don't necessarily need to do that to get crowd reactions. If they have a good story idea in mind to turn her and it's a logical one where the turn makes sense, then by all means give it a shot, but this is WWE Creative we're talking about here. Right but that's just the nature of the beast. Sure I would love for them to have some complex nature to themselves like an Okada in NJPW where he will instantly play the heel if the crowd isn't feeling him for that night. The shade of grey works but the audience is so conditioned to good and bad when you venture out into something else with no conclusion you get a weird response (See Sasha and Bayley) I'm not saying just turn her to turn her but you can build something for her to make that turn happen as she is 3rd/4th banana on the SD face women's roster. However, knowing WWE they would turn her and she just becomes the beating stick for Charlotte and Asuka
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Post by Prince Petty on May 9, 2018 22:37:35 GMT -5
Oh, I believe she can do it, I just don't think it's something that should be done flippantly, which is something WWE (and a lot of western wrestling, to be fair) is guilty of very often for my tastes, just turning someone because "we want to do a fuel and SOMEBODY has to be the heel" when, nah, you don't necessarily need to do that to get crowd reactions. If they have a good story idea in mind to turn her and it's a logical one where the turn makes sense, then by all means give it a shot, but this is WWE Creative we're talking about here. Right but that's just the nature of the beast. Sure I would love for them to have some complex nature to themselves like an Okada in NJPW where he will instantly play the heel if the crowd isn't feeling him for that night. The shade of grey works but the audience is so conditioned to good and bad when you venture out into something else with no conclusion you get a weird response (See Sasha and Bayley) I'm not saying just turn her to turn her but you can build something for her to make that turn happen as she is 3rd/4th banana on the SD face women's roster. However, knowing WWE they would turn her and she just becomes the beating stick for Charlotte and Asuka Honestly, I think the best way to book Becky as a star again would be a babyface push against Charlotte, when Charlotte inevitably regains the title. Have Becky win a number one contenders match, and do the Bret/Bulldog 'friendly' feud over the IC Title again, with Charlotte becoming more and more heelish, until she snaps and attacks Becky a week or two before their PPV match. Then you've got a hot crowd, wanting to see Becky get revenge on her former friend. It doesn't need to be complicated, and it would play into the strengths of both women, as performers. I also think they'd have tremendous matches together.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on May 9, 2018 23:08:53 GMT -5
Initially as a joke I was going to say that the only way I'd accept a Becky heel turn is if Sami glued his had to her head like in the mmc.
Then I was thinking about it more and the thing is, if she turns heel, she probably turns heel on Charlotte. The problem with this is that if Sting turns on Flair the universe might implode. STING DOES NOT TURN ON RIC! RIC TURNS ON STING UNTIL THE END OF TIME!
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on May 10, 2018 0:03:13 GMT -5
So you disagree that Becky is more over than Naomi? Because I think Becky is more over than Naomi, has a more complete character, and is better in the ring. Boil that down any way you want to I suppose. Becky has held a woman's title once in her WWE career. I don't even understand where your last statements are coming from. I'm fairly sure the people saying "she is underutilized" mean simply that. Can you please explain where fans said a Moolah esque reign wouldn't be enough because as of right now this seems like one of the biggest cases of putting words into someone else's mouth I've ever seen on this forum. Okay, I do disagree for a few reasons to why I claim it's a push: 1- Becky is very over. So is Naomi. Becky has the Horsewomen overness, Naomi has the Total Divas overness, it's a push there. And in addition, this is also where demographics come into play as well: even if Becky is slightly more over, it's counteracted by Naomi being an African-American woman and giving a capable black woman at the top of the division as well. It's a push. 2- Becky has a complete character of "she wears steampunk and is a really nice person." Naomi has a complete character of "She likes dressing in glow in the dark things and is a really nice person." Again, it's a push. 3- Becky is better in the ring. Naomi is no slouch in the ring, but even if Becky is better on paper, Naomi is easier to WORK WITH which counteracts it. Becky Lynch's biggest weakness is that she can't wrestle down to her opponent and tries to make her opponents do the same super-advanced matches and spots that the Horsewomen can do...which makes great matches against women like the Horsewomen, but only makes embarrassingly bad matches against less-talented opponents. By contrast, Naomi isn't as good in the ring, which means she can have watchable matches against lesser talent and wrestle to their talent more. 4- Becky has held a woman's title once in her WWE career. For all intents and purposes, so did Naomi with only one sustained women's title reign (even if it was "technically" two reigns due to injury/booking problems for heel heat to Alexa Bliss...come on.) But the difference: Naomi debuted on WWE television in 2010 with NXT 3. It took Naomi SEVEN YEARS to get that sustained women's title reign. Becky Lynch just got promoted three years ago and won the title in her second year of WWE existence, PLUS unlike Naomi with the 'well, it's technically two title reigns' thing, Becky Lynch got to keep the title during her injury. Becky and Naomi is a push. They're both as deserving as each other, they were both as underutilized as each other, and they both are equally worthy of the Smackdown women's title.
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Post by theironyuppie on May 10, 2018 1:55:08 GMT -5
She is kind of Smackdown's Bayley. She's done a better job at staying over, though.
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oneday
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Post by oneday on May 10, 2018 2:52:48 GMT -5
3- Becky is better in the ring. Naomi is no slouch in the ring, but even if Becky is better on paper, Naomi is easier to WORK WITH which counteracts it. Becky Lynch's biggest weakness is that she can't wrestle down to her opponent and tries to make her opponents do the same super-advanced matches and spots that the Horsewomen can do...which makes great matches against women like the Horsewomen, but only makes embarrassingly bad matches against less-talented opponents. By contrast, Naomi isn't as good in the ring, which means she can have watchable matches against lesser talent and wrestle to their talent more. Weirdly, I've always found Becky boring in the ring and she needs someone with an exciting moveset to make her matches get to that next level. If anything, I think she avoids doing spots in general with talent. Her matches with Alexa during their feud were all very basic wrestling and non eventful spot wise. Even with advanced wrestlers like Natalya/Mickie James (both have followed the same formula for years now for their matches, and don't change it up) she doesn't do spots. I've really only seen Becky do that stuff with Sasha/Charlotte, and those 2 push spots even for the most meaningless of matches. To me, Becky seems like she's fine with keeping it simple and really only steps outside of that when her opponent is the type to push for spots/is comfortable doing them.
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auph10imitated
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Post by auph10imitated on May 10, 2018 7:41:28 GMT -5
Will she go heel on Charlotte soon?
I think if either go heel it needs to be Charlotte, who snaps on Becky for dragging them down, if there's a way to get Charlotte over as a heel again, its to pick on Becky. But please by doing so let Becky get redemption and a title push. You can do this at the tail end of the year before Charlotte moves onto Rousey.
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Post by benstudd on May 10, 2018 14:18:14 GMT -5
They probably should add some sex appeal to her act. Outside of what we see of her on TV, she seems to be a charming person with tons of sex appeal but for whatever reasons, we don't see that on TV. Maybe they want her to stick to her current character-less person whatever.
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Post by sportatorium on May 10, 2018 14:27:38 GMT -5
The crowd still loves her, so not sure she needs to turn. Smackdown needs a babyface to elevate some of the heel women. It isn’t going to be Charlotte or Asuka, so we have Becky and Naomi. Naomi just won the Mania Battle Royal, so she probably shouldn’t be doing jobs right away.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on May 10, 2018 14:34:48 GMT -5
The crowd still loves her, so not sure she needs to turn. Smackdown needs a babyface to elevate some of the heel women. It isn’t going to be Charlotte or Asuka, so we have Becky and Naomi. Naomi just won the Mania Battle Royal, so she probably shouldn’t be doing jobs right away. Instead, Naomi just does shit all and last appeared as fifth wheel in Usos vs LARPers.
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Post by MrElijah on May 10, 2018 16:03:32 GMT -5
Reading this thread, I'm struck by how weird it would be to turn Becky heel; I don't know a ton about her work, but what I've seen of her she comes off as such a natural babyface, I'm not quite sure why anybody would want to mess with that. Makes me think of the old "shades of grey" argument; I think too many people view "shades of grey" booking as "everybody is basically an asshole" (see: Attitude Era), but the true nature of that type of booking should be that everyone on the roster has a character type, and when those characters play off one another sometimes one seems more cheer-worthy than the other, and you kind of roll with it and then figure out once the storyline is winding down where this leaves both characters. A character/personality like Becky feels like someone who shouldn't turn fully heel unless a storyline she's in brings her to a moral event horizon of some kind, where she either has to sell her soul for something because she feels she has no other way of achieving whatever her goal might be. Just casually doing it because "OH NO LOSING STREAK" to set her up for an Asuka feud or something makes the eventual clash feel more empty than it otherwise would, I think, since the clash people want would be both women at their optimum both in terms of the ring work and their characters. This is why I don't want to see a heel turn. I see people say "well, it's working for Sami", but I just think that argument is flawed. Because Sami had those obnoxious qualities as a babyface, and just amplified them as a heel. But Becky just comes off as absolutely, naturally good. Yes, she was heel for a short while, as Sasha's sidekick in NXT, but it wasn't long until she effectively turned face again. Now, with her personality so much more established, I just don't think it would work. For one, I don't think fans would boo her, and two, the only way the WWE would book it would be to make her yet another bitchy heel character. And I don't think she'd be anywhere near as good at that as she is just being herself. It's all the more galling because, the one babyface on Smackdown who absolutely should be a heel is Charlotte. Everything about her gimmick, and her character is just pure heeldom. Aloof, superior athlete with delusions of being the queen of wrestling, and a lineage that descends from the dirtiest player in the game. How is that a babyface? Becky has that Ricky Steamboat quality of you want her to succeed at the top.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2018 16:12:41 GMT -5
So you disagree that Becky is more over than Naomi? Because I think Becky is more over than Naomi, has a more complete character, and is better in the ring. Boil that down any way you want to I suppose. Becky has held a woman's title once in her WWE career. I don't even understand where your last statements are coming from. I'm fairly sure the people saying "she is underutilized" mean simply that. Can you please explain where fans said a Moolah esque reign wouldn't be enough because as of right now this seems like one of the biggest cases of putting words into someone else's mouth I've ever seen on this forum. Okay, I do disagree for a few reasons to why I claim it's a push: 1- Becky is very over. So is Naomi. Becky has the Horsewomen overness, Naomi has the Total Divas overness, it's a push there. And in addition, this is also where demographics come into play as well: even if Becky is slightly more over, it's counteracted by Naomi being an African-American woman and giving a capable black woman at the top of the division as well. It's a push. 2- Becky has a complete character of "she wears steampunk and is a really nice person." Naomi has a complete character of "She likes dressing in glow in the dark things and is a really nice person." Again, it's a push. 3- Becky is better in the ring. Naomi is no slouch in the ring, but even if Becky is better on paper, Naomi is easier to WORK WITH which counteracts it. Becky Lynch's biggest weakness is that she can't wrestle down to her opponent and tries to make her opponents do the same super-advanced matches and spots that the Horsewomen can do...which makes great matches against women like the Horsewomen, but only makes embarrassingly bad matches against less-talented opponents. By contrast, Naomi isn't as good in the ring, which means she can have watchable matches against lesser talent and wrestle to their talent more. 4- Becky has held a woman's title once in her WWE career. For all intents and purposes, so did Naomi with only one sustained women's title reign (even if it was "technically" two reigns due to injury/booking problems for heel heat to Alexa Bliss...come on.) But the difference: Naomi debuted on WWE television in 2010 with NXT 3. It took Naomi SEVEN YEARS to get that sustained women's title reign. Becky Lynch just got promoted three years ago and won the title in her second year of WWE existence, PLUS unlike Naomi with the 'well, it's technically two title reigns' thing, Becky Lynch got to keep the title during her injury. Becky and Naomi is a push. They're both as deserving as each other, they were both as underutilized as each other, and they both are equally worthy of the Smackdown women's title. Ok that's fine those are your opinions and there's nothing wrong with that. Why did you feel the need to attack Lynch fans in your previous post instead of just stating your side like you did with this post? It felt really unnecessary.
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Post by Hit Girl on May 10, 2018 16:15:28 GMT -5
Add her to the Bar. She'd have good chemistry with those two guys.
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pegasuswarrior
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Post by pegasuswarrior on May 10, 2018 16:22:00 GMT -5
With a Charlotte-like God push, in my mind, I have no doubts she would Be getting one of the top 3 to 5 pops on the whole roster. And they shove the word historic down our ear holes. Talk about historic. They have a gold mine in her. And they had one in Baylee Until they all realized they actually hate Sting, Who I could’ve picture Who I could’ve pictured Baylee becoming.
And those two are not even my favorite females on the roster. It just seems so obvious what they have marketability-wise.
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