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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2019 3:20:17 GMT -5
Other thing to consider with Bret is the fact stroke can really mess up your emotional response to any stimuli, so if he speaks in the heat of the moment it could well be a more emotional response than he would otherwise give.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 15, 2019 3:24:52 GMT -5
I want to say Billy Jack Haynes would be one, but I don't know if I can count Billy Jack. Bitter is maybe less the right word than disturbed, delusional, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2019 3:32:06 GMT -5
I want to say Billy Jack Haynes would be one, but I don't know if I can count Billy Jack. Bitter is maybe less the right word than disturbed, delusional, etc. Before the Benoit conspiracy thing he did a shoot where, he clearly had major issues but he spoke in a very considered, balanced way about the business and his contribution to it, so yeah his mental health is the overarching thing here.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Sept 15, 2019 6:33:28 GMT -5
Bret Hart, though I wouldn't blame him for being bitter. I’ve spent time with Bret on a couple of occasions and shot the shit with him and what I got from him is that he’s not actually bitter, that’s just how he comes across. He speaks in a very matter-of-fact way and I don’t think he realizes how it can be perceived. It’s very much a sort of “Well, this is what happened” and he’s blunt and he might not speak glowingly about a situation or a person, but I don’t think he’s angry at all. If anything, I think he’s really come to terms with a lot of grievances he might have held in the past. I’ve only met him once but I was standing in line for a while and got to see him interact with a lot of fans while I waited. He seemed very reserved which I could see some people getting that misconstrued for him being aloof or bitter. Bret is a guy that’s seen it all in the wrestling business. The good and the bad. Not much is going to inspire a big reaction out of him. Telling him you met him after a show or ran into him somewhere isn’t going to make him jog his memory to see if he remembers you. He gets that all the time. He’s not that outgoing. He’s friendly just not overly so. I think some fans expect more of a song and dance routine when it comes to meeting wrestlers but everyone is different. You can get that from a Jacques Rougeau or a Koko B. Ware. I’ve seen them sing their theme songs on multiple occasions to fans in line at conventions. Bret’s not going to work for the attention. He’s just hanging out. That doesn't mean he’s bitter though.
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Post by octopus on Sept 15, 2019 7:57:29 GMT -5
Can anyone blame Bret for being bitter? Montreal, Owen's death, the aftermath of that which broke up his family, lawsuits, horribly used in WCW, Goldberg kick etc
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Post by jason1980s on Sept 15, 2019 8:36:53 GMT -5
Billy Graham isn't so much bitter as he is loyal or disloyal to anyone not paying him money. I had a good experience meeting him during his 2000s WWE contract time and his wife is a living saint for her kind heartedness and putting up with someone as crazy as Billy can be. But I think he knows how lucky he is to have her.
At this point Billy will probably live the rest of his life with the anger in his mind body and soul and heart he has for WWE (and even fans not paying for his go fund me type of deals) because WWE wont have him back anymore. He has burned his bridge beyond repair and at his age and condition they couldn't really use him. And if they did, like they do some old timers doing silly/embarrassing behind the scenes angles, it would just look bad on their part since he's put them down for about 10 years now on social media.
I wish Billy had been given a life time WWE contract, not just for his own health and well being because I like him. I like the way he talks and can tell a story and I appreciate his history in wrestling, even his 1980s comeback attempt. I enjoyed his PPV/special event commentary. If he were able to travel with the company he could do a lot of good for the backstage in teaching guys how to come up with better gimmicks, storylines, or working on their mic skills along with speaking against substance abuse. I don't see him as bitter though I can see why people would say that. I think he knows how well he had it in wrestling while he could go but if WWE isn't paying him, he's speaking out against them.
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Nr1Humanoid
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Sept 15, 2019 9:02:33 GMT -5
Like has been stated more delicately, I think Ole just does not give a f***.
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Post by Guacamole Anderson on Sept 15, 2019 11:28:16 GMT -5
"Cranky, stubborn and opinionated" are how I'd classify Ole and Cornette.
"Bitter" is when you feel sorry for yourself. Neither of those guys come off that way to me.
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Post by Cyno on Sept 15, 2019 11:35:32 GMT -5
Yeah, I think a lot of the way Bret can come off recently in terms of how he says things can go back to the fallout from his stroke. Finally making peace with Vince McMahon and Shawn Michaels over the screwjob also helped him out a lot.
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Post by jason1980s on Sept 15, 2019 13:48:31 GMT -5
I think Jim Cornette is all show. I met him a few times and most in very low key settings and is very quiet and mild manner and isn't "on" for a camera.
I wrote in another Bret Hart thread that I think he's still not totally over Montreal and lot of that has to with feelings of being betrayed and after 12+ years of being a pretty selfless performer for the company and other wrestlers.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 15, 2019 14:00:14 GMT -5
I think Jim Cornette is all show. I met him a few times and most in very low key settings and is very quiet and mild manner and isn't "on" for a camera. I wrote in another Bret Hart thread that I think he's still not totally over Montreal and lot of that has to with feelings of being betrayed and after 12+ years of being a pretty selfless performer for the company and other wrestlers. In regards to Jim, I think half of it is a show but once again that is more so a problem with how he shit talks people and then tries to act like it is all fun and games In regards to Bret, he does have a part to play in Montreal and while he may not be fully over it, I think he doesn't dwell on it anymore
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Dang!
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Post by Dang! on Sept 15, 2019 23:21:12 GMT -5
Thinking of Corny, how about Vince Russo? It very clearly eats at him he's never going to be invited back in the fold after his antics at WCW, disrupting TNA and trying to get a job at Fox behind the WWE's back and the people at AEW just plain don't want to know. He wants back in but the door has been slammed shut, nailed closed and the building caved in over his head. Nuke that building just to be sure! No one should ever call, sign or even speak to Russo ever again. He is cancer to every wrestling promotion. Everyone in the business should shun him and treat him as unfriendly as legally possible.
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Sept 16, 2019 2:08:06 GMT -5
Ole Anderson. Not sure why since it seems like he retired with quite a bit of money. It's not like a Billy Jack Haynes situation where he is bitter because he's broke and wrestling left him with nothing. For whatever reason this has been the word for decades about Ole. Even watching his shoot interview from years ago he comes off like a grumpy old man that screams and hollers about everything. Yeah it feels like it's got to be Ole; the man was so abrasive and shitty that he ended up locked out of his own legacy. He's the horseman history actively tries to push off to the side and forget because it's easier to marginalize him than to try and work with him. Barry Windham was so much better of a fit anyway that they don't lose much with the omission of Ole. Ole always felt like the Horsemen's dad, which was an unnecessary role since J.J. Dillon was already filling it.
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sfvega
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Post by sfvega on Sept 16, 2019 4:29:59 GMT -5
Can anyone blame Bret for being bitter? Montreal, Owen's death, the aftermath of that which broke up his family, lawsuits, horribly used in WCW, Goldberg kick etc Seriously. Bret grew up in wrestling and all he ever wanted to be was a wrestler (other than a cowboy, lol.) And he did that, had a great rise to being the top champion in the top company with the biggest contract and eventually being in a white hot stable with his family and friends in the peak time of the industry's history. And then in a span of 6 years: -Pillman dies -He was on the losing end of a feud with the biggest asshole of the business in the 90's -Betrayed by his boss and probably mentor to an extent -Power played by Bischoff and Hogan -Lost his baby brother in the craziest wrestling accident ever -His family gets torn apart in the ensuing lawsuit -Gets a bad concussion that effectively ends his career -The company he works for folds -His Mom dies -Davey Boy dies -He files for divorce -Hours after filing for divorce he has a stroke -His dad dies I feel like him and Kevin Von Erich aren't really bitter (or you could say they are and have every right to be.) I feel like they just had lives that heavily involved or even revolved around wrestling that gave them stunning highs before taking almost literally everything away from them. I think it is normal coping to take time away from or have negative opinions of that. It's human. But they ultimately came to be in healthy places, with lots of trauma stemming from mostly one industry.
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Sept 16, 2019 6:30:27 GMT -5
I’ve met Vader a few times. Unfortunately he was pretty miserable every time. I brought him some stuff to sign from Japan that was kind of rare. Whenever I’ve done something like that I usually get a very impressed or appreciative reaction. It can lead to some pretty cool conversations too. Vader seemed annoyed because he went on to say, “I never got paid for this! I never got paid for this either! They never paid me for this! They were supposed to pay me for this!” So much bitterness. I got off easy though. At one convention there was a short guy that looked like Bill Apter, it wasn’t him but looked a lot like him, that had apparently paid Vader to sign a big pile of 8x10s. Vader got through about a third of the pile when the guy came over and said something to him. Maybe to sign faster or something. Idk. All of the sudden Vader threw the pile at him and said, “Get the f*** outta here!” The guy said he paid for everything to be signed and Vader moved towards him saying, “You got enough from me! Get the f***outta here!” The guy quickly grabbed what he could of the photos and ran away. I was always a big fan of Vader but he was not a happy guy. Certainly not the times I’d seen him around. That sucks man, when I met Vader he was a giant teddy bear and he was super happy I was marking out over his NJPW helmet. He even laughed when I asked him to fake punch me for a photo op. Was this pre or post his heart diagnosis?? Also the most bitter men in wrestling is Ole and Cornette. I havent heard Ole say positive things about people in any of his shoot interviews. He also was a bigot and a racist according to Teddy Long. Cornette is just an angry human being and has anger issues. If anyone but Cornette was saying some of the vitrol he said there would be more outrage on the internet.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Sept 16, 2019 6:48:44 GMT -5
I’ve met Vader a few times. Unfortunately he was pretty miserable every time. I brought him some stuff to sign from Japan that was kind of rare. Whenever I’ve done something like that I usually get a very impressed or appreciative reaction. It can lead to some pretty cool conversations too. Vader seemed annoyed because he went on to say, “I never got paid for this! I never got paid for this either! They never paid me for this! They were supposed to pay me for this!” So much bitterness. I got off easy though. At one convention there was a short guy that looked like Bill Apter, it wasn’t him but looked a lot like him, that had apparently paid Vader to sign a big pile of 8x10s. Vader got through about a third of the pile when the guy came over and said something to him. Maybe to sign faster or something. Idk. All of the sudden Vader threw the pile at him and said, “Get the f*** outta here!” The guy said he paid for everything to be signed and Vader moved towards him saying, “You got enough from me! Get the f***outta here!” The guy quickly grabbed what he could of the photos and ran away. I was always a big fan of Vader but he was not a happy guy. Certainly not the times I’d seen him around. That sucks man, when I met Vader he was a giant teddy bear and he was super happy I was marking out over his NJPW helmet. He even laughed when I asked him to fake punch me for a photo op. Was this pre or post his heart diagnosis?? Also the most bitter men in wrestling is Ole and Cornette. I havent heard Ole say positive things about people in any of his shoot interviews. He also was a bigot and a racist according to Teddy Long. Cornette is just an angry human being and has anger issues. If anyone but Cornette was saying some of the vitrol he said there would be more outrage on the internet. The times I met Vader were well before his health issues. I’ve met Cornette several times and he’s legitimately one of the nicest people I’ve ever met in the wrestling business. I’ve seen him interact with dozens of fans and he’s very friendly with all of them. I’ve never met Ole so I don’t have much of an opinion there but I’ve read his book and thought it was interesting.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Sept 16, 2019 6:51:06 GMT -5
Yeh I dont thinm Cornette is that bitter. Even when he is it is more " That guy I hate is being more successfull than me". He also seemed bittee about ROH fans.Basicallt he is bitter when he is proven wrong but overall seems to keep a healthy relation.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Sept 16, 2019 7:08:56 GMT -5
Yeh I dont thinm Cornette is that bitter. Even when he is it is more " That guy I hate is being more successfull than me". He also seemed bittee about ROH fans.Basicallt he is bitter when he is proven wrong but overall seems to keep a healthy relation. Well, they did blame him for things he didn't book and continue to ignore that he saved the company. They were losing millions prior to his time there, flying in guys from Japan is nice, as is hiring the biggest Indy names, but they were bleeding out as audiences weren't paying to see it. If he didn't organise the Sinclair deal, they would be archive material on the WWE network now. He then had to deal with Sinclair execs learning on the job and making promises they didn't deliver, and yes while he wasn't blameless, as a booker he's 30 years behind the times, I can understand him being a little irked by ROH fans acting like he nearly killed the company.
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Post by RowdyRobbyPiper on Sept 16, 2019 7:22:28 GMT -5
Yeh I dont thinm Cornette is that bitter. Even when he is it is more " That guy I hate is being more successfull than me". He also seemed bittee about ROH fans.Basicallt he is bitter when he is proven wrong but overall seems to keep a healthy relation. Well, they did blame him for things he didn't book and continue to ignore that he saved the company. They were losing millions prior to his time there, flying in guys from Japan is nice, as is hiring the biggest Indy names, but they were bleeding out as audiences weren't paying to see it. If he didn't organise the Sinclair deal, they would be archive material on the WWE network now. He then had to deal with Sinclair execs learning on the job and making promises they didn't deliver, and yes while he wasn't blameless, as a booker he's 30 years behind the times, I can understand him being a little irked by ROH fans acting like he nearly killed the company.I would also add ROH talent to that sentence as well (shooting daggers at you, Kevin Owens and Sami Zahn).
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Sept 16, 2019 8:07:46 GMT -5
Yeh I dont thinm Cornette is that bitter. Even when he is it is more " That guy I hate is being more successfull than me". He also seemed bittee about ROH fans.Basicallt he is bitter when he is proven wrong but overall seems to keep a healthy relation. Well, they did blame him for things he didn't book and continue to ignore that he saved the company. They were losing millions prior to his time there, flying in guys from Japan is nice, as is hiring the biggest Indy names, but they were bleeding out as audiences weren't paying to see it. If he didn't organise the Sinclair deal, they would be archive material on the WWE network now. He then had to deal with Sinclair execs learning on the job and making promises they didn't deliver, and yes while he wasn't blameless, as a booker he's 30 years behind the times, I can understand him being a little irked by ROH fans acting like he nearly killed the company. From what I got from researching(since I didn't watcha t the time). There was those things alreayd bad but that the on-screen product didn't help. That Cornette pushes people that he liked but didn't get over and he kept pushing while not pushing people fan liked,etc.Basically it was already bad but the screen product was still as bad if not worse. One person I actually expected to be bitter is Virgil but he seems fine just doing his thing.
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