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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Oct 13, 2019 19:33:45 GMT -5
To add to the “expect too much knowledge on the viewers part”, MJF cut a heel promo last week and this week came in for the hero’s save of Cody. Not to mention, apparently Cody was a heel the whole time on the Indies save for that one match with Magnus where he won the NWA title because it was All in Cody's face turn came in New Japan during the Bullet Club civil war, and he sided with the Elite faction (the more face of the two) over the OG faction. Granted, he worked heel for the Double or Nothing match against Dustin, but promptly became a face again like, immediately after the match ended with his "I don't need a partner, I need my brother" promo. And he's been a face ever since. Also I 100% disagree with the people who want only clearly defined faces and heels. I like that AEW's alignments are more ambiguous and fluid compared to how clear-cut everything is in WWE. That's something from New Japan I love, though maybe they could say something on commentary about how their wrestlers are more than just two-dimensional "good guys" and "bad guys" for people not used to that style of booking.
New Japan’s characters are very clearly defined IMO. Their dynamic is great because there are different kinds of faces and heels. Tanahashi is a more traditional face, Okada is a cockier Rock-type face, and White is an egomaniac. Suzuki is a mean veteran heel, Tenzan, Nagata and Liger are the kind elder statesmen, and Naito and LIJ are anti-hero tweeners. Jericho is the invading monster, there are flashier faces like Ospreay and Ibushi, comedy faces like Taguchi and Yano, serious faces like Ishii and serious heels like KENTA, and flat out rat bastards like Taichi. WWE almost always has a variety of odd characters, too. Their real problem is how they’re more heavily scripted than NJPW/AEW. So the lower card wrestlers don’t get the development the main stars do, and some of the top card comes off more restrained or feeling inconsistent because of it. It’s an issue for everyone in WWE, but you know who I’m talking about: the folks who have to chase Carmella and Truth around, the ones who have to go run out and break up brawling main eventers regardless if they’ve face or heel, etc. Let’s take Chad Gable. Him becoming “Shorty Gable” doesn’t feel like a natural progression for him, it’s obviously some dumb crap Vince (or Eric or Paul) wrote to amuse himself. Maybe Gable and Corbin could make the program better and more unique if their angle wasn’t as micromanaged by those in charge. Or look at the Kabuki Warriors, they’ve been pretty heelish lately but they haven’t been given a storyline detailing it happening. But Bayley is higher up, so she gets to have one. Whereas I can tell Cody, Tony Khan, etc. are allowing people like MJF, Darby Allin, Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus to have real creative visions backstage, and do what they want with their gimmicks as much as the Bucks and Omega can. We can tell MJF is full of crap and is pretending to be Cody’s friend for the clout. But I’m not expecting a dumb swerve, or for the AEW staff to just either suddenly forget the story or repackage MJF randomly with something that might not suit his persona. As much as I enjoy WWE, I usually can’t give them the benefit of the doubt on that. Long story short, AEW needs to keep giving the talent leeway, and don’t hire a team of TV writers for their midcarders. Because how could they know a wrestler’s character better than the worker themselves?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2019 22:59:39 GMT -5
They assume way too much knowledge of their audience.I said it in another thread their doing over a million viewers on TNT but only do between 150K to 300K views on Being The Elite that tells you there’s a ton of new viewers to the product that don’t have any idea what’s going on with these people. Dedicate 3 to 5 minutes a show to familiarize the audience to the talent.We’re going into week 3 and we’ve seen nothing on Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus.Allie should be on TV she’s a pretty girl who was popular in impact and got a ton of TV time.Familiar faces can only help. Don’t try to get everyone over all at the same time cause with such a small roster that’s a recipe for disaster and leads to 50/50 booking.If your gonna push Darby who’s new to the audience don’t have him be dominated by Havoc just have him beat him.When its Havoc’s turn for a push have him win.Moxley should have steamrolled Janela & Spears. More Promo’s.The fact that Moxley still hasn’t cut a promo is baffling you only have a few guys that can talk...let them talk.You don’t want AEW to become Jericho and The Land of The Tiny Mute Men. I've really enjoyed both shows, but I couldn't agree more with most of this. It's crazy to me that they've done two episodes and if you're watching to check the show out, you'd have zero idea that A Boy and His Dinosaur exist, they haven't shown Allie at all, and you'd still have no idea what Orange Cassidy's deal is after his lone appearance in a confusing bit that cut away so awkwardly to an unrelated entrance. I do appreciate that they didn't try to cram everyone in on week one (or even two), but these are all people who could get over very quickly with some "coming soon!" appearances to keep new viewers on the hook, especially to help get/keep traction on social media where attention may be fleeting. I actually wouldn’t mind if they devoted 5 minutes of a show to do the old ecw pulp fiction promo montage type deal no one has really done that on a national stage and it was really effective in getting talent on tv and telling you their motivations when ecw only had 1 hour of tv. I’m liking what I’ve been seeing so far from AEW and nothing will ever will be perfect.Cody,The Bucks and Kahn are all very new at running a wrestling company.Cody and The Bucks talk in interviews about how exhausted they are being wrestlers & doing all the behind the scenes stuff so its easy for stuff to fall through the cracks.Their fanbase is loyal & very focal heaping them with praise much of it very deserved but they don’t represent the larger viewing audience who’s seeing all this for the 1st time and has no idea the backstories you don’t want those new viewers feeling left out cause it doesn’t matter how great the wrestling is if people don’t care about the characters & the stories you will never hook them longterm. The good thing is its still very early and these issues are easily rectifiable and its great to see new stars being created.
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Post by honsou on Oct 14, 2019 1:54:16 GMT -5
Maybe its a personal taste thing but I feel like all of their matches go on for a few minutes longer than they really should.
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Post by Session Moth is over on Oct 14, 2019 11:21:05 GMT -5
No mood lighting on crowd
Mid Card Title
No 50/50 booking
Shorter TV matches. PPV's should be for the big matches, TV for building characters and feuds.
More backstage segments.
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Post by KofiMania on Oct 14, 2019 11:27:29 GMT -5
Episodes are posted on TNT’s website. They don’t even require a sign in. As they air? I want to watch them live, not after the fact. Looks like the 2nd episode is only a 5 minute preview. LAME. Pretty sure Hulu with live tv, fubo, YouTube tv, sling and PlayStation vue are all streaming services you can use to stream TNT legally.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2019 11:35:26 GMT -5
They're going to need to address the fact that a year from now, if they're taking the records seriously, we're going to have guys at like...35 and 5 against guys at 23 and 10.
It should be a storyline point that records reset every year at All Out. Give people some desperation to get their big title shots before that. Explains more why guys like PAC are being jerks.
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Post by KofiMania on Oct 14, 2019 13:15:26 GMT -5
I’ll echo the sentiments about the women’s division. It has a very Women of Honor vibe to it and seems well behind NXT and WWE’s divisions.
Other than that, a little background package for certain wrestlers might be nice to explain the characters and their motivations. And jobber matches would be great as well.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Oct 14, 2019 16:14:28 GMT -5
Tell us who everyone is. They have been doing a great job of introducing the lesser known talent, but they have been pretty bad at introducing most of the famous gaijinns.
I keep up with wrestling news, but have not watched that much of the work of The Elite - so to me and my household, Cody was a not particularly impressive midcarder, Adam Page is a babyface who spits at people who is somehow a Hangman and a Cowboy but outside of clothes and move names doesn't seem to be one at all, and Kenny and the Young Bucks are nobody.
We haven't been given reason to care about them other than 'they own the place!' Cool, so? Does that mean they do good work? We've all been very impressed by Cody's work, we appreciate and respect the Bucks, without much actual heat for any of them, Kenny I have seen more of and enjoy but the other two haven't seen him do that much of note, and Page... has changed our perception in absolutely no way with any of his work.
Japanese wrestlers? Rando indie f***s that we've never seen before? All of them introduced and explained really well, but the Elite are mostly guys who wrestle like heels, but are babyfaces in most matches, and you're meant to pop for them doing heelish shit because the faces win rather than care that they cheated. I'm not saying that there is no room in wrestling for this, simply that it hasn't really been adequately explained. You can get away with stuff like this when the characters are so beloved, but to a new viewer, there is no reason to find the Elite beloved as wrestling characters. People yes, but not wrestlers.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Oct 14, 2019 18:40:36 GMT -5
They're going to need to address the fact that a year from now, if they're taking the records seriously, we're going to have guys at like...35 and 5 against guys at 23 and 10. It should be a storyline point that records reset every year at All Out. Give people some desperation to get their big title shots before that. Explains more why guys like PAC are being jerks. Presumably it has to reset at some point, right? Otherwise in months/years to come when everyone is 71-56 the whole gimmick will become arbitrary. I think it causes more problems than it solves and would be better used sparingly (such and such has won 14 of his last 18 matches on Dynamite) rather than something they try and book the whole promotion around. My own personal thing I'd like to see AEW work on would be to make the stakes feel more important. It still feels like every event is an indy supercard where it's essentially exhibition matches - everyone is booked as being on a level with everyone else and the crowd loves everyone so nobody stands out.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 14, 2019 18:59:27 GMT -5
Since it's a weekly wrestling show, I think the win-loss records should reset with new "seasons" once a year, though champs remain the same obviously. It's not like boxing or MMA where it's a lot more feasible to have career win-loss records since there aren't fights every week.
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Post by mrpeacock on Oct 14, 2019 19:15:40 GMT -5
Small continuity things. Like why would Cody shake hands with Sammy Guevara after he pulled his wife in the way of a dive? That kind of stuff bothers me.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 14, 2019 20:10:47 GMT -5
Since it's a weekly wrestling show, I think the win-loss records should reset with new "seasons" once a year, though champs remain the same obviously. It's not like boxing or MMA where it's a lot more feasible to have career win-loss records since there aren't fights every week. Yea I was about to come in and address that You basically have your big show and that's the end of your season. Everything goes back to 0-0 so that way you have historic records to have for future use like most wins in a season, most L's in a season, win streaks etc The only thing to really carry over each year in terms of records is your PPV matches record, championship matches record, shit like that
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 14, 2019 21:33:28 GMT -5
Small continuity things. Like why would Cody shake hands with Sammy Guevara after he pulled his wife in the way of a dive? That kind of stuff bothers me. I could buy maybe Cody just didn't get a good look at him doing that on purpose.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 14, 2019 22:30:18 GMT -5
Small continuity things. Like why would Cody shake hands with Sammy Guevara after he pulled his wife in the way of a dive? That kind of stuff bothers me. I could buy maybe Cody just didn't get a good look at him doing that on purpose. Cody saw tho, because Sammy pulled her right in front of him and then Brandy gave Sammy a receipt with a slap before the match ended
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Post by Cyno on Oct 14, 2019 22:36:06 GMT -5
Maybe the former heel in Cody respected that kind of hustle in Sammy and a desperation to win by any means necessary.
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Post by Dub H on Oct 14, 2019 22:44:38 GMT -5
Maybe the former heel in Cody respected that kind of hustle in Sammy and a desperation to win by any means necessary. Cody is a heelish face.He knows the " anything to win" attitude
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 14, 2019 22:51:07 GMT -5
Maybe the former heel in Cody respected that kind of hustle in Sammy and a desperation to win by any means necessary. By putting his wife in danger tho
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 0:42:39 GMT -5
Get a better ring announcer. Justin Roberts is the only ring announcer to ever cut a “shoot promo” after getting bounced from the WWE. Dude stinks. Get Capeta out of retirement or something
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Post by Dang! on Oct 15, 2019 4:27:41 GMT -5
I also have to go with entrances and especially themes. Other than Jericho's theme there is really nothing that sticks around in your head. Even the top tier guys with flashy entrances don't have themes that resonate in your head forever. So far the only really weak point of AEW are entrance themes.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Oct 15, 2019 4:47:00 GMT -5
Since it's a weekly wrestling show, I think the win-loss records should reset with new "seasons" once a year, though champs remain the same obviously. It's not like boxing or MMA where it's a lot more feasible to have career win-loss records since there aren't fights every week. I definitely think win-loss records are going to need some bit of retooling as people have more matches, and their booking changes in time. Someone might end up being 10-8 by next year, but five of those wins might have been the last five matches they had, so they are actually on a big win streak which isn't really communicated by their overall record. I was thinking that the records might get changed into the wrestler's last 10 matches, so that they tell a better story of the wrestlers' more recent success as opposed to stuff they did in the earlier shows that isn't really relevant at the present.
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