|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Nov 6, 2018 13:13:56 GMT -5
Noun: character that exists as bit of an over-powered, overly skilled character most often in fan created ficiton. Is a bit overblown in pop culture as fans will often accuse damned near any character, particularly female character showing any competence of having said traits. Ergo, the label has lost much of its power due to over-application.
Groan-inducing.
|
|
|
Post by Cela on Nov 6, 2018 13:46:37 GMT -5
For me, it's a character who is effortlessly the best at everything they do. This is amplified by all people being obsessed with them, for some reason.
So, recent ones I would say fall under the definition.
Hobbit Legolas - Guy is casually killing everything that touches him without messing up his hair. He somehow was more overpowered than his future self.
Rey - Expert level mechanic, sure. Immediately flies complex junk ship through impossible area... ok. Spontaneously displays force mastery... eh. Beats one of the most powerful force users seen in the movies in a lightsaber battle 3 seconds after picking one up? Bullshit.
Alexa Bliss last year - Owns everyone on the mic, wins all feuds handily, and despite being a wee pixie, physically overpowers everyone. She was beating down Nia Jax for gods sake.
Dr Doom - He's the best scientist, best tactician, best wizard, and can punch a lion to death despite just being a normal guy. He could totally rule the world/universe, but he doesn't want to. And any time he loses. It's a robot.
|
|
agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,308
Member is Online
|
Post by agent817 on Nov 6, 2018 20:13:16 GMT -5
For me, it's a character who is effortlessly the best at everything they do. This is amplified by all people being obsessed with them, for some reason. So, recent ones I would say fall under the definition. Hobbit Legolas - Guy is casually killing everything that touches him without messing up his hair. He somehow was more overpowered than his future self. Rey - Expert level mechanic, sure. Immediately flies complex junk ship through impossible area... ok. Spontaneously displays force mastery... eh. Beats one of the most powerful force users seen in the movies in a lightsaber battle 3 seconds after picking one up? Bullshit. Alexa Bliss last year - Owns everyone on the mic, wins all feuds handily, and despite being a wee pixie, physically overpowers everyone. She was beating down Nia Jax for gods sake. Dr Doom - He's the best scientist, best tactician, best wizard, and can punch a lion to death despite just being a normal guy. He could totally rule the world/universe, but he doesn't want to. And any time he loses. It's a robot. Since you put it this way, I would put Mitch Buchannon from Baywatch down as an example. He always has to be the one to make a save in an episode, he is shown to be an irresistible ladies man, and is good at a lot of things like martial arts or racing. I would recommend watching the "Baywatching" web show.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 22:31:01 GMT -5
I don't use the term anymore. It originally rose up in sci fi communities where young female authors were creating women characters because they were DRASTICALLY underrepresented in them, and they needed to be hyper competent to have a useful role in the story. It's something I used to throw around but with the baggage that comes with it on critical examination I don't anymore.
|
|
|
Post by Red Impact on Nov 6, 2018 23:32:24 GMT -5
The way I've always heard it described is: It's a fanfiction character that is portrayed as having no flaws, or with flaws that are rather meaningless, who is integrally entwined with the main characters lives and possesses qualities equal to or better than those they have no reason to be superior to. These characters tend to take over the story from the other characters, ala Poochie.
The reason I think fanfiction is an important distinction with it is that even if you take some of the more OP'ed "official" characters, they tend to have to be written in such a way that they have obstacles and threats to overcome and people they lose to, whereas I feel the trope applied to fanfics where the character trope was usually never under any real threat that the canon characters were. They may have overzealous or bad writers at times, but truth be told most all of them lose at some point, or at least fail to meet their ultimate objectives, or have significant character flaws that get exploited, which "Mary Sue" characters tend to lack.
Batman fails to purify Gotham, he gets his back broken by Bane and is "killed" by Darkseid. Superman has failed to save people, and his greatest enemy is a mere mortal man who, try as he might, Superman can't put away on his own terms. Goku has fatal flaws that generally allow villains to get the better of him through the story until he either trains more or someone else helps.
The closest "official" character to the trope is probably Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star, but even he gets beat down at times.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Nov 7, 2018 16:04:46 GMT -5
Y'know, after reading this thread I'm ashamed to admit that I just realized the name "Bella Swan" likely came from Bela Lugosi and Swan Lake being the theme music for the 1931 Dracula film.
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Nov 7, 2018 19:01:06 GMT -5
Y'know, after reading this thread I'm ashamed to admit that I just realized the name "Bella Swan" likely came from Bela Lugosi and Swan Lake being the theme music for the 1931 Dracula film. Huh, that would actually be pretty clever on Meyer's part.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 19:05:20 GMT -5
Y'know, after reading this thread I'm ashamed to admit that I just realized the name "Bella Swan" likely came from Bela Lugosi and Swan Lake being the theme music for the 1931 Dracula film. If it's any consolation I only a few weeks ago realized, "To get to the other side," is a suicide joke and not just anti-humor.
|
|
|
Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 7, 2018 19:21:22 GMT -5
Y'know, after reading this thread I'm ashamed to admit that I just realized the name "Bella Swan" likely came from Bela Lugosi and Swan Lake being the theme music for the 1931 Dracula film. If it's any consolation I only a few weeks ago realized, "To get to the other side," is a suicide joke and not just anti-humor. I only learned that within the last few years and it was from this forum.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Pigwell on Nov 7, 2018 19:28:52 GMT -5
If it's any consolation I only a few weeks ago realized, "To get to the other side," is a suicide joke and not just anti-humor. I only learned that within the last few years and it was from this forum. Yeah. Trista pointed that out one day and blew my damn mind.
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Nov 7, 2018 19:33:25 GMT -5
Y'know, after reading this thread I'm ashamed to admit that I just realized the name "Bella Swan" likely came from Bela Lugosi and Swan Lake being the theme music for the 1931 Dracula film. If it's any consolation I only a few weeks ago realized, "To get to the other side," is a suicide joke and not just anti-humor. ... The F***?!
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Nov 7, 2018 22:05:57 GMT -5
If it's any consolation I only a few weeks ago realized, "To get to the other side," is a suicide joke and not just anti-humor. ... The F***?! I just read the Wiki on the joke, and apparently it first appeared in a New York-based magazine as a riddle, not just as anti-humor nor as a suicide joke.
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Nov 8, 2018 9:59:59 GMT -5
I just read the Wiki on the joke, and apparently it first appeared in a New York-based magazine as a riddle, not just as anti-humor nor as a suicide joke. ... Nothing makes sense anymore.
|
|
|
Post by cabbageboy on Nov 8, 2018 10:30:19 GMT -5
I'm not sure I get the idea of Bella Swan as a Mary Sue. I never found her particularly good at anything or even much of a character. I do think one requirement of a Mary Sue/Gary Stu character is inexperience and youth. I'm not sure Seagal would qualify here since his characters are usually veteran agents or cops or whatever and someone that has spent years mastering martial arts. Besides, after a point you know what you're getting with a Seagal movie.
But then there's the case of a more experienced agent character that reeks of Mary Sue. I'd say Ilsa Faust in Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation was a laughably overpowered character capable of beating up entire rooms full of men, or outracing everyone on a motorcycle, etc. I will say that Fallout did reign this in however and she was a more believable character.
|
|
|
Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Nov 8, 2018 10:41:39 GMT -5
It got fixed by better writers later on, but originally, Red Hulk was the dictionary definition of this.
|
|
|
Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Nov 8, 2018 10:48:32 GMT -5
Y'know, after reading this thread I'm ashamed to admit that I just realized the name "Bella Swan" likely came from Bela Lugosi and Swan Lake being the theme music for the 1931 Dracula film. If it's any consolation I only a few weeks ago realized, "To get to the other side," is a suicide joke and not just anti-humor. I seriously thought that the 'little piggy who went to market' went shopping and not that it was killed.
|
|
Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,373
|
Post by Dr. T is an alien on Nov 8, 2018 12:11:19 GMT -5
I don't like either term. If an interesting character that drives the narrative happens to fit either description, then I don't care. I don't care that you don't like Milla Jovavich's character in the Resident Evil movies being "too powerful". I care that after the first movie that they did not bother to make the movies interesting enough to watch (I did watch the second movie once and will give a hard "pass" on watching it or its sequels ever again. The first is still fun though.)
|
|
Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,373
|
Post by Dr. T is an alien on Nov 8, 2018 12:19:08 GMT -5
This is one of those terms that just bypassed me in culture while everyone else had decided it was sexist/examples of it. Obviously I've read it about Rey..and it's a little hard to un-see after you've read some stuff. But it still kinda confuses me. Like, is Harry Potter a "Gary stu"? He does possess a few qualities, but only a few. He would have to do the fusion dance with Hermoine who also possesses a couple of sue traits to combine their individual qualities to make up something more Sue-like. Eh. Harry's "destined one" one status is more of a case Voldemort's hubris, as Trelawney's prophesy flat out states that Voldemort will select the one to defeat him. He selected Harry instead of Neville simply because Harry was more like him (and related to him) and therefore Voldemort thought he was more likely to be a threat. His persecution of Harry is what gave Harry the few tools he actually needed to beat him. Hermoine might have been clever, but she was not more powerful than anyone else. Not only that, she was still a flawed character herself. It was simply a case that the trio (Harry, Hermoine, and Ron) all supplemented each others' weaknesses as needed to get the job done.
|
|
Kyn
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,623
|
Post by Kyn on Nov 8, 2018 12:24:59 GMT -5
I seriously thought that the 'little piggy who went to market' went shopping and not that it was killed. That's still my interpretation and I refuse to believe otherwise.
|
|
chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 85,087
|
Post by chrom on Nov 8, 2018 12:31:17 GMT -5
For me, it's a character who is effortlessly the best at everything they do. This is amplified by all people being obsessed with them, for some reason. So, recent ones I would say fall under the definition. Hobbit Legolas - Guy is casually killing everything that touches him without messing up his hair. He somehow was more overpowered than his future self. Rey - Expert level mechanic, sure. Immediately flies complex junk ship through impossible area... ok. Spontaneously displays force mastery... eh. Beats one of the most powerful force users seen in the movies in a lightsaber battle 3 seconds after picking one up? Bullshit. Alexa Bliss last year - Owns everyone on the mic, wins all feuds handily, and despite being a wee pixie, physically overpowers everyone. She was beating down Nia Jax for gods sake. Dr Doom - He's the best scientist, best tactician, best wizard, and can punch a lion to death despite just being a normal guy. He could totally rule the world/universe, but he doesn't want to. And any time he loses. It's a robot. Oh yeah, heck, even one of Wakanda's deities went and said that the only way that mankind should ever know true peace and prosper was if they submitted to his rule.
There's character shilling and then there's flat out plan ass kissing.
If anything Doom's a twit who has mediocre designs and plans and the only thing he's really better than Reed at which is Magic is only because Mr. Fantastic tries to look at it from a science viewpoint. When he took a crash course and learned magic himself in under a few hours, he surpassed him.
|
|