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Post by Mister Pigwell on Sept 16, 2019 16:25:19 GMT -5
She literally spent months feuding with a rookie in Lacey Evans and had crowds invested in the matches. Who else in the division could have done that? Lacey has wrestled Charlotte, Bayley, Natalya and others this year in matches that got zero reaction. When she was up against Becky was the only time people cared about her. And right now Sasha is in a better position than she has been in 3 years and is probably going to be the next champion. Then there's Asuka, who went from doing absolutely nothing for 8 months last year then winning the title from Becky in December and making her tap out in January. Literally all these people got to their hottest when feuding with Becky. It's not her fault how they're booked elsewhere. And you've just answered my question, that's not elevating your opponent to that next level, that's only elevating them when they're against you ala "Big Match John" feuds. An example is Kofi/Bryan. With Kofi's storyline they elevated Kofi from the midcard to main event position and he's kept that level the entire way through. Had Kofi faced Bryan once, had the crowd love it, and then stayed at that same previous midcard level then yeah that would be what Becky's doing with her opponents. There's a difference between elevating superstars to the next level and only elevating them in the matches where they're against the champion. You're describing Lacey getting the crowd into her Becky match but given she's not elevated nobody cares what else she does after that match, it's not sustained like it's supposed to. That's the point I'm making here. Bryan, Michaels, Styles, they don't have that problem because they really elevate their opponents but Becky does because she's not doing that. She's out wrecking them due to her booking.
It's the Cena effect where people care about the opponent when they face Cena but when they're not facing them the crowd doesn't care all because Cena doesn't elevate the opponent. Don't tell me that Cena elevated his opponents because he's doing the same thing Becky's doing.
That's just not elevating your opponent and had Becky been a better champion and better at elevating her opponents rather than trashing them this wouldn't happen. There's a reason why the Charlotte feud kept elevating Becky and that's due to what Charlotte and Becky put into it. To that point, yeah there's a lack of sustained leveled up girls right now. That's why I was going on about an official heel faction finally, it'll open a lot of places for other female wrestlers to raise up.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 16, 2019 16:28:43 GMT -5
I said the match has no real barring. Timing does matter, once again I presented all of this in the OP. Sasha Banks was left laying in the ring and yes it is all for a “bigger picture” but for over a year she has dominated and we should be at a point where she shouldn’t be standing y’all over each adversity. I could have made this thread a few months ago but with over a year worth of time, there is specific moments I can go back to, to back up my argument That’s not even accurate though, around the time of Royal Rumble people were flipping out because she wasn’t being booked strong enough and Charlotte was the one supposedly “OP” in the women’s division. We can check the paper trail, the receipts are there. Y’all just like making these OP threads. How is she not elevating opponents? Lacey was in a PPV main event because of association with Becky, not her fault Pacey was nowhere near ready for the main roster full time. She elevated Sasha, Sasha is back as a legit contender, before this feud against Becky she had not been at that level in a long time. Facts and history are just ignored because these OP threads get a lot of replies. Y’all who? You can disagree all you want but don’t try to be a smart ass and come at the merit of my thread. There has literally been two OP threads with facts to have a discussion on, on whether you disagree or not To try to play off like y’all just talking shit to take is incorrect
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 16:36:00 GMT -5
And you've just answered my question, that's not elevating your opponent to that next level, that's only elevating them when they're against you ala "Big Match John" feuds. An example is Kofi/Bryan. With Kofi's storyline they elevated Kofi from the midcard to main event position and he's kept that level the entire way through. Had Kofi faced Bryan once, had the crowd love it, and then stayed at that same previous midcard level then yeah that would be what Becky's doing with her opponents. There's a difference between elevating superstars to the next level and only elevating them in the matches where they're against the champion. You're describing Lacey getting the crowd into her Becky match but given she's not elevated nobody cares what else she does after that match, it's not sustained like it's supposed to. That's the point I'm making here. Bryan, Michaels, Styles, they don't have that problem because they really elevate their opponents but Becky does because she's not doing that. She's out wrecking them due to her booking.
It's the Cena effect where people care about the opponent when they face Cena but when they're not facing them the crowd doesn't care all because Cena doesn't elevate the opponent. Don't tell me that Cena elevated his opponents because he's doing the same thing Becky's doing.
That's just not elevating your opponent and had Becky been a better champion and better at elevating her opponents rather than trashing them this wouldn't happen. There's a reason why the Charlotte feud kept elevating Becky and that's due to what Charlotte and Becky put into it. To that point, yeah there's a lack of sustained leveled up girls right now. That's why I was going on about an official heel faction finally, it'll open a lot of places for other female wrestlers to raise up. They need to do something with them because as it is right now I'm not sure what's going to happen. Actually I think I do know. Becky will lose via some shenanigans and lose the rematch through shenanigans, head to SDL and eventually face Charlotte for the SDL title at WM. I'm not sure how she'll lose the belt but I wouldn't be surprised if it's through some Authority/GM shenanigans given that seems to be the thing that stops her from winning these days.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 16:40:36 GMT -5
Sasha has to win the title at hell in a cell no questions asked for the sake of her heel turn.
Becky will have had a solid 6 month reign
But this is WWE and they like to strike when the iron is ice cold and frozen in a block of ice so Becky will likely win thus pretty much damaging Sashas heel turn and Sasha wont win the title untill sometime next year when her heel turn has run cold.
And at the draft they will probably swap bayley and Becky in the draft just to get Becky away from Sasha and also because all the SD promos heavly feature Becky.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 16:44:19 GMT -5
She literally spent months feuding with a rookie in Lacey Evans and had crowds invested in the matches. Who else in the division could have done that? Lacey has wrestled Charlotte, Bayley, Natalya and others this year in matches that got zero reaction. When she was up against Becky was the only time people cared about her. And right now Sasha is in a better position than she has been in 3 years and is probably going to be the next champion. Then there's Asuka, who went from doing absolutely nothing for 8 months last year then winning the title from Becky in December and making her tap out in January. Literally all these people got to their hottest when feuding with Becky. It's not her fault how they're booked elsewhere. And you've just answered my question, that's not elevating your opponent to that next level, that's only elevating them when they're against you ala "Big Match John" feuds. An example is Kofi/Bryan. With Kofi's storyline they elevated Kofi from the midcard to main event position and he's kept that level the entire way through. Had Kofi faced Bryan once, had the crowd love it, and then stayed at that same previous midcard level then yeah that would be what Becky's doing with her opponents. There's a difference between elevating superstars to the next level and only elevating them in the matches where they're against the champion. You're describing Lacey getting the crowd into her Becky match but given she's not elevated nobody cares what else she does after that match, it's not sustained like it's supposed to. That's the point I'm making here. Bryan, Michaels, Styles, they don't have that problem because they really elevate their opponents but Becky does because she's not doing that. She's out wrecking them due to her booking.
It's the Cena effect where people care about the opponent when they face Cena but when they're not facing them the crowd doesn't care all because Cena doesn't elevate the opponent. Don't tell me that Cena elevated his opponents because he's doing the same thing Becky's doing.
That's just not elevating your opponent and had Becky been a better champion and better at elevating her opponents rather than trashing them this wouldn't happen. There's a reason why the Charlotte feud kept elevating Becky and that's due to what Charlotte and Becky put into it. If Kofi went back to the midcard that wouldn't have been Bryan's fault though, like you're insinuating. It would be because WWE chose to keep Kofi in the midcard. If they wanted him in the main event he would be. You used Styles as an example but during his title reign Jinder, Owens, Nakamura, Rusev and Joe all ended feuds with him in a worse position than when they entered. And again, that's not even Styles fault. He was the champion. When he beats a challenger it's up to the company to keep the person relevant when they move on, not him. Becky's only had 3 feuds in the past year outside of the Wrestlemania main event: Asuka - She went into this feud after her aura being killed dead due to the double whammy of tapping out to Charlotte and then being outsmarted by Carmella. She spent 6 months doing nothing and barely being on TV then she won a battle royal to get a title shot. She won the title at TLC then beat Becky at Royal Rumble. She was in a MUCH better position when the feud ended than she was when the feud started. Unless Becky has booking powers she's not to blame for Asuka now being an afterthought. Becky put in the work to have her taken seriously again and she still would be if she was booked even decently in the past few months Lacey - She was literally an NXT jobber who had never wrestled on the main roster and by the end of the feud she was a recognizable name in the division. She got a damn PPV main event out of it. Again, she ended the feud better than she started it. Sasha - She's been a midcard/tag wrestler for at least 2 years and now she's back in the main event. Again, in a way higher position now than when she was before. The very definition of elevation. Edit: I forgot Natalya. Another person who went into the feud with Becky having done nothing of note in forever and got a major PPV match then moved into a mini-feud with Sasha. Way better than what she was doing before.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 17:12:12 GMT -5
You're misunderstanding me. I'm not talking about if Kofi won and became a main eventer, I'm talking about his overall level as a wrestler, the crowd reception, himself as a whole. This isn't about where your position is on the card. You're making it seem like I'm saying "well since Bryan elevated Kofi he's in the main event now so that shows Bryan elevates Kofi" when that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying is Kofi himself had a shift from the midcarder Kofi to main event Kofi with the crowd and how he's perceived. You could hear it with the cheers, you could hear it in how he was putting so much of himself into his programming whether it was him winning or losing. Kofi's lost and got beaten multiple times before he became champion but the feud and Bryan were so great at what was going on that it didn't matter and Kofi kept being elevated. Regardless of the shenanigans on SDL, regardless of Bryan's comments, regardless of the losses and switches, regardless it kept elevating Kofi to that next level even when he got those Ls. These others just take those Ls and the balloon deflates because the momentum isn't sustained. Styles is another example because, like I've been saying, Styles not only gave these stars some of their best matches but even when they lost against Styles they came out better than prior. Jinder for example, he had his best match ever with Styles and then was inserted in the US Title picture where everyone said he felt like he belonged and understood things there more than the main event picture. Jinder's style sort of changed and he just sort of "clicked", all because of the Styles feud. Owens, I've been saying that KO's been bad ever since that Universal Title run so Styles didn't do anything there. Rusev is the perfect example of someone who was that dude when he was going against Styles and looked better in that match and coming out of that match due to that feud but that's been Rusev's MO since he's always been able to make anything great. I can't contribute that to him. Joe, I was the guy who started the "Joe is a bitch" thing and yet I was saying he was doing some of his best work with Styles and even after that match anytime Joe had an opportunity whether it was against a champion, Reigns, KOTR, no matter what Joe's had momentum and didn't look somehow worse. Crowd still behind him, still cutting dope promos, Joe's got that one. Now to everyone else, - Asuka: The Becky win didn't help her as she was featured less on the program, didn't get any increase in cheers and she had no challengers. She was seen as more of a joke given she actually lost matches at that point and given who was getting wins on her. She was far more highlighted and cheered prior to becoming champion. I mean she literally was seen less on tv and people forgot she was champion. No, she was not elevated with the Becky win. - Lacey: You mean the same Lacey who no one cared about after the match? You literally just said that no one cared about her other than the Becky match, you're proving my point that the Becky feud didn't help her keep momentum. - Sasha: There's a reason this thread was made. Becky's OP. You saying that Becky elevates her opponents is the same as you saying that Cena during his run elevated everyone he went against and beat no matter who they were because they're both doing the same thing from a booking perspective. You honestly can't believe that. You know the response Cena got with him winning all the time and being Super Cena even though the fans liked those matches.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 16, 2019 17:12:50 GMT -5
And you've just answered my question, that's not elevating your opponent to that next level, that's only elevating them when they're against you ala "Big Match John" feuds. An example is Kofi/Bryan. With Kofi's storyline they elevated Kofi from the midcard to main event position and he's kept that level the entire way through. Had Kofi faced Bryan once, had the crowd love it, and then stayed at that same previous midcard level then yeah that would be what Becky's doing with her opponents. There's a difference between elevating superstars to the next level and only elevating them in the matches where they're against the champion. You're describing Lacey getting the crowd into her Becky match but given she's not elevated nobody cares what else she does after that match, it's not sustained like it's supposed to. That's the point I'm making here. Bryan, Michaels, Styles, they don't have that problem because they really elevate their opponents but Becky does because she's not doing that. She's out wrecking them due to her booking.
It's the Cena effect where people care about the opponent when they face Cena but when they're not facing them the crowd doesn't care all because Cena doesn't elevate the opponent. Don't tell me that Cena elevated his opponents because he's doing the same thing Becky's doing.
That's just not elevating your opponent and had Becky been a better champion and better at elevating her opponents rather than trashing them this wouldn't happen. There's a reason why the Charlotte feud kept elevating Becky and that's due to what Charlotte and Becky put into it. Asuka - She went into this feud after her aura being killed dead due to the double whammy of tapping out to Charlotte and then being outsmarted by Carmella. She spent 6 months doing nothing and barely being on TV then she won a battle royal to get a title shot. She won the title at TLC then beat Becky at Royal Rumble. She was in a MUCH better position when the feud ended than she was when the feud started. Unless Becky has booking powers she's not to blame for Asuka now being an afterthought. Becky put in the work to have her taken seriously again and she still would be if she was booked even decently in the past few months Lacey - She was literally an NXT jobber who had never wrestled on the main roster and by the end of the feud she was a recognizable name in the division. She got a damn PPV main event out of it. Again, she ended the feud better than she started it. Sasha - She's been a midcard/tag wrestler for at least 2 years and now she's back in the main event. Again, in a way higher position now than when she was before. The very definition of elevation. Edit: I forgot Natalya. Another person who went into the feud with Becky having done nothing of note in forever and got a major PPV match then moved into a mini-feud with Sasha. Way better than what she was doing before. Asuka - That whole RR match was way more about Becky losing than it ever was about Asuka winning. All the focus was still on Becky and she only dropped the title because she was winning the rumble. Becky tried to shit talk Asuka on Twitter through this whole feud which Asuka sandbagged. Asuka sat on the sidelines as champ while Becky got prominent mic time on both shows week after week. Hell, can even argue Asuka was still sacrificed for Becky to make her moment even bigger when she had to drop the title to Charlotte to make the challenge for Becky even bigger Lacey - Becky NEVER took Lacey seriously. The feud actually got off to a good start with Lacey just running up to Becky and not being afraid. Not only did Becky not even sell her finish, through the next few weeks whenever they did brawl she was never on her ass. She constantly belittled Lacey on the mic and sold her a non threat Natalya - She didn't even matter. That's like saying Ziggler mattered when he got a title shot against Ambrose. Getting a token title shot at Summerslam is not really a win. Add on Becky once again not selling Natty as a threat despite her being a former champ as recently as of 2017 Sasha - Her prominence has nothing to do with Becky. She is the only one near Becky level and the one everyone expects to take her out if she came back. Once again all Becky has done is shit talk her and not sell her as a threat. None of the previous three did a damn thing coming out of the feud and while that is part WWE fault, for a performer she doesn't make me want to see them face her again. She's elevated people before, one in Alexa Bliss which helped launch her career but as The Man she has not and she's been the man for a year. The Charlotte matches do count
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 17:25:03 GMT -5
Basically this is how a superstar's elevated when a hotter superstar feuds with them. Let's use I don't know, Wyatt and shit, Slater.
- The Fiend feuds with Slater - Slater gets hot in the feud due to the connection between the Funhouse and his kids - The Fiend beats Slater - The Fiend goes on to feud with someone else - Slater's hotness from the previous feud carries over into the next feud due to how it was and the match afterwards - Slater's elevated regardless if he'll lose his next feud or if he wins it
That's what's supposed to happen and that's what the intention is when they have these feuds.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 16, 2019 17:33:01 GMT -5
Styles is another example because, like I've been saying, Styles not only gave these stars some of their best matches but even when they lost against Styles they came out better than prior. Jinder for example, he had his best match ever with Styles and then was inserted in the US Title picture where everyone said he felt like he belonged and understood things there more than the main event picture. Jinder's style sort of changed and he just sort of "clicked", all because of the Styles feud. Owens, I've been saying that KO's been bad ever since that Universal Title run so Styles didn't do anything there. Rusev is the perfect example of someone who was that dude when he was going against Styles and looked better in that match and coming out of that match due to that feud but that's been Rusev's MO since he's always been able to make anything great. I can't contribute that to him. Joe, I was the guy who started the "Joe is a bitch" thing and yet I was saying he was doing some of his best work with Styles and even after that match anytime Joe had an opportunity whether it was against a champion, Reigns, KOTR, no matter what Joe's had momentum and didn't look somehow worse. Crowd still behind him, still cutting dope promos, Joe's got that one. The results of the AJ feuds were the biggest problem. People were upset about the stuff with AJ because his opponents were built up good enough to dethrone him. The consistent thing with AJ in all his feuds is his weakness being his anger. Each opponent exploited that and many times he was left laying in the ring whether it was from a Shinsuke dick shot or Joe making him go night night However, when AJ won he won decisively. The heel came up to short to the babyface and their is nothing wrong with that when the heels or the opponent in general are put in a position where they looked like a threat and wasn't just fodder
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Sept 16, 2019 17:41:07 GMT -5
Basically this is how a superstar's elevated when a hotter superstar feuds with them. Let's use I don't know, Wyatt and shit, Slater. - The Fiend feuds with Slater - Slater gets hot in the feud due to the connection between the Funhouse and his kids - The Fiend beats Slater - The Fiend goes on to feud with someone else - Slater's hotness from the previous feud carries over into the next feud due to how it was and the match afterwards - Slater's elevated regardless if he'll lose his next feud or if he wins it That's what's supposed to happen and that's what the intention is when they have these feuds. The thing is, the power discrepancy between Fiend and Slater... Fiend should instantly Sister Abigail -> Mandible Claw -> Neck Snap Slater off of TV in order to maintain his power level.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 17:55:09 GMT -5
Basically this is how a superstar's elevated when a hotter superstar feuds with them. Let's use I don't know, Wyatt and shit, Slater. - The Fiend feuds with Slater - Slater gets hot in the feud due to the connection between the Funhouse and his kids - The Fiend beats Slater - The Fiend goes on to feud with someone else - Slater's hotness from the previous feud carries over into the next feud due to how it was and the match afterwards - Slater's elevated regardless if he'll lose his next feud or if he wins it That's what's supposed to happen and that's what the intention is when they have these feuds. The thing is, the power discrepancy between Fiend and Slater... Fiend should instantly Sister Abigail -> Mandible Claw -> Neck Snap Slater off of TV in order to maintain his power level. Yeah that would work and then when Slater shows up at a Rumble he'd get a great reception lol. It would be a great feud. I could see the Fiend toying with Slater like a kid but Slater then gets a few shots in because his kids are some of the Funhouse kids now and then the Fiend just beats Slater's ass keeping him off of tv. Yeah Slater gets his kids back because the Fiend has no use for them but it would show how you can reasonably take someone like that on. That works for a Slater character because he's got ties and connections, it would make sense. But Rollins? I can't even imagine how that's going to work. I keep imagining Seth showing up in the Funhouse threatening one of the puppets. Ugggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
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Post by Dub H on Sept 16, 2019 17:55:17 GMT -5
Styles is another example because, like I've been saying, Styles not only gave these stars some of their best matches but even when they lost against Styles they came out better than prior. Jinder for example, he had his best match ever with Styles and then was inserted in the US Title picture where everyone said he felt like he belonged and understood things there more than the main event picture. Jinder's style sort of changed and he just sort of "clicked", all because of the Styles feud. Owens, I've been saying that KO's been bad ever since that Universal Title run so Styles didn't do anything there. Rusev is the perfect example of someone who was that dude when he was going against Styles and looked better in that match and coming out of that match due to that feud but that's been Rusev's MO since he's always been able to make anything great. I can't contribute that to him. Joe, I was the guy who started the "Joe is a bitch" thing and yet I was saying he was doing some of his best work with Styles and even after that match anytime Joe had an opportunity whether it was against a champion, Reigns, KOTR, no matter what Joe's had momentum and didn't look somehow worse. Crowd still behind him, still cutting dope promos, Joe's got that one. The results of the AJ feuds were the biggest problem. People were upset about the stuff with AJ because his opponents were built up good enough to dethrone him. The consistent thing with AJ in all his feuds is his weakness being his anger. Each opponent exploited that and many times he was left laying in the ring whether it was from a Shinsuke dick shot or Joe making him go night night However, when AJ won he won decisively. The heel came up to short to the babyface and their is nothing wrong with that when the heels or the opponent in general are put in a position where they looked like a threat and wasn't just fodder Plus AJ won like 3 times decisively by feud in title matches. Nakamura and Joe lost like 3 title matchs and won one non-title each.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 18:11:17 GMT -5
Styles is another example because, like I've been saying, Styles not only gave these stars some of their best matches but even when they lost against Styles they came out better than prior. Jinder for example, he had his best match ever with Styles and then was inserted in the US Title picture where everyone said he felt like he belonged and understood things there more than the main event picture. Jinder's style sort of changed and he just sort of "clicked", all because of the Styles feud. Owens, I've been saying that KO's been bad ever since that Universal Title run so Styles didn't do anything there. Rusev is the perfect example of someone who was that dude when he was going against Styles and looked better in that match and coming out of that match due to that feud but that's been Rusev's MO since he's always been able to make anything great. I can't contribute that to him. Joe, I was the guy who started the "Joe is a bitch" thing and yet I was saying he was doing some of his best work with Styles and even after that match anytime Joe had an opportunity whether it was against a champion, Reigns, KOTR, no matter what Joe's had momentum and didn't look somehow worse. Crowd still behind him, still cutting dope promos, Joe's got that one. The results of the AJ feuds were the biggest problem. People were upset about the stuff with AJ because his opponents were built up good enough to dethrone him. The consistent thing with AJ in all his feuds is his weakness being his anger. Each opponent exploited that and many times he was left laying in the ring whether it was from a Shinsuke dick shot or Joe making him go night night However, when AJ won he won decisively. The heel came up to short to the babyface and their is nothing wrong with that when the heels or the opponent in general are put in a position where they looked like a threat and wasn't just fodder Right and one thing we can say is that AJ tried his damnest to make his opponent look the best they possibly could. Even Jinder. Dude made Jinder look like a boss in their match and after that match it's like Jinder realized who he was and what he could do.
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Post by Starshine on Sept 16, 2019 18:13:40 GMT -5
Becky and the rest of the women are just straight up unlikable right now. That's the problem. When she was 'raging against the machine' her anger and contempt for everything around her felt relatable. Now she just comes off a petulant when she shits on everyone else.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 18:14:02 GMT -5
You're misunderstanding me. I'm not talking about if Kofi won and became a main eventer, I'm talking about his overall level as a wrestler, the crowd reception, himself as a whole. This isn't about where your position is on the card. You're making it seem like I'm saying "well since Bryan elevated Kofi he's in the main event now so that shows Bryan elevates Kofi" when that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying is Kofi himself had a shift from the midcarder Kofi to main event Kofi with the crowd and how he's perceived. You could hear it with the cheers, you could hear it in how he was putting so much of himself into his programming whether it was him winning or losing. Kofi's lost and got beaten multiple times before he became champion but the feud and Bryan were so great at what was going on that it didn't matter and Kofi kept being elevated. Regardless of the shenanigans on SDL, regardless of Bryan's comments, regardless of the losses and switches, regardless it kept elevating Kofi to that next level even when he got those Ls. These others just take those Ls and the balloon deflates because the momentum isn't sustained. Styles is another example because, like I've been saying, Styles not only gave these stars some of their best matches but even when they lost against Styles they came out better than prior. Jinder for example, he had his best match ever with Styles and then was inserted in the US Title picture where everyone said he felt like he belonged and understood things there more than the main event picture. Jinder's style sort of changed and he just sort of "clicked", all because of the Styles feud. Owens, I've been saying that KO's been bad ever since that Universal Title run so Styles didn't do anything there. Rusev is the perfect example of someone who was that dude when he was going against Styles and looked better in that match and coming out of that match due to that feud but that's been Rusev's MO since he's always been able to make anything great. I can't contribute that to him. Joe, I was the guy who started the "Joe is a bitch" thing and yet I was saying he was doing some of his best work with Styles and even after that match anytime Joe had an opportunity whether it was against a champion, Reigns, KOTR, no matter what Joe's had momentum and didn't look somehow worse. Crowd still behind him, still cutting dope promos, Joe's got that one. Now to everyone else, - Asuka: The Becky win didn't help her as she was featured less on the program, didn't get any increase in cheers and she had no challengers. She was seen as more of a joke given she actually lost matches at that point and given who was getting wins on her. She was far more highlighted and cheered prior to becoming champion. I mean she literally was seen less on tv and people forgot she was champion. No, she was not elevated with the Becky win. - Lacey: You mean the same Lacey who no one cared about after the match? You literally just said that no one cared about her other than the Becky match, you're proving my point that the Becky feud didn't help her keep momentum. - Sasha: There's a reason this thread was made. Becky's OP. You saying that Becky elevates her opponents is the same as you saying that Cena during his run elevated everyone he went against and beat no matter who they were because they're both doing the same thing from a booking perspective. You honestly can't believe that. You know the response Cena got with him winning all the time and being Super Cena even though the fans liked those matches. Jinder was WWE champion for 6 months and main eventing PPV's. His first PPV after the Styles feud was Royal Rumble. He was treated like a random midcarder and gone in less than 5 minutes to no fanfare. Joe lost 4 straight PPVs to Styles. The first PPV after the Styles feud was Survivor Series. He was literally the first person eliminated. After 35 seconds! How can you honestly say they weren't in a worse position? If Becky beat Sasha at COC, beat her again to end the feud at HIAC and then Sasha's first match afterwards was her being beaten in a comedy jobber like fashion I guarantee you wouldn't have the same energy and think she's doing fine. You'd probably be saying she's buried. Just out of interest, you said Charlotte was good at elevating her opponents. What about Asuka losing to her then having to smile and shake her hand after the match then a year later taking her title off her with no build? Asuka was the strongest booked woman on the roster then after Charlotte beat her she was regularly losing to Carmella and the Iconics. Then she was rebuilt with wins over Becky and Charlotte at TLC and RR only to then be thwarted again in March. Charlotte killed her momentum twice in less than a year and Asuka is nowhere near the star she was in 2016-17 or last December-January. What about Sasha getting the pop of her life when she returned at RR in 2016 only to lose to Charlotte at Wrestlemania then lose to her again on another FOUR PPV's that year. Look at Sasha's crowd reactions in early 2016 compared to early 2017. That title hot potato and losing every PPV match she had with Charlotte made her way less over. Do you think this was Charlotte's fault? Because it seems like you have one rule for some people and one rule for others. Like, I want to stress this again because you completely no-sold the fact that Lacey went from someone most people didn't know at the start of the year to a midcarder with a PPV main event under her belt. In what world is that not being elevated. Hell even if she was jobbing every week she'd still be in a better position than she was before feuding with Becky because she literally had NO position before that. And Sasha was floundering in the tag team division and hadn't been champion in 3 years. Now she's in the hottest feud right now and will probably be champion very soon. How has this feud not elevated her? Do you think if she returned to feud with the Riott Squad again she'd have the same momentum she does now? If Becky wins this feud and Sasha goes back to doing nothing like she was for most of 2017-18 then you might have a point but right now she's hotter than she's been in years and I'm willing to bet will end up with the title.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 16, 2019 18:24:52 GMT -5
The results of the AJ feuds were the biggest problem. People were upset about the stuff with AJ because his opponents were built up good enough to dethrone him. The consistent thing with AJ in all his feuds is his weakness being his anger. Each opponent exploited that and many times he was left laying in the ring whether it was from a Shinsuke dick shot or Joe making him go night night However, when AJ won he won decisively. The heel came up to short to the babyface and their is nothing wrong with that when the heels or the opponent in general are put in a position where they looked like a threat and wasn't just fodder Right and one thing we can say is that AJ tried his damnest to make his opponent look the best they possibly could. Even Jinder. Dude made Jinder look like a boss in their match and after that match it's like Jinder realized who he was and what he could do. Shinsuke, Joe, and Jinder were all able to and win the US title right after fighting AJ without it feeling like a big step down
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 16, 2019 18:25:35 GMT -5
Becky and the rest of the women are just straight up unlikable right now. That's the problem. When she was 'raging against the machine' her anger and contempt for everything around her felt relatable. Now she just comes off a petulant when she shits on everyone else. Conor McGregor lite in just shit talking everyone tho
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Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
Leslie needs to butt out for fear of receiving The Bunghole Buster
Posts: 31,949
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Post by Perd on Sept 16, 2019 18:28:38 GMT -5
I think some of this isn’t fair to lay at Becky’s feet. I think Lacey came out of that feud pretty well. It’s not Becky’s fault that WWE took her off TV for weeks. It’s alsp not her fault that the women’s division is a 1-2 feud enterprise. If you’re not the champion or the challenger, you’re forgotten. That was a problem welll before Becky’s rise.
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tenshi
Patti Mayonnaise
Probably more memorable than a Charlotte title reign
Posts: 33,917
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Post by tenshi on Sept 16, 2019 18:42:53 GMT -5
Becky and the rest of the women are just straight up unlikable right now. That's the problem. When she was 'raging against the machine' her anger and contempt for everything around her felt relatable. Now she just comes off a petulant when she shits on everyone else. Conor McGregor lite in just shit talking everyone tho If that's the case, the division needs a Khabib, someone that is a viable threat, doesn't talk much but dominates its way to the top. Arrogant to some and awkward to others but confident in its skill to smash the opposition and letting the results do the talking.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Sept 16, 2019 18:49:17 GMT -5
Conor McGregor lite in just shit talking everyone tho If that's the case, the division needs a Khabib, someone that is a viable threat, doesn't talk much but dominates its way to the top. Arrogant to some and awkward to others but confident in its skill to smash the opposition and letting the results do the talking. Asuka is already a thing, and they're not doing a whole lot with her now.
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