fw91
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Post by fw91 on Aug 20, 2019 23:25:32 GMT -5
Lord. I used to defend Charlotte because she’s super talented and I thought people treated her too harshly, but there are few things in wrestling I want to see less than Charlotte in another World Title feud/with the belt again. She’s like Batista back in the day. Always lurking and ready to get a PPV title match. And that’s really the root issue here. Flair is legitimately one of the best women talents they have in-ring wise, in the prime of her career, but they’ve given her so much already it leaves her in this weird area where it’s like hardly anyone wants her at the level she SHOULD be at, but she’s too good to be lower than it, if that makes sense. 100% agree.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 20, 2019 23:25:44 GMT -5
I'd include Becky in the Charlotte/Alexa group. I’d like to see the argument as to how she isn’t. Just on TV win/loss records this year alone, it almost borders on wilful ignorance... Bliss: 11-9-0 Flair: 10-8-1 Lynch: 23-3-0 I'm going to need this for an eventual OP thread if Sasha takes an L to Becky
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Post by theironyuppie on Aug 20, 2019 23:27:58 GMT -5
I’d like to see the argument as to how she isn’t. Just on TV win/loss records this year alone, it almost borders on wilful ignorance... Bliss: 11-9-0 Flair: 10-8-1 Lynch: 23-3-0 It is more about constant presence and big wins than just numbers.All three definitely have a monopoly on those right now. Also I will never forgive how they treated Asuka. Both times she faced Charlotte was all downhill for nothing not related just venting. The interesting thing though is that she wasn’t even on TV for five weeks, missed two PPVs, had a non-title match at Summerslam and fans got angry anyway. The upside of it is that it helps the faces she works with, it’s no coincidence Bayley’s best crowd reactions this year have all been against Charlotte. The other thing about this feud is they’ve been doing it on house shows for months at this point, it was always going to happen eventually. As for Asuka, I would have liked her to get a Mania title match too, but Vince wanted to do Becky 2 Belts and Asuka got sacrificed so that could happen. (All evidence suggests that title match was only decided on hours before the show, as they’d been advertising a four-way No.1 contender match until then.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 23:58:55 GMT -5
Lord. I used to defend Charlotte because she’s super talented and I thought people treated her too harshly, but there are few things in wrestling I want to see less than Charlotte in another World Title feud/with the belt again. She’s like Batista back in the day. Always lurking and ready to get a PPV title match. And that’s really the root issue here. Flair is legitimately one of the best women talents they have in-ring wise, in the prime of her career, but they’ve given her so much already it leaves her in this weird area where it’s like hardly anyone wants her at the level she SHOULD be at, but she’s too good to be lower than it, if that makes sense. It’s the problem with building a strong character in the women’s division. There isn’t really an undercard, and they don’t dedicate time to booking non-title women’s feuds with regular talent. So when Charlotte isn’t champion she’s either not on TV or fighting for the belt, but she’s so established at this point that they can’t affors to keep her off TV. It was the same kind of problem they ended up getting into with AJ Lee in 2014, but to a much larger degree. At the moment she feels a bit... inevitable. Like even when she’s not champion you know it’s only a matter of time before she gets it again. She’s getting treated like a male face of the company would be treated, which seems out of place when there are only a couple of people that even feel close to her level in the company’s eyes. Even with my comparison to Batista back in the day, you still had people like Cena, Edge, Rey, Orton, Triple H, Undertaker, etc. that felt like a level playing field. Charlotte doesn’t have a whole gallery of rivals. She’s got Becky and Alexa, and that’s basically it.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Aug 21, 2019 0:06:46 GMT -5
I’d like to see the argument as to how she isn’t. Just on TV win/loss records this year alone, it almost borders on wilful ignorance... Bliss: 11-9-0 Flair: 10-8-1 Lynch: 23-3-0 I'm going off of crowd reactions, to be honest. No one has even remotely approached Becky's level of popularity with viewers. Meanwhile you have Alexa who is lukewarm at the absolute best, and same goes with Charlotte. But any time someone even approaches their current level of popularity, they get kneecapped. Meanwhile every other woman on the roster is wasting away. And we all know Charlotte is likely regaining the title at Clash of Champions. Leading into a Survivor Series feud between her and Becky or Sasha. Meanwhile you have women like Kairi, Asuka, Ember, Naomi, Liv, etc all wasting away. I am not a huge Alexa dude but she does get a pop most of the times I watch. She even got a pretty loud reaction when she said she was going to compete at the Rumble.
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Dat Dude
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Post by Dat Dude on Aug 21, 2019 9:36:06 GMT -5
Meh. I would’ve rather they’d have Ember become a bitter heel from her loss and extend their program.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Aug 21, 2019 9:58:12 GMT -5
Meh. I would’ve rather they’d have Ember become a bitter heel from her loss and extend their program. That is an awful thing about WWE their feuds eithrr are constant rematches or a one title shot deal. Learn how to make your feuds take longer time.
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Post by eJm on Aug 21, 2019 10:01:58 GMT -5
Meh. I would’ve rather they’d have Ember become a bitter heel from her loss and extend their program. That is an awful thing about WWE their feuds eithrr are constant rematches or a one title shot deal. Learn how to make your feuds take longer time. Or if not, make what happens in said feuds lead to the next story. Have, I don't know, Kairi Sane see if she's ok but she snaps and beats the shit out of her because she's fed up of being undervalued. Then you have a set of decent matches for Sane and Moon and if Moon gets over enough, you can slot her back in the title match with a different story to it.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Aug 21, 2019 10:29:09 GMT -5
I would have loved for this Bayley reign to be like her NXT one. She had plenty of challengers and kept giving other girls a chance. Alexa, Eva Marie, Nia, and Carmella all had their first shots against Bayley.
For Smackdown, I'd much rather see Bayley against Sonya, Mandy, Kairi, Asuka, one of the IIconics, or almost anyone who isn't Charlotte.
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Post by hbkid718 on Aug 21, 2019 11:31:18 GMT -5
Even though they got rid of Automatic Re-Matches, technically, Flair deserves a shot at Bayley. Bayley cashed in her MITB Contract on Charlotte, who just beat Becky for the Title, and she never got a shot at regaining the title.
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Post by sunnytaker on Aug 21, 2019 11:52:38 GMT -5
well on the plus side for team bayley- the PPV is in charlotte, NC and you know how the wwe likes to have the hometown hero (as opposed to every location's favorite son baron corbin of course) lose because, why make the crowd happy? vince already has their money. so that could be a bad sign for the person they named the city after.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Aug 21, 2019 12:34:33 GMT -5
Even though they got rid of Automatic Re-Matches, technically, Flair deserves a shot at Bayley. Bayley cashed in her MITB Contract on Charlotte, who just beat Becky for the Title, and she never got a shot at regaining the title. She also won it by defeating becky after she had a match already and got attacked and Becky didn't get a rematch Technically she doesn't deserve because of it.neither by the "rules" or by merits of said match. But she did beat Bayley clean before Bayley cashed.
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Post by Cyno on Aug 21, 2019 13:25:43 GMT -5
I mean she has a big win over Trish so it makes sense to be the next challenger Yeah she got a big win over someone who hasn't been an active wrestler in years. That totally earns a title shot versus building up someone else. And I like Charlotte. But c'mon it's enough already with her constantly being in the title picture. Build up the division outside of 3 people.
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Chainsaw
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Post by Chainsaw on Aug 21, 2019 13:27:50 GMT -5
This is nothing, just wait until they trade the title back and forth at every PPV for the next year.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 21, 2019 13:45:14 GMT -5
I can't really say Charlotte doesn't deserve a title shot by every metric.
Big win leading up to this. Multiple time champion. Is the one Bayley beat for the title, and Charlotte beat Bayley clean in a match prior.
It's shit booking if she doesn't get a title shot, but it also has that level of fatigue surrounding it because WWE can't juggle multiple women feuds effectively. So, a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't.
If Bayley wins, though, can the clock finally be reset on the Charlotte resentment? I guess Asuka beating her would also aid in that.
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Shark
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Post by Shark on Aug 21, 2019 15:14:15 GMT -5
Lord. I used to defend Charlotte because she’s super talented and I thought people treated her too harshly, but there are few things in wrestling I want to see less than Charlotte in another World Title feud/with the belt again. She’s like Batista back in the day. Always lurking and ready to get a PPV title match. And that’s really the root issue here. Flair is legitimately one of the best women talents they have in-ring wise, in the prime of her career, but they’ve given her so much already it leaves her in this weird area where it’s like hardly anyone wants her at the level she SHOULD be at, but she’s too good to be lower than it, if that makes sense. I just ran the numbers to get a sense of how strongly pushed Charlotte is in regards to title victories. She is on the cusp of her 10th women's title reign in WWE. I decided to look at the 2 other guys in WWE who have 10+ world title reigns, Cena and Orton, and decided to see how some numbers came out. John Cena first won the WWE title in April 2005. Including the WWE and World titles, he won his 10th world title in May of 2011. So that's a 6 year gap and remember that Cena had been on the roster about 3 years before he won his first world title. Randy Orton first won the World title in August 2004 And then won his 10th world title in August 2013 a 9 year gap and he'd been on the roster about 2 and a half years before his first world title. Charlotte won her first women's title in September 2015 and will likely win #10 in September 2019. She debuted on the main roster in the summer of 2015 so she's almost at 10 reigns after just 4 years on the main roster. That is just insane. To further compare, Alexa Bliss is at 5 reigns after 3 years on the main roster.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 15:21:43 GMT -5
Charlotte should be feuding with Liv Morgan.
Do that classic time limit draw shit.
"You couldn't last five minutes with me"
And liv does
"Okay ten minutes!"
And so on. Have them work house shows. Let liv develop on TV and give Charlotte something to do
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 15:27:01 GMT -5
If Bayley wins, though, can the clock finally be reset on the Charlotte resentment? I guess Asuka beating her would also aid in that. For me personally Charlotte would have to be out of the title picture for at least a year for me to even begin approaching her matches with enthusiasm again. Win/loss record aside, her unending presence in the title scene in an albatross around the neck of every other wrestler; it's the same exact problem Cena, Batista, and HHH had in years prior.
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deezy
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Post by deezy on Aug 21, 2019 16:10:48 GMT -5
That and WWE just refuses to build up anyone who isn't named Charlotte either. The entire division seems to revolve around her, Alexa, and I guess Becky. And its problematic to say the least. It's not that other women can't be stars. It's just that WWE either refuses to build up said women or they just kneecap anyone who threatens to overtake Charlotte or Alexa in terms of popularity. I'd include Becky in the Charlotte/Alexa group. Yes indeed. I'd even say the womens division is built around Becky more than Charlotte and Alexa at this point.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Aug 21, 2019 16:34:51 GMT -5
If Bayley wins, though, can the clock finally be reset on the Charlotte resentment? I guess Asuka beating her would also aid in that. For me personally Charlotte would have to be out of the title picture for at least a year for me to even begin approaching her matches with enthusiasm again. Win/loss record aside, her unending presence in the title scene in an albatross around the neck of every other wrestler; it's the same exact problem Cena, Batista, and HHH had in years prior. The issue there is there’s no “women’s midcard” to drop down to where she’d still get featured enough to showcase her talent without copping all the shit for holding a belt. It’s literally only champions, their contenders and people used to heat up the people in the first two categories. If you’re not any of those, you’re just off of TV altogether. Like it was mentioned earlier in the thread, Flair was just off of TV for over a month with no storyline explanation because they didn’t have the spare time for a non-title angle with her until before SummerSlam (which then made the actual title match with Bayley and Moon seem like the filler), but didn’t want her in the heater category.
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