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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 4, 2021 10:14:54 GMT -5
So, judging by the fact that this thread wasn't bumped the instant the segment finished, nothing particularly egregious was said this week either. Look, CMM needs to sleep at some point. It is very noisy in New York sometimes. He also has to take some time to worship the Taz shrine he has before he goes to bed.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 13, 2021 18:55:21 GMT -5
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Post by häšhtå.gdālėÿ on Sept 13, 2021 20:42:48 GMT -5
It’s fun to dream big.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,804
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Post by schma on Sept 13, 2021 21:00:46 GMT -5
There are many reasons she would not be bigger than the Rock (I say this as a Lynch fan), but one of the big ones is that the Rock was not wrestling in a tiny division that some of the top execs had zero interest in pushing and might even try to sabotage.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Sept 13, 2021 21:11:32 GMT -5
I thought they tore it down to build one for his son. (I need someone to explain to me the whole Hook thing) Basic jist; he’s basically somehow the coolest 18 year old ever? And this is coming from his dad being Taz. And I love Taz. He’s got this weird sweet spot where it’s like “I might be able to take him, but I don’t think I wanna take the chance”
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Post by theironyuppie on Sept 13, 2021 21:28:36 GMT -5
In fairness, it was from an interview where she was doing her usual thing of speaking in kayfabe.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2021 22:19:59 GMT -5
lol Love ya Bex, but it's never happening.
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mistery
King Koopa
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Post by mistery on Sept 13, 2021 22:30:49 GMT -5
They've been running Becky vs Bianca at house shows, and I'll put the finish in spoiler tags, but they've definitely nerfed her power levels. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW}The finish is her trying for the disarmer after failing to roll up Bianca using her tights as an assist. Bianca reverses it into the KOD, but Becky rakes the eyes, and rolls her up, using either the tights or ropes for leverage to score the pin.
Needless to say, I think Becky is going to retain at Extreme Rules, but it'll be incredibly dirty.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 7, 2021 9:07:41 GMT -5
We back?
I didn’t watch Raw last night but see she won against Liv through nefarious means
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 7, 2021 9:10:13 GMT -5
We back? I didn’t watch Raw last night but see she won against Liv through nefarious means Yes, but no, because a different thread was started.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 7, 2021 9:12:35 GMT -5
We back? I didn’t watch Raw last night but see she won against Liv through nefarious means Yes, but no, because a different thread was started. Oh word? I just saw
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,460
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Post by msc on Dec 7, 2021 9:23:06 GMT -5
I mean, she wins but she's quite clearly a cheating cheaty heel these days who would lose if she wasn't screwing over the faces.
Compared to streamroller Flair on the other channel.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2021 9:25:50 GMT -5
Seems people are finally getting what we were saying over 2 years ago.
And Becky outsmarting Liv just proves she's OP. She is smarter than her opponents. Just because she isn't beating them through physical strength doesn't mean she isn't OP. Intelligence is factored into this. If you wanna go further then Becky was talking about being able to outsmart Rhea and Nikki in a handicap match the other day. She said she wouldn't outbrawn them but she'd outsmart them and win. I mean, that's the point of the thread.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Dec 7, 2021 9:58:14 GMT -5
Seems people are finally getting what we were saying over 2 years ago. And Becky outsmarting Liv just proves she's OP. She is smarter than her opponents. Just because she isn't beating them through physical strength doesn't mean she isn't OP. Intelligence is factored into this. If you wanna go further then Becky was talking about being able to outsmart Rhea and Nikki in a handicap match the other day. She said she wouldn't outbrawn them but she'd outsmart them and win. I mean, that's the point of the thread. Speaking for myself, it's been a hard thing to come to grips with. Observing the board, it appears on the surface that the booking that Lynch gets (and others like Reigns or Flair) where they almost always win and rarely look weak is precisely what they want for all the many underutilised talents there are, of which there are too many to list here, based on the outcry whenever those other talents lose and/or look weak. But it's obviously not the case, is it? It's like... What's the way out of this? Anything that gets done to Lynch or Reigns or Flair to get the belt off of them won't be enough to make up for all that led to it. "That's great, they won one match, THAT makes up for the last x months/years". Dripping with sarcasm. And it could be completely moot depending on who does it. It really feels like WWE can't be trusted to do anything more than just Wrestling Challenge-style squash matches. Get in, win your match, get out, don't bother trying to tell a story longer than the match itself because you'll f*** it up. But they'll never go back to that because it will tank the ratings even more. They can't be trusted to tell long-term stories, but it's their only legitimate way out, and they're gonna have to ride through us types here making final judgments on those stories each and every week, writing off a talent as dead and buried the moment they aren't in a state of perpetual dominance, and stay the path and not blink, hoping that eventually we will go "...That turned out OK in the end, I guess". And then they have to do that AGAIN with some different talents. And again. And again. And so on, until someone at FOX, someone at USA and the Saudi Arabian government decides to either stop giving them money, or give them more money, in which case, they keep going. Sorry if this ended up a bit rambly, but it's just my thought process where trying to solve one problem in WWE only seems to exacerbate another, and the only thing I seem to land on these days that gives me the desired outcomes of "Talents get to win all the time" and "Talents aren't made to look weak" is "Outside enhancement matches?".
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,725
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Post by nisidhe on Dec 7, 2021 11:03:56 GMT -5
It really feels like WWE can't be trusted to do anything more than just Wrestling Challenge-style squash matches. Get in, win your match, get out, don't bother trying to tell a story longer than the match itself because you'll f*** it up. But they'll never go back to that because it will tank the ratings even more. They can't be trusted to tell long-term stories, but it's their only legitimate way out, and they're gonna have to ride through us types here making final judgments on those stories each and every week, writing off a talent as dead and buried the moment they aren't in a state of perpetual dominance, and stay the path and not blink, hoping that eventually we will go "...That turned out OK in the end, I guess". And then they have to do that AGAIN with some different talents. And again. And again. And so on, until someone at FOX, someone at USA and the Saudi Arabian government decides to either stop giving them money, or give them more money, in which case, they keep going. Sorry if this ended up a bit rambly, but it's just my thought process where trying to solve one problem in WWE only seems to exacerbate another, and the only thing I seem to land on these days that gives me the desired outcomes of "Talents get to win all the time" and "Talents aren't made to look weak" is "Outside enhancement matches?". TV wrestling historically was all about selling the live events. That's why you had the local jobbers selling all the "superstars'" moves in 3-5 minute matches; it's why you had interviews that touted (ha!) feuds and live events and pay-per-views; it's why _Saturday Night's Main Event_ often teased direct feuds (Hogan facing Orndorff in the steel cage in the run-up to WM III against Andre, for example.) There was also a clear trajectory for superstars depending on how over they got, and the booking team of the day (prior to the mid-1990s when most of the old guard had left) booked according to reactions. In old-school WWF, you had about three years if you were moderately successful, perhaps as long as five if you were majorly over. The bulk of that time was being sold on TV through preliminary matches while booked for feuds for the house shows. The Monday Night Wars shifted the focus of wrestling narrative from the house shows or even the PPVs to the weekly television shows, with no letup for the feuds nor the visible trajectories for those on the shows. The problem with that is that there are precious few left to replace those now on the downward slope of that trajectory, and the perception of fans that being on the downward slope means that their favourites are no longer important or have value or have any chance at the titles - ergo, with AEW on the horizon, we're looking at the exits vicariously for our favourites to leave and make their marks elsewhere.
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Bang Bang Bart
Ozymandius
The King of North America
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Dec 7, 2021 11:24:34 GMT -5
Having three dominating heel champions who never really suffer setbacks across two shows seems like bad business, if you ask me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2021 12:00:17 GMT -5
The fact they keep touting that for the better part of 3yrs now every single time Becky has been on TV she has always held the title , which good for her as an individual accomplishment but that is insane and really shows how absoloutley worthless any other woman on the roster is as long as Becky is around.
Bianca getting away from Becky is a blessing for her because getting around Becky is almost as detrimental now as feuding with Charlotte.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by asuka007 on Dec 7, 2021 12:01:07 GMT -5
The problem is WWE is so bad at paying things off for the babyfaces in the end. It does not matter much if she cheats if she just keeps winning anyway, it just makes the faces look incompetent.
Also we have THREE heels like this right now as champion and it feels so much like overkill.
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Post by sunnytaker on Dec 7, 2021 13:25:56 GMT -5
well compared to roman and charlotte, becky comes off as the weakest link in that roman and charlotte tend to dominate 95% of the time and win fairly cleanly by heel standards. becky is the one who keeps realizing she can't win in a fair fight so she needs to cheat to hang onto to her title. plus so far she has been the one the face usually ends up getting the better of in the build to the match itself compared to roman or the queen of pie facing. so if becky is OP she's like second tier OP while the other two and clearly in the top tier.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2021 16:35:37 GMT -5
Seems people are finally getting what we were saying over 2 years ago. And Becky outsmarting Liv just proves she's OP. She is smarter than her opponents. Just because she isn't beating them through physical strength doesn't mean she isn't OP. Intelligence is factored into this. If you wanna go further then Becky was talking about being able to outsmart Rhea and Nikki in a handicap match the other day. She said she wouldn't outbrawn them but she'd outsmart them and win. I mean, that's the point of the thread. Speaking for myself, it's been a hard thing to come to grips with. Observing the board, it appears on the surface that the booking that Lynch gets (and others like Reigns or Flair) where they almost always win and rarely look weak is precisely what they want for all the many underutilised talents there are, of which there are too many to list here, based on the outcry whenever those other talents lose and/or look weak. But it's obviously not the case, is it? It's like... What's the way out of this? Anything that gets done to Lynch or Reigns or Flair to get the belt off of them won't be enough to make up for all that led to it. "That's great, they won one match, THAT makes up for the last x months/years". Dripping with sarcasm. And it could be completely moot depending on who does it. It really feels like WWE can't be trusted to do anything more than just Wrestling Challenge-style squash matches. Get in, win your match, get out, don't bother trying to tell a story longer than the match itself because you'll f*** it up. But they'll never go back to that because it will tank the ratings even more. They can't be trusted to tell long-term stories, but it's their only legitimate way out, and they're gonna have to ride through us types here making final judgments on those stories each and every week, writing off a talent as dead and buried the moment they aren't in a state of perpetual dominance, and stay the path and not blink, hoping that eventually we will go "...That turned out OK in the end, I guess". And then they have to do that AGAIN with some different talents. And again. And again. And so on, until someone at FOX, someone at USA and the Saudi Arabian government decides to either stop giving them money, or give them more money, in which case, they keep going. Sorry if this ended up a bit rambly, but it's just my thought process where trying to solve one problem in WWE only seems to exacerbate another, and the only thing I seem to land on these days that gives me the desired outcomes of "Talents get to win all the time" and "Talents aren't made to look weak" is "Outside enhancement matches?". There's really no quick way to fix this sadly. The only way it'll make sense and become a satisfying conclusion is if you craft an amazing storyline equipped with an amazing match and finally an amazing finish. An example is AJ's title reign. We were saying for a while he should have lost earlier and yeah it sucked but what it did give us is heel Planet's Champion Bryan which then turned into Kofi finally winning the title. I'd say even though AJ's reign wasn't great, I'd give it a pass because of what came from it. Bryan made the belt better. With these 3 (Reigns, Charlotte and Becky) I don't think they'll have anything that gives us that kind of impact unless they can somehow craft a "Super Wrestlemania storyline for them" and by that I mean Kofi's win or Bryan's win or just something where a loved wrestler finally gets the win and it's so huge that people overlook any booking issues. Nobody talks about the pitfalls in Kofi's trek to the title because the win was so great. Yeah Bryan had a lot of problems with him reaching the title but his character and that win's still so great that it's all a lot of people want him to do these days, even AEW people still wanna see that Bryan. I just don't think they're thinking of that right now with any of these 3 champions.
To me it appears as though as they care more about promoting and the press they can get out of these champions. Like who's the face of the brand, and that goes above if the storylines make sense and how everyone else is. They don't care about who's next up. Given this they'll keep these people strong because that's easy press compared to making a story that's more fulfilling for fans and other wrestlers. When they wanna promote somebody else, they'll give them the shot and to do that they'll craft a 1, maybe 2 month at most storyline for it. So in this Liv case, they see Becky as the one they wanna push so everybody else looks secondary compared to her. Liv, they might wanna see how she is in the future so they let Becky get a sneaky win. We'll see what happens with Liv within these next few months because if it looks well she could be next up. I don't know.
I mean...I guess they could do the "surprise challenger ends up getting a win over the champion to which the embarrassed champion starts going on a downward spiral" thing. I just don't see them doing that because they love keeping the people they like mega-strong. Maybe if it were Bayley or Sasha or Owens, just someone they'd be ok with doing that, just not these three.
Another thing is that this company doesn't know how to keep someone strong and yet they can still be weak enough to lose. It's either strong or weak, there's no in between with these champions. In the past you had HBK being the perfect example of a strong but also weak champion no matter if he were face or heel but somehow that changed. I don't know if it started with Cena's reign but that's when I think "alright, this guy's too strong from a modern perspective." Here though it's like, they're sorta cartoony strong at times.
Overall yeah, it sucks. There's no quick way out of it.
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