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Post by ogreknee on Nov 14, 2019 15:15:04 GMT -5
In japan the only japanese talent he worked was ibushi.
Kenny is great, but even kenny vs jay white was met with tepid reactions
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,070
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 14, 2019 15:17:11 GMT -5
Look at who cody worked though. Juice before he got over. Elgin. Finlay. Omega. Cody worked with Juice, and that's how Juice got over more than Cody. That WrestleKingdom match is why Juice has risen up the ladder because his fire was crazy good and he outperformed Cody Cody worked with Okada and had a passable match when Okada was still white hot. He worked with Omega who is probably the best wrestler in the world and their matches weren't white hot. He worked with Ibushi which was his best match in NJPW His style just didn't fit and he had top class workers to work with. Up until AEW, I always said about Cody he can invest me in his match but watching it is still up in the air Cody can't work a G1 unless he has a story going all through it. Putting him in match after match is a losing bet Cody had a bad knee injury against Juice, I would certainly hope Robinson would put in the stronger performance.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 14, 2019 15:24:17 GMT -5
Cody worked with Juice, and that's how Juice got over more than Cody. That WrestleKingdom match is why Juice has risen up the ladder because his fire was crazy good and he outperformed Cody Cody worked with Okada and had a passable match when Okada was still white hot. He worked with Omega who is probably the best wrestler in the world and their matches weren't white hot. He worked with Ibushi which was his best match in NJPW His style just didn't fit and he had top class workers to work with. Up until AEW, I always said about Cody he can invest me in his match but watching it is still up in the air Cody can't work a G1 unless he has a story going all through it. Putting him in match after match is a losing bet Cody had a bad knee injury against Juice, I would certainly hope Robinson would put in the stronger performance. The 1st match not the 2nd one That 2nd one they both performed bad
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,705
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Post by lucas_lee on Nov 14, 2019 15:52:09 GMT -5
Honestly Cody wouldve been a joke entry like Yano in the G1 IMO. His matches were pretty bad in ROH and NJPW and were instant turn offs. I remember walking out of Final Battle 2018 because his match with Jay Lethal was so boring. In AEW hes finally clicking with me and found his niche.
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Post by theshockmaster on Nov 14, 2019 16:42:19 GMT -5
I may have missed it but I can't believe no one has said the Gracie saga in 2014. All those matches were horrible and no one wanted to see it. And they didn't get the hint after even a few terrible matches. Pretty sure they were involved in some capacity in 5 shows.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 14, 2019 16:48:30 GMT -5
In japan the only japanese talent he worked was ibushi. Kenny is great, but even kenny vs jay white was met with tepid reactions Jay White was in his 2nd match in Japan when he beat Kenny The point being the japanese audience knew of Cody because he was around a fair amount showing up after matches and all of that. Dude just didn't click and if you want to go the other way it is actually worse he was able to work Omega and Okada in America and still not really get the reaction here either Those dudes are attractions and we never got to see them live here so they can merely fart in the air and it would drawn the biggest pop
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 14, 2019 16:54:10 GMT -5
Honestly Cody wouldve been a joke entry like Yano in the G1 IMO. His matches were pretty bad in ROH and NJPW and were instant turn offs. I remember walking out of Final Battle 2018 because his match with Jay Lethal was so boring. In AEW hes finally clicking with me and found his niche. Yano serves a purpose tho, he is there to be a breather and a guy who can f*** up the bracket Cody would have been like Tama Tonga, just there. Cody style would have clashed with everyone because while everyone has their off nights, the dog days of the middle of the tournament is when you just work and get through it and even the best of them find that hard.
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Post by ogreknee on Nov 14, 2019 17:08:40 GMT -5
In japan the only japanese talent he worked was ibushi. Kenny is great, but even kenny vs jay white was met with tepid reactions Jay White was in his 2nd match in Japan when he beat Kenny The point being the japanese audience knew of Cody because he was around a fair amount showing up after matches and all of that. Dude just didn't click and if you want to go the other way it is actually worse he was able to work Omega and Okada in America and still not really get the reaction here either Those dudes are attractions and we never got to see them live here so they can merely fart in the air and it would drawn the biggest pop Cody was only an established main eventer in roh. AJ Styles used the bullet club and took on the ace Okada when he came in and also got established via beatdown of okada and promos. Cody could not connect with the fans to that extent except when attacking Ibushi. The fans popped hard for kenny saving kota and the fans reacted. But take out kota and cody has only juice to work while i injured. I think the injury kept cody out of what plans njpw had for him. Too bad. I mean Best Friends were more over than Cody. Who knows why
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Post by honsou on Nov 14, 2019 17:13:53 GMT -5
Kazuyuki Fujita being world champion due to beating Bob Sapp (who was insanely over) in a K-1 fight is the ultimate example of lolnjpw
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Post by ogreknee on Nov 14, 2019 17:15:52 GMT -5
Kazuyuki Fujita being world champion due to beating Bob Sapp (who was insanely over) in a K-1 fight is the ultimate example of lolnjpw That whole k1/pride/bomaye era sucked. I mean at least we had the juniors killing it. Yuji nagata and jun akiyama was cool. I did like how back then we had more interpromotional stuff. Nowadays things are so separated
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Nov 14, 2019 20:15:53 GMT -5
Kazuyuki Fujita being world champion due to beating Bob Sapp (who was insanely over) in a K-1 fight is the ultimate example of lolnjpw That whole k1/pride/bomaye era sucked. I mean at least we had the juniors killing it. Yuji nagata and jun akiyama was cool. I did like how back then we had more interpromotional stuff. Nowadays things are so separated The reason that there was so many interpromotional things going on back then was because the wrestling business in general in Japan was at a low point. PRIDE was pretty much Inokism gone right with only a few less predetermined outcomes and dominated the box office, NJPW lost all 3 Musketeers in the span of 18 months with no native stars ready, AJPW was gutted, and NOAH lost steam because the only heavyweight they built to the main event couldn't handle the pressure. If they didn't work together, all three companies probably would have collapsed.
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Post by Jacy Derangement Syndrome on Nov 14, 2019 20:35:59 GMT -5
Kazuyuki Fujita being world champion due to beating Bob Sapp (who was insanely over) in a K-1 fight is the ultimate example of lolnjpw Honestly the wildest bit about it is that you can kinda see *why* they did it when you watch the fight. Like, it'd be one thing if Sapp lost competitively, but he absolutely did not. That fight is basically CM Punk vs. Mickey Gall but with 10x more horrifying soccer kicks involved.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 14, 2019 20:39:20 GMT -5
Jay White was in his 2nd match in Japan when he beat Kenny The point being the japanese audience knew of Cody because he was around a fair amount showing up after matches and all of that. Dude just didn't click and if you want to go the other way it is actually worse he was able to work Omega and Okada in America and still not really get the reaction here either Those dudes are attractions and we never got to see them live here so they can merely fart in the air and it would drawn the biggest pop Cody was only an established main eventer in roh. AJ Styles used the bullet club and took on the ace Okada when he came in and also got established via beatdown of okada and promos. Cody could not connect with the fans to that extent except when attacking Ibushi. The fans popped hard for kenny saving kota and the fans reacted. But take out kota and cody has only juice to work while i injured. I think the injury kept cody out of what plans njpw had for him. Too bad. I mean Best Friends were more over than Cody. Who knows why Because Cody did not work their style which is why he didn't connect. AJ came in automatically as a big deal and wrestled the style but Cody just didn't connect Cody worked with NJPW essentially for 3 years from 2016 to 2019. He was given the storyline of trying to take BC from Omega and whether in America or Japan he had high profile matches with Omega and Okada that only a select few even get. He had every chance to be that despicable heel and get over there but he just didn't connect Best Friends were over because of Barreta but even then they weren't used all the time.
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nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,011
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Post by nate5054 on Nov 14, 2019 20:46:27 GMT -5
Booking the nasty boys, I think that was the first time I’ve heard the Japanese audience boo at the shit wrestling. That's legitimately hills hilarious to me. I'm not sure if it's something to be proud of ashamed of
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Post by Starshine on Nov 14, 2019 21:26:38 GMT -5
From what I recall the 2005 January 4th show was pretty much a complete disaster. They had a tiny crowd, and only around 10,000 of them actually paid, while the rest were papered. Apart from the Tanahashi/Nakamura main event being good, everything else was flat. It had a weird faux-MMA tournament in the middle of the card. A strange three way, which basically ended up being two singles singles matches. Then a bunch of nothing beneath those.
New Japan has come a loooooong way.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Nov 14, 2019 21:30:05 GMT -5
From what I recall the 2005 January 4th show was pretty much a complete disaster. They had a tiny crowd, and only around 10,000 of them actually paid, while the rest were papered. Apart from the Tanahashi/Nakamura main event being good, everything else was flat. It had a weird faux-MMA tournament in the middle of the card. A strange three way, which basically ended up being two singles singles matches. Then a bunch of nothing beneath those. New Japan has come a loooooong way. Nakanishi vs. Yano in a shoot-style match sounds like what I'd book in EWR an hour after eating a second edible
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Post by ogreknee on Nov 15, 2019 1:40:12 GMT -5
That whole k1/pride/bomaye era sucked. I mean at least we had the juniors killing it. Yuji nagata and jun akiyama was cool. I did like how back then we had more interpromotional stuff. Nowadays things are so separated The reason that there was so many interpromotional things going on back then was because the wrestling business in general in Japan was at a low point. PRIDE was pretty much Inokism gone right with only a few less predetermined outcomes and dominated the box office, NJPW lost all 3 Musketeers in the span of 18 months with no native stars ready, AJPW was gutted, and NOAH lost steam because the only heavyweight they built to the main event couldn't handle the pressure. If they didn't work together, all three companies probably would have collapsed. Poor rikio never had a chance I think once njpw went to yuke's and then eventually bushi road they righted in building up the talents and creating their identity as the destination for pro wrestling. In the nineties new japan was the most successful promotion in the world money wise. The 00s was their low point until tanahashi and nakamura ascended. Once they built back up and they cemented okada as the man. They blossomed. I think what new japan learned from the low attendence in long beach was that american audience expected different things. They had a lot of us fill out surveys. Including questions like what we wanted. Like women wrestlers and more native japanese on the card. Big singles matches. This was msg and dallas Bushi road took this. That is a big part of why they got stardom to appeal to the sensibilities of western audiences who wanted. So the next wrestlemania weekend show will probably have stardom matches.
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Post by corndog on Nov 15, 2019 10:22:37 GMT -5
The reason that there was so many interpromotional things going on back then was because the wrestling business in general in Japan was at a low point. PRIDE was pretty much Inokism gone right with only a few less predetermined outcomes and dominated the box office, NJPW lost all 3 Musketeers in the span of 18 months with no native stars ready, AJPW was gutted, and NOAH lost steam because the only heavyweight they built to the main event couldn't handle the pressure. If they didn't work together, all three companies probably would have collapsed. Poor rikio never had a chance I think once njpw went to yuke's and then eventually bushi road they righted in building up the talents and creating their identity as the destination for pro wrestling. In the nineties new japan was the most successful promotion in the world money wise. The 00s was their low point until tanahashi and nakamura ascended. Once they built back up and they cemented okada as the man. They blossomed. I think what new japan learned from the low attendence in long beach was that american audience expected different things. They had a lot of us fill out surveys. Including questions like what we wanted. Like women wrestlers and more native japanese on the card. Big singles matches. This was msg and dallas Bushi road took this. That is a big part of why they got stardom to appeal to the sensibilities of western audiences who wanted. So the next wrestlemania weekend show will probably have stardom matches. One thing for certain is since Bushiroad's takeover of New Japan, they have proven they know what they are doing and running it like a business. Slow sustainable growth and actually listening to the fans. Losing the Elite certainly hurt their drawing power in the US, but by giving the audience here what they want, eventually they will build it back. They have had their setbacks and booking has not been perfect, but overall they have kept the quality of product up and actually this year has been really good. Back to the subject on hand, Naito's booking at WK12 and the following year as an afterthought were pretty bad. If he doesn't win at the Tokyo Dome this year, I feel the fans will lose complete faith in him and that would be disappointing considering his massive popularity. But at least they were smart enough to put him back into the picture. The other is pretty much the entire booking the second half of 2018, it was such a mess. Tanahashi's surprise G1 was the one saving grace, but other than that I just wanted to get Wrestle Kingdom over with and see the aftermath knowing the Elite would be leaving. Thankfully the product improved greatly this year after that transitional period and this year's G1 was back to where it should be.
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Post by Jacy Derangement Syndrome on Nov 15, 2019 13:18:08 GMT -5
From what I recall the 2005 January 4th show was pretty much a complete disaster. They had a tiny crowd, and only around 10,000 of them actually paid, while the rest were papered. Apart from the Tanahashi/Nakamura main event being good, everything else was flat. It had a weird faux-MMA tournament in the middle of the card. A strange three way, which basically ended up being two singles singles matches. Then a bunch of nothing beneath those. New Japan has come a loooooong way. Nakanishi vs. Yano in a shoot-style match sounds like what I'd book in EWR an hour after eating a second edible I need help because I can't stop thinking about Yano coming out for a match like this and screaming the entire instrumental of the Brawl 4 All theme and selling DVDs with his angry face on
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 15, 2019 13:33:22 GMT -5
Before they started to rebuild Goto with his NEVER run, his f***ing titantron was him getting his ass whooped
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