Is Triple H and NXT The Problem?

[romanstylesiii]

WWE's product has always been character based. Storylines and a pay-off have always come first, and match quality second.

NXT is not built to create larger than life personalities. It creates guys to be VERY GOOD in ring wrestlers, who happen to have really cool entrances, but many of them lack any sort of character.

Guys like Seth, Big E, and Roman only became good promos after years of being within the WWE

[eJm]

The problem is both sides need to establish what the intention is and what structure works and stick with it.

Now, NXT is supposed to be a way for HHH to show he can run a “company” with its own roster and live events which get more crowd investment then the main roster does. Grand.

The problem comes from when they go up to the main roster and most of them don’t seem to get the backing, support or help transitioning because they’re so used to how it works in the performance center and such. But you can’t change the flow of NXT because it gets people in and gets good buzz for the company. It’s the Community problem of It gets good buzz and it’s worth keeping but doesn’t do as well as other stuff WWE has.

They just need to figure out what it’s all for. If this is supposed to be the minor leagues, treat it as such. Make it a bigger deal when someone goes up because the GMs or whoever runs the brands wants them for their roster. And more importantly, redevelop the shows to suit the main roster standard.

On the flip side, if NXT is supposed to be the future of WWE, try and start the transition now. Modify creative so it gets the kind of stories that have NXT its buzz but on a bigger scale. Force Vince to watch NXT to understand the characters coming up to make that transition easier for the audience you want to be watching the main roster or those already watching WWE.

Right now, we have one side doing stuff people care about and another that doesn’t know what’s happening hour to hour never mind week to week.

The whole system needs an overhaul one way or another but at the end of the day, Vince is the boss so the entire problem is his fault. The end.

[chazraps]

Those three were entirely different characters in NXT/FCW than at their main roster debuts. They were solid promos in those characters in NXT/FCW when they were being developed.

No, I don't think NXT is the problem.

[This Player Hating Mothman]

If the people who write the show don't give wrestlers characters or promo time then what does developmental even have to do with things? And when the main roster is willing to just rewrite someone's whole act on the call-up, what purpose could developmental serve in creating characters? You don't just sit in promo class and become good at acting and public speaking, that sort of thing takes time and experience to develop.

[KobashiChop]

NXT just concluded a storyline that effectively began at the original Takeover: Chicago in May 2017 where they turned the protagonist heel in the middle, turned him face again and the lead villain got injured at the start of it and wasn't physically involved until January 2018. They faced each other one on one three times in the feuds entirety.


NXT is not the problem when it comes to storytelling.

The TV shows that apparently get finalised FOUR MINUTES BEFORE AIR are the problem with storytelling.

[Deleted]

I wouldn’t say it’s a problem but guys and girls show way too much of their gimmick/wrestling ability in NXT and end up peaking while they’re there. At this point I don’t even think there’s any realistic way of dialing it back because NXT probably makes them lots of money.

[King Devitt]

No, Vince and WWE are the problem.

There's no reason people can't take their momentum from NXT to the main roster, but "reverse Midas touch" Vince has to turn everything to shit somehow.

I've said it before, but it's fascinating how bad he is at what he does.

[The Legendary Ring Troll {BLM}]

NXT created Bray Wyatt, Tyler Breeze, Adam Rose, No Way Jose, and many more “characters.” In fact, NXT was creating characters when a lot of the main roster were still considered bland “dudes in tights.”

[Sicho100]

Apr 26, 2019 22:07:32 GMT -5 KobashiChop said:

NXT just concluded a storyline that effectively began at the original Takeover: Chicago in May 2017 where they turned the protagonist heel in the middle, turned him face again and the lead villain got injured at the start of it and wasn't physically involved until January 2018. They faced each other one on one three times in the feuds entirety.


NXT is not the problem when it comes to storytelling.

The TV shows that apparently get finalised FOUR MINUTES BEFORE AIR are the problem with storytelling.

Yeah, it's the main roster that doesn't have characters and stories; the reason NXT is so well-regarded is because it DOES. That's why Takeovers are so anticipated, and why they are so well-received after they happen. Because they build characters and stories that fans can become attached to and then have good, meaningful matches at Takeovers that either supercharges those stories or pays them off. They don't merely have technically proficient matches, they first make people care about those matches.

On the main roster, on the other hand, there is a meaningless cookie-cutter 20 minute promo every week that forces their top wrestlers, no matter who it is, to sound exactly like Michael Cole, using the exact same verbiage with the exact same cadence to give an extended recap of last week's ~HEAT~, no matter if they are Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, or AJ Styles. Which will then be followed by a bunch of meaningless, if technically proficient, cookie-cutter wrestling matches that have the exact same structure, with almost all of the same moves, with the exact same dive-to-the-outside-to-cut-to-the-commercial-followed-by-the-exact-same-chinlock-when-they-return-from-commercial, and with the exact same bullshit finish that doesn't advance any semblance of a story but is just a failed attempt to try to not make someone look bad, no matter if that match is Cesaro vs Rey Mysterio or Drew McIntyre vs Seth Rollins. And then they book the same show the following week.

It's why top stars on NXT so frequently flounder on the main roster. The wrestlers don't suddenly become bad in-ring workers, there is just no reason for fans to be engaged. When the wrestlers are given competent booking, they get over. When they are booked by the worst booker in wrestling history, they do not.

[fw91]

imo? sort of?
It should be well learned by now that NXT and the Main rosters are different entities with different formulas to success. The small intimate setting and smark crowds give NXT a super indy feel. Their formula for success is the indy style in ring action, but at the same time it should be telegraphed and come as no surprise when an NXT star gets called up and fizzles out on the main roster. Whole other ball game. It's more character based and who connects well with the crowd. It make sense that the NXT call ups who haven't been busts are the Shield, Joe, and Owens, and dare I say Elias. All other call ups don't really connect with the wider audience. Zayn is the only one who I think they really dropped the ball on. The people who complain about current main roster WWE are the, for a lack of a better term, smarks, who can't reconcile the fundamental differences between the shows. I'm willing to bet that the casual audience would rather watch The Miz, Reigns, and New Day schtick than the Undipsuted Era, and its not Vince being out of touch. I think business and ratings are on the decline simply because wrestling ain't hot shit anymore and is fading from the mainstream.

[fw91]

Apr 26, 2019 23:09:34 GMT -5 Sicho100 said:

Apr 26, 2019 22:07:32 GMT -5 KobashiChop said:

NXT just concluded a storyline that effectively began at the original Takeover: Chicago in May 2017 where they turned the protagonist heel in the middle, turned him face again and the lead villain got injured at the start of it and wasn't physically involved until January 2018. They faced each other one on one three times in the feuds entirety.


NXT is not the problem when it comes to storytelling.

The TV shows that apparently get finalised FOUR MINUTES BEFORE AIR are the problem with storytelling.

Yeah, it's the main roster that doesn't have characters and stories; the reason NXT is so well-regarded is because it DOES. That's why Takeovers are so anticipated, and why they are so well-received after they happen. Because they build characters and stories that fans can become attached to and then have good, meaningful matches at Takeovers that either supercharges those stories or pays them off. They don't merely have technically proficient matches, they first make people care about those matches.

On the main roster, on the other hand, there is a meaningless cookie-cutter 20 minute promo every week that forces their top wrestlers, no matter who it is, to sound exactly like Michael Cole, using the exact same verbiage with the exact same cadence to give an extended recap of last week's ~HEAT~, no matter if they are Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, or AJ Styles. Which will then be followed by a bunch of meaningless, if technically proficient, cookie-cutter wrestling matches that have the exact same structure, with almost all of the same moves, with the exact same dive-to-the-outside-to-cut-to-the-commercial-followed-by-the-exact-same-chinlock-when-they-return-from-commercial, and with the exact same bullshit finish that doesn't advance any semblance of a story but is just a failed attempt to try to not make someone look bad, no matter if that match is Cesaro vs Rey Mysterio or Drew McIntyre vs Seth Rollins. And then they book the same show the following week.

It's why top stars on NXT so frequently flounder on the main roster. The wrestlers don't suddenly become bad in-ring workers, there is just no reason for fans to be engaged. When the wrestlers are given competent booking, they get over. When they are booked by the worst booker in wrestling history, they do not.

But the differences have to do with structure and design. NXT Takeovers are anticicpated because there are months in between shows. On the weekly programming, its only an hour and they don't put every one on each show. WWE HAS to fill programming with the same names over and over again. Yes they can keep people away from each other, But there are network demands.

[Sicho100]

Apr 26, 2019 23:25:51 GMT -5 fw91 said:

Apr 26, 2019 23:09:34 GMT -5 Sicho100 said:

Yeah, it's the main roster that doesn't have characters and stories; the reason NXT is so well-regarded is because it DOES. That's why Takeovers are so anticipated, and why they are so well-received after they happen. Because they build characters and stories that fans can become attached to and then have good, meaningful matches at Takeovers that either supercharges those stories or pays them off. They don't merely have technically proficient matches, they first make people care about those matches.

On the main roster, on the other hand, there is a meaningless cookie-cutter 20 minute promo every week that forces their top wrestlers, no matter who it is, to sound exactly like Michael Cole, using the exact same verbiage with the exact same cadence to give an extended recap of last week's ~HEAT~, no matter if they are Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, or AJ Styles. Which will then be followed by a bunch of meaningless, if technically proficient, cookie-cutter wrestling matches that have the exact same structure, with almost all of the same moves, with the exact same dive-to-the-outside-to-cut-to-the-commercial-followed-by-the-exact-same-chinlock-when-they-return-from-commercial, and with the exact same bullshit finish that doesn't advance any semblance of a story but is just a failed attempt to try to not make someone look bad, no matter if that match is Cesaro vs Rey Mysterio or Drew McIntyre vs Seth Rollins. And then they book the same show the following week.

It's why top stars on NXT so frequently flounder on the main roster. The wrestlers don't suddenly become bad in-ring workers, there is just no reason for fans to be engaged. When the wrestlers are given competent booking, they get over. When they are booked by the worst booker in wrestling history, they do not.

But the differences have to do with structure and design. NXT Takeovers are anticicpated because there are months in between shows. On the weekly programming, its only an hour and they don't put every one on each show. WWE HAS to fill programming with the same names over and over again. Yes they can keep people away from each other, But there are network demands.

Yes, it has to do with structure and design, but that isn't immutable. NXT is structured so that it gets people and stories over. The main roster is shit being thrown against a wall by a dumbass who doesn't understand basic storytelling and has had so much smoke blown up his ass for thirty years that he thinks his shit doesn't stink.

[Toilet Paper Roll]

NXT has a UFC vibe to it. A main event match is big because it's a main event match. You really feel these guys are the best In the world competing to see who deserves that title, and generally the matches bear that out.

The people competing aren't 3+ time world champions fighting for the hundredth time. The matches feel important because you know you may never see these two guys wrestle again.

[111111]

NXT has never really recovered fro the the loss of dusty. When he was there it was an interesting brand with some great characters. After thst it just became an overly long match indie wankfest without what it made it good to begin with.

Then they debut nxt people on the main roster without bothering to run some vignettes or introducing them properly.


They don't realise in the grand scheme of things no one watches NXT and need to stop with these cold debuts.

[Bo Rida]

Apr 26, 2019 23:34:40 GMT -5 Toilet Paper Roll said:

NXT has a UFC vibe to it. A main event match is big because it's a main event match. You really feel these guys are the best In the world competing to see who deserves that title, and generally the matches bear that out.

The people competing aren't 3+ time world champions fighting for the hundredth time. The matches feel important because you know you may never see these two guys wrestle again.

Just to add to that it also means more because not everyone is successful, even some of the bigger names like Becky, Bray, Enzo and Cass etc. You lose and you might not get another chance.

Anyway in general Nxt has had some great story telling. They're getting back to their best after losing their way for a while and the gimmicks are returning.

They get a solid base and that's what has always happened in wrestling, most don't kick the character into high gear until later. Austin was stunning for years before he became stone cold. You'd never have thought Bryan would be one of the best in the mic either. Foley was always compelling but got super over with a sock, you can't teach that.


The Big E example is interesting. He showed his goofy weirdo side a fair bit in Nxt but that stopped on the main roster until New Day, another example of not playing to strengths.

[Cyno]

It's not NXT's fault that Raw is usually garbage. Only thing it's guilty of is making it look even worse by comparison.

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Apr 27, 2019 1:46:36 GMT -5 Cyno said:

It's not NXT's fault that Raw is usually garbage. Only thing it's guilty of is making it look even worse by comparison.

Yeah this is an odd premise to me.

There's a product that is generally great, and one that's generally trash... and it's the fault of the good product?

[Yacht Persona]

NXT is how a wrestling program should be run--the fact that it's one hour a week, with a handful of PPVs each year keeps both talent and match-ups fresh. When I did have the network, I never grew tired of anything NXT presented. The main roster oversaturates everything to death. That's the biggest problem to me.

[Prince Petty]

NXT knows how to create characters - Velveteen Dream, Aleister Black, Andrade Cien Almas.

NXT knows how to build storylines - Gargano vs Ciampa, Sami Zayn's title chase and then feud with Kevin Owens.

NXT knows how to make wrestlers look like legit stars, out of the gate - Matt Riddle, Shinsuke Nakamura.

NXT knows how to present every show as a big deal, and how to sell matches as important.

All of these are things that the WWE appears to have forgotten. I really don't see how this is a fault with NXT.

Yes, part of their sustained run of excellence is due to limited exposure, and the ability to plan things well in advance. But the planning is something the main roster could easily do, if competent people were in places to make sensible decisions.

[eJm]

And this also needs to be mentioned again; another main reason for NXT’s existence is to be a foundation on why people buy the Network. To see these newer talents debut in the WWE and people follow them to the main roster and PPVs. The main reason the performance center makes a loss is because if they find a big enough star, the costs would be worth it (also it’s literally impossible to make a profit from a place that develops talent outside of that. Sports know that all too well. Some are shadier about it and take from the government more than others but that’s another discussion).

If those talents debut on the main roster and they suck, it makes NXT look bad as a developmental process, thus doesn’t make people who wouldn’t usually watch do so, thus makes people disconnect from the product as a whole and cancel subscriptions.

We weren’t that long ago from having 1.9m Network subscribers. Now WWE has around 1.5m. It can’t be that much of a coincidence.