adamclark52
El Dandy
I'm one with the Force; the Force is with me
Posts: 8,139
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Post by adamclark52 on Oct 18, 2019 1:28:35 GMT -5
I have a feeling that in 1978 one of the people who went on to be a Disney executive today had a bitching Lou Ferrigno Hulk costume for Halloween and went to school and everyone was loving it, until some other kid walked in wearing a Stormtrooper costume and everyone ran over to him instead and wanted to hang with him and this is said executives forty year master plan to get revenge.
Everything is unfolding as he foresaw.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Oct 18, 2019 2:56:27 GMT -5
I really doubt JJ "Mystery Box" Abrams original plan was for Rey's parents to be random nameless nobodies but who knows.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Oct 18, 2019 3:33:58 GMT -5
I really doubt JJ "Mystery Box" Abrams original plan was for Rey's parents to be random nameless nobodies but who knows. Her dad would've been Khan for sure.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 18, 2019 6:48:15 GMT -5
The Lost tv show would tend to lend credence to "No actual plan for mystery" wouldn't it?
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Oct 18, 2019 7:02:50 GMT -5
I really doubt JJ "Mystery Box" Abrams original plan was for Rey's parents to be random nameless nobodies but who knows. Her dad would've been Khan for sure. No he definitely wouldn't have been Khan, JJ would have made that clear in the press stuff before the movie aaaaand he's Khan.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Oct 18, 2019 7:27:04 GMT -5
I really doubt JJ "Mystery Box" Abrams original plan was for Rey's parents to be random nameless nobodies but who knows. In the novelisation Kylo says to Rey at Starkiller "So it is you" which definitely suggests there was something to the mystery In addition to all the "who's the girl" *cut to next scene* bits throughout TFA. Luke's lightsaber calling to her. Luke's mournful look when they meet sure read as recognition in TFA, though it could also read as just knowing he is being pulled back in. I will not be surprised if they ignore TLJ completely and give her a real backstory.
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adamclark52
El Dandy
I'm one with the Force; the Force is with me
Posts: 8,139
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Post by adamclark52 on Oct 18, 2019 7:44:02 GMT -5
not being stuff in an episodic trilogy really would have solved a lot of their problems. Two or three movies could fix this mess. One is only going to make things worse.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 18, 2019 8:39:41 GMT -5
Also consider the source of "your parents are nobody." Kylo said that. He's the bad guy. It's easy as hell to say "he was lying to you."
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Oct 18, 2019 9:19:35 GMT -5
Rey's parents been nobodies is something I like.
It's unexpected, rather than the tired old thing of all the important people in the galaxy are interlinked. You're not related to Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, Anakin, Palpatine or whoever... you're just a nobody.
Although, I do agree, it probably wasn't planned at all to be that way given the hints in the first movie that she's important.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 18, 2019 9:50:32 GMT -5
I liked it in that the Force is accessible to everyone, not some chosen elites. She was able to rise above it on her own not cuz of some blood lineage.
That said, they have an out if they want it since people were pissed
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 18, 2019 9:58:18 GMT -5
Agreed, the idea of "they're nobodies" led in well to the idea of leaving the old Jedi order behind and starting something new, which informed the final shot with the kid using the Force to pull a broom towards himself. That was one of the better choices made in the film, though it would've been stronger if the full ending had, again, really committed to the changes they were pushing for at first.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Oct 18, 2019 10:06:25 GMT -5
The ability to wield the force has never been established as being limited only to certain families (I've always taken it to be a factor that helps, rather like how wizards work in Harry Potter), so I don't have a problem with Rey being a nobody in theory.
I do have a problem with the way the Force works changing completely from all of the prior films. Upon viewing you almost take it for granted that she has a secret origin involving either strong force user lineage or lost memories of trainings, because in the past it was something that had to be honed over many years. It's just become less of a Space Buddhist Monk thing and more of a sudden X-Men superpower thing.
Maybe there is something in the former extended universe like Rey, but that definitely isn't how it worked in the films.
Something in the final film might offer some explanation, but I have a hard time believing it will be satisfactory.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 18, 2019 11:17:14 GMT -5
It hasn't been, but every important story has focused on one bloodline (In the movies, not the ancillary material).
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Oct 18, 2019 12:35:42 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, I liked Rey being some random person. People were mad because it didn't explain how she was a prodigy with the Force. But let's be clear, firstly, beat Kylo Ren (kinda, since the fight is cut short due to the planet exploding) and that can be explained. Rey knows how to fight with her staff. It's not that much of a stretch that she can beat an injured Kylo Ren, who himself is a rookie remember. And I'm sorry but no amount of "bloodline" can explain her pulling the Jedi Mind Trick out of her ass. That was just dumb. They should have just had Finn rescue her since she ends up in the same place as Finn, Han and Chewie anyway.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,294
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Post by Push R Truth on Oct 18, 2019 12:45:48 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, I liked Rey being some random person. People were mad because it didn't explain how she was a prodigy with the Force. But let's be clear, firstly, beat Kylo Ren (kinda, since the fight is cut short due to the planet exploding) and that can be explained. Rey knows how to fight with her staff. It's not that much of a stretch that she can beat an injured Kylo Ren, who himself is a rookie remember. And I'm sorry but no amount of "bloodline" can explain her pulling the Jedi Mind Trick out of her ass. That was just dumb. They should have just had Finn rescue her since she ends up in the same place as Finn, Han and Chewie anyway. Yeah resisting the trick is one thing. A lot of self defense is just instinct. The Force put up a wall. Simple. I think most people would buy that. But the sudden offensive use of the mind trick it was a bit of an asspull. And I say that as a total Star Wars nerd that will be in full costume at the theater 4 hours before it opens this December.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 18, 2019 13:01:31 GMT -5
Rey's inate skills don't really bother me. I'll take that over any midichlorian bollocks any day of the week. Unfortunately it's everything else about her that just makes her a dead loss in terms of character. There's just very little of substance there, despite Daisy's best efforts.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 18, 2019 13:02:38 GMT -5
Eh, I chalk that up to desperation as much as anything. And maybe Daniel Craig Stormtrooper is just an imbecile.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Oct 18, 2019 14:03:09 GMT -5
But let's be clear, firstly, beat Kylo Ren (kinda, since the fight is cut short due to the planet exploding) and that can be explained. Rey knows how to fight with her staff. It's not that much of a stretch that she can beat an injured Kylo Ren, who himself is a rookie remember. Kylo Ren is far from a rookie, and even if he was, he was still a hell of a lot more trained than Rey. and people always bring up the "she knows how to use a staff", but its a cheap cop out to explain bad writing. first, there is a world of difference between using a staff and using a sword. you don't stab with a staff. rewatch the fight and note how many times she tries to run him through. she wasn't fighting like she would staff, she was fighting like she would with a sword, which she wasn't trained to used. and second, the part of the fight the "staff"/injured people always forget: Kylo Ren was beating her until he mentioned the Force. she was running away and getting overpowered, and then he says "blah blah blah the Force", and she closes her eyes and does a Matrix download, and this is the point where suddenly she remembers she knows how to fight (with a staff) and suddenly the injuries Kylo's had the entire battle cause him to go from being at 80% to 8%. it wasn't her knowledge of fighting (with a staff) that allowed her to beat Kylo Ren or his injuries, it was the Force. and as anyone who has seen the previous films can tell you... it's a fun movie, but its glorified fan fiction with the requisite bad writing. and the Rey/Kylo Ren fight, like a lot of Rey's stuff in the movie, was bad writing
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Post by Mr PONYMANIA Mr Jenzie on Oct 18, 2019 14:33:20 GMT -5
rey was part of luke's jedi school after her parents abandoned her, ben knew how powerful she really is and tried to make her join the knights, so luke was the one that took her to jakku in his final act mirroring his own past ..... then dumps that ship and goes to ahch-to in his x wing and sinks it to strand himself in isolation this would make of course PERFECT SENSE
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Post by Cyno on Oct 18, 2019 14:40:10 GMT -5
Apparently, Rey picked up on the Jedi mind trick when she resisted Kylo's own attempt in using it. Take that as you will. Stormtroopers also tend to be weak-willed by design.
But let's be clear, firstly, beat Kylo Ren (kinda, since the fight is cut short due to the planet exploding) and that can be explained. Rey knows how to fight with her staff. It's not that much of a stretch that she can beat an injured Kylo Ren, who himself is a rookie remember. Kylo Ren is far from a rookie, and even if he was, he was still a hell of a lot more trained than Rey. and people always bring up the "she knows how to use a staff", but its a cheap cop out to explain bad writing. first, there is a world of difference between using a staff and using a sword. you don't stab with a staff. rewatch the fight and note how many times she tries to run him through. she wasn't fighting like she would staff, she was fighting like she would with a sword, which she wasn't trained to used. and second, the part of the fight the "staff"/injured people always forget: Kylo Ren was beating her until he mentioned the Force. she was running away and getting overpowered, and then he says "blah blah blah the Force", and she closes her eyes and does a Matrix download, and this is the point where suddenly she remembers she knows how to fight (with a staff) and suddenly the injuries Kylo's had the entire battle cause him to go from being at 80% to 8%. it wasn't her knowledge of fighting (with a staff) that allowed her to beat Kylo Ren or his injuries, it was the Force. and as anyone who has seen the previous films can tell you... it's a fun movie, but its glorified fan fiction with the requisite bad writing. and the Rey/Kylo Ren fight, like a lot of Rey's stuff in the movie, was bad writing
I mean, even Finn was able to hold off an injured Kylo Ren for awhile until Finn's lack of Force sensitivity caught up with him.
And while the Force won't make you an expert duelist (far from it), it allows you heightened reaction times and some precognition. And that's without any formal training whatsoever and going off instincts (see: Anakin being able to be a podracer at the age of 9 without killing himself). Rey's strokes with the lightsaber were awkward and she didn't exactly come off as an expert duelist herself, but Kylo's injury and the planet exploding around them definitely play into the way that fight went, too. And while Kylo Ren isn't exactly a rookie, there was no in-universe proof at the time that he's an expert saber duelist himself either (not sure if there is now, since I haven't read the latest comics about him).
What Kylo Ren has is raw power, but he lacks discipline and focus. That's why his injuries got the better of him compared to how more trained Jedi and Sith would use Force techniques to dull the pain or even heal injuries.
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