|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 8, 2019 2:20:35 GMT -5
The Lisa Marie marriage was so obviously a calculated business move by one or both parties they might as well have had a TPS report cover sheet about it. You do realize it was reported that they had an off and on relationship right? After they divorced Lisa Marie would show up at his shows and according to many close sources they were still sexually active. So it wasn't a business move in actuality. You can believe that if ya like. It was absolutely a business move. And how would other people know that they were sexually active? That MTV kiss was not the kiss of people who were having sex. They had negative chemistry.
|
|
riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
|
Post by riseofsetian1981 on Mar 8, 2019 2:39:33 GMT -5
You do realize it was reported that they had an off and on relationship right? After they divorced Lisa Marie would show up at his shows and according to many close sources they were still sexually active. So it wasn't a business move in actuality. You can believe that if ya like. It was absolutely a business move. And how would other people know that they were sexually active? That MTV kiss was not the kiss of people who were having sex. They had negative chemistry. People who were close to MJ and MJ himself. It is documented and recorded evidence that Michael and Lisa had an off and on relationship after they divorced. Lisa Marie herself even said they had sex when they were married. She'd have no reason to continue lying about that after they divorced. You do realize Michael had friends he discussed personal matters with right? There are recordings of Michael talking about their marriage, sex life, and even afterwards. There's a video of Lisa Marie attending one of Michael's shows during the History tour and it was after they divorced.
|
|
|
Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Mar 8, 2019 2:49:46 GMT -5
I'm interested in giving it a watch once it comes out here just to hear what they have to say and see what they have to show; However, I'm coming in having a very hard time taking it seriously considering Wade Robson, one of the two men who made this, when testifying under oath in a previous trial, denied having been abused by Michael Jackson when he had the chance to expose it, then had nothing but praise for the man... until Jackson's estate refused to let him use some of MJ's music in his show, which just so happens to be when Robson supposedly had his epiphany about how he really was molested the whole time. I'm not sure one way or the other whether he fondled the kids but even if he didn't physically touch them there's always been something inherently creepy about his relationships with children. He doesn't really have anyone to blame but himself for people being weirded out by his behaviour. The thing about that, to me, is that fairly obvious that Jackson was... not quite always there, to put it politely, and didn't realize some of the things he did could come across the wrong way or even just seem weird. I also can't help but feel that it's one of those things where had he been a woman, people would have thought it was adorable but because he was a man, it HAS to be perverted. A) Wade Robson's accusations had been thrown out because he lied and changed his story Okay, I may be cynical about these accusations that is just just plain untrue. It was dismissed due to statute of limitation. But there is strong evidence he absolutely groomed and abused them EMOTIONALLY, if not physically. Then abandoned them the moment they hit puberty and that's not really much better. Is there, though? I have yet to see anything based on something more credible than incredibly dodgy conjecture.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 3:24:39 GMT -5
Man, is this guy Michael Jackson's personal lawyer or some shit up here?
|
|
Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,036
|
Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Mar 8, 2019 4:49:41 GMT -5
I honestly have no idea what to make of Michael Jackson. Like, I can easily see him being a manipulative, calculating predator who preyed on children emotionally if not physically, but I can also see him ultimately being a mentally broken man who tried his entire life to reclaim a childhood stolen by his piece of shit father. It's also easy to believe that these two people could exist at the same time. I'm in the same place, none of us will ever have any clue. As for his stuff being pulled, well, so? 1 Simpsons episode out of the hundreds, and his music not being played on the radio, where it'd only be oldies stations, and honestly I can't remember the last time I heard him played anyway. This isn't exactly going to change anyone's life. His work is still out there for anyone who wants it, there are millions of copies of recordings. I don't blame any executive thinking "Yeah, let's be safe and side with the potential victims until we know one way or the other".
|
|
|
Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Mar 8, 2019 5:57:07 GMT -5
I'm not sure one way or the other whether he fondled the kids but even if he didn't physically touch them there's always been something inherently creepy about his relationships with children. He doesn't really have anyone to blame but himself for people being weirded out by his behaviour. The thing about that, to me, is that fairly obvious that Jackson was... not quite always there, to put it politely, and didn't realize some of the things he did could come across the wrong way or even just seem weird. I also can't help but feel that it's one of those things where had he been a woman, people would have thought it was adorable but because he was a man, it HAS to be perverted. I can see where you're coming from here, and I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, but in my opinion that's a load of horse. he's an adult, he knew better. there are plenty of people who had traumatic childhoods who don't do the creepy shenanigans he did. He wasn't always there? fine. but it doesn't excuse it. and I'd also find it creepy if he was a woman.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2019 6:42:11 GMT -5
I hope he’s innocent as much as any other Michael fan, but some of the defense in this thread and in other places is very weak to say the least.
At best he’s a very misguided man who made some terrible, terrible decisions. At worst he was a living, breathing monster. I genuinely want to believe that he never molested anyone, but I really don’t feel comfortable in saying that for certain. There’s a lot in this story that terrifies me.
|
|
Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
Posts: 5,478
|
Post by Nr1Humanoid on Mar 8, 2019 7:06:38 GMT -5
As has been said, children coming to his aid is no surprise. Any child molester with half a brain will not molest every kid he comes into contact with. It pays to have someone sing your praises should you ever come under scrutiny for criminal behaviour.
As for jo child porn, maybe with his access to boys he never found it necessary. Do pedophiles even need actual sexual acts and nudity to get themselves going? Or maybe he never kept whatever he watched? Hell, he could afford to buy a used computer every day of his life.
It's my understading that many pedophiles molest children in very subtle ways, which the child will simply dismiss as old fashioned affection.
I'd be fascinated to hear actual pedophiles give their opinion of Michael Jackson.
As for Jackson's women, many child molesters are successfully married.
And if his current accusers are only after his money, why not go for them when he was around? The Jordy case shows he was more than willing to pay.
|
|
Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,902
Member is Online
|
Post by Sephiroth on Mar 8, 2019 8:16:43 GMT -5
I hope he’s innocent as much as any other Michael fan, but some of the defense in this thread and in other places is very weak to say the least. At best he’s a very misguided man who made some terrible, terrible decisions. At worst he was a living, breathing monster. I genuinely want to believe that he never molested anyone, but I really don’t feel comfortable in saying that for certain. There’s a lot in this story that terrifies me. Of all things, an episode of Law and Order SVU thst spoofed his case summed it all too well. In a particular scene where the parody character is aghast at the accusations and proclaims “There is nothing purer than loving a child!” And Stabeler replies “That’s the problem; you didn’t think you were hurting them, you thought you were just loving them.”
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 8, 2019 9:00:26 GMT -5
You can believe that if ya like. It was absolutely a business move. And how would other people know that they were sexually active? That MTV kiss was not the kiss of people who were having sex. They had negative chemistry. People who were close to MJ and MJ himself. It is documented and recorded evidence that Michael and Lisa had an off and on relationship after they divorced. Lisa Marie herself even said they had sex when they were married. She'd have no reason to continue lying about that after they divorced. You do realize Michael had friends he discussed personal matters with right? There are recordings of Michael talking about their marriage, sex life, and even afterwards. There's a video of Lisa Marie attending one of Michael's shows during the History tour and it was after they divorced. You're welcome to believe it. Of course she'd have reason to lie. Her admitting "yep, P.R. stunt" makes her look bad. Recordings of them talking about it aren't recordings of them doing it. Recordings of her going to one of his shows is just that. Not gonna go 'round and round with it with ya, not trying to convince you. Just for me I don't believe two people who look like they should be performing with Rock-a-Fire Explosion at Chuck E. Cheese when they kiss are a) in love or b) having sex. You can. I don't
|
|
|
Post by Limity (BLM) on Mar 8, 2019 9:09:12 GMT -5
People who were close to MJ and MJ himself. It is documented and recorded evidence that Michael and Lisa had an off and on relationship after they divorced. Lisa Marie herself even said they had sex when they were married. She'd have no reason to continue lying about that after they divorced. You do realize Michael had friends he discussed personal matters with right? There are recordings of Michael talking about their marriage, sex life, and even afterwards. There's a video of Lisa Marie attending one of Michael's shows during the History tour and it was after they divorced. You're welcome to believe it. Of course she'd have reason to lie. Her admitting "yep, P.R. stunt" makes her look bad. Recordings of them talking about it aren't recordings of them doing it. Recordings of her going to one of his shows is just that. Not gonna go 'round and round with it with ya, not trying to convince you. Just for me I don't believe two people who look like they should be performing with Rock-a-Fire Explosion at Chuck E. Cheese when they kiss are a) in love or b) having sex. You can. I don't Holy shit, that was awkward just watching Lisa Marie. Are we sure she hadn't been kidnapped and held against her will at that point?
|
|
Paul
Vegeta
Posts: 9,243
|
Post by Paul on Mar 8, 2019 10:04:53 GMT -5
People who were close to MJ and MJ himself. It is documented and recorded evidence that Michael and Lisa had an off and on relationship after they divorced. Lisa Marie herself even said they had sex when they were married. She'd have no reason to continue lying about that after they divorced. You do realize Michael had friends he discussed personal matters with right? There are recordings of Michael talking about their marriage, sex life, and even afterwards. There's a video of Lisa Marie attending one of Michael's shows during the History tour and it was after they divorced. You're welcome to believe it. Of course she'd have reason to lie. Her admitting "yep, P.R. stunt" makes her look bad. Recordings of them talking about it aren't recordings of them doing it. Recordings of her going to one of his shows is just that. Not gonna go 'round and round with it with ya, not trying to convince you. Just for me I don't believe two people who look like they should be performing with Rock-a-Fire Explosion at Chuck E. Cheese when they kiss are a) in love or b) having sex. You can. I don't He looks uncomfortable and nervous and she looks like she'd rather be anywhere else.
|
|
|
Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Mar 8, 2019 10:34:40 GMT -5
If nothing else, I always felt MJ was at the least a very emotionally damaged and clearly troubled person, with a myriad of mental health issues through his life. Given his upbringing, I'm not shocked. And I say that as someone who grew up worshipping the man and his music.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 8, 2019 10:38:08 GMT -5
If nothing else, I always felt MJ was at the least a very emotionally damaged and clearly troubled person, with a myriad of mental health issues through his life. Given his upbringing, I'm not shocked. And I say that as someone who grew up worshipping the man and his music. He was no doubt f***ed up mentally in some way. Joe Jackson f***ed his son up
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 8, 2019 10:38:37 GMT -5
Man, is this guy Michael Jackson's personal lawyer or some shit up here? As I said earlier it's a stark contrast from the R Kelly thread which has a lot more evidence than this
|
|
SmashTV
Dennis Stamp
Big Money, Big Prizes, I Love It!
The Excellence of Allocation
Posts: 4,484
|
Post by SmashTV on Mar 8, 2019 13:01:50 GMT -5
I don’t buy into the whole “these famous kids said they were never touched by Michael Jackson so he’s not guilty” line either. Let’s be honest here. A famous child star is going to get more attention and believability if they were to come forward with an allegation. Little Timmy from Bumfugg, Iowa... not so much. A random unknown kid is going to be far more prone to being star struck or afraid of saying anything about Jackson. It doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. I’m sure Jackson was well aware of that too. I remember watching the Katt Williams standup The Pimp Chronicles. He did a whole routine where he talked about having things like silk pillows or peach wine at his house not because he wanted them but because women liked them and he was trying to attract women. He said if he wanted to attract little boys he’d fill his house with video games, animals... and maybe put up an amusement park. It was a funny bit but he had a good point. I don’t know what Jackson’s deal was but it looked creepy to me. The two women he supposedly had relations with were most likely paid off. No other woman has ever come forward claiming to have been with him. I can still remember the hush that fell over the crowd when Brooke Shields took the stage at his memorial service. She started to cry and you could sense the crowd feeling vindicated because here was a woman Jackson dated crying for him. Then she let everyone know they were only friends. That nothing ever happened between them. The crowd fell silent. Brooke Shields is a beautiful woman and was extremely attractive back then. Guess he wasn’t interested, even though it appeared they were “dating.” All those weird public relations moves with Lisa Marie were creepy too. Definitely felt like a financial arrangement. I don’t think she’s looking for work now so whatever. Creepy. I remember when he married Lisa Marie my dad saying “He’s after Elvis’ songs now” after he bought the Beatles song publishing. At the risk of going slightly off topic, I remember when they got married Jerry Lawler said on commentary that he communicated with Elvis through a medium. When he ‘made contact’ the first thing he said was ‘Hey Elvis, you’ll NEVER guess who your daughter got married to!’
|
|
mattperiolat
King Koopa
Thank you, Brodie... for everything.
Posts: 11,445
|
Post by mattperiolat on Mar 9, 2019 2:10:22 GMT -5
I really REALLY hate talking about this.
I have skin in the game. I’m a fan of Michael’s, as anyone who knows me will attest. I’m also a victim of child abuse, non-sexual, but abuse nonetheless. I’m not qualified to know mindset or mentality of either party, but I know all too well how much it hurts when trust is broken by someone who says they love you.
I’ve never believed Michael was capable of abusing the kids simply because I’ve been of the opinion Michael never mentally attached sexual urges to affection for anyone. He just never mentally grew up and made the connections. Now, could he have abused? We may not know for certain, but if he was this horrific predator, why only two accusers in decades of contact with kids?
I have my own opinions on credibility, but I can only sadly shake my head for the two accusers. Michael is still dead, he can’t hurt them anymore if he did and even confessing all cannot really give closure or peace, if that’s what they want. It just gives them a spotlight for a time. Hope they do something good with it. Hopefully better than Tom Sneddon, who I still reserve venom for.
I’m disappointed with the Simpsons producers, but it’s their choice. I disagree very strongly with it and am glad I have Stark Raving Dad on DVD and from FXX airings. I just wonder why they didn’t pull the episode during the first accusation. Or the second. Or after replaying after his death. Or in the ten years since if they knew something we didn’t.
As for me, it hurts. Ten years is coming in June and I can’t even remember him in public now without being accused of supporting something bad or being bad myself. I want to believe innocence, but how can you when there are already monsters out there who have done far worse? And the world believes the worst because maybe we have all gotten to a point where even the best of men hide devils inside.
It just... hurts.
|
|
|
Post by Wolf Hawkfield no1 NZ poster on Mar 9, 2019 2:50:57 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned I don't believe any of the rumors that he was a kiddie fidder.
But that being said there is no doubt that he was still a massively f***ed up man who needed help.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 9, 2019 3:58:42 GMT -5
At the very least he was inappropriate with kids. Grown men don't hang around children they have no familial or personal ties to and have sleepovers and all this, even if there wasn't something overtly sinister there. Just from a boundaries/development standpoint it's off.
|
|
Welfare Willis
Crow T. Robot
Pornomancer 555-BONE FDIC Bonsured
Game Center CX Kacho on!
Posts: 44,259
|
Post by Welfare Willis on Mar 9, 2019 4:39:26 GMT -5
You know guys, about the Simpsons pulling the Michael Jackson episode... I get it, but I really wish they didn't do it. Not because I'm a huge fan of Michael Jackson, but because of my stance on media being pulled because of changed values in society. I guess this is similar to WWE not referencing Chris Benoit, but the producers can actually pull it because he was in only one episode. I'm not saying celebrate it, but keep it in circulation with the understanding of the time and conditions in which it occured.
|
|