adamclark52
El Dandy
I'm one with the Force; the Force is with me
Posts: 8,139
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Post by adamclark52 on Jun 14, 2020 16:08:38 GMT -5
It’s almost as if they had no clue what they were doing
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jun 14, 2020 18:43:05 GMT -5
The funny thing is that Hayden is now beloved in SW fan circles. Probably because he's apparently super-nice at all the fan encounters at conventions and SW Celebrations. And it probably also has to do with the growing up of the generation of kids who loved the prequels filtering into the fandom. I also think hindsight's been more kind to him with the realization that the bad acting in the prequels is more the fault of George Lucas than the actors.
I do think it would've been neat if Force Ghost Anakin showed up to both Ben and Rey. Build that up as another part of the dyad.
Very true, but equally its not the people going to conventions and Celebration who are the ones dishing out the vast majority of the hate. Given how obsessed Ben was with Vader, it's really quite surprising that at least one scene of Anakin's ghost showing up wasn't in one of these movies. It seems like they were so f***ing dead set against doing this to a baffling degree. If you're going to cram as much fanservice as you did in anyway, like, why not? I can't imagine Hayden's asking price was astronomical. In their rabid PREQUELS BAD, EXTENDED UNIVERSE BAD stance, they proceeded to make things worse by not embracing all of Star Wars outside of a ten second Darth Maul cameo in a bad movie.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2020 7:05:28 GMT -5
It’s almost as if they had no clue what they were doing More like this.... We should have listened to Rich Evans.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 15, 2020 9:00:03 GMT -5
As funny as Red Letter Media has been in the past, they wouldn't have liked it regardless.
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,866
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Post by chrom on Jun 15, 2020 9:38:37 GMT -5
It’s almost as if they had no clue what they were doing That sums up everything Disney has done with Star Wars since they bought it from Lucas 11 years ago.
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Post by BorneAgain on Jun 15, 2020 9:51:40 GMT -5
Is amazing to think back around circa 2011 and realize that almost 10 years later between the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy that the world was once abuzz for and a Planet of the Apes reboot series that virtually everyone was initially skeptical/indifferent for, it was the latter that proved to be consistently better executed and concluded.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jun 15, 2020 12:11:11 GMT -5
As funny as Red Letter Media has been in the past, they wouldn't have liked it regardless. Yeah, a lot of their stuff on more "hot button" franchises lately have felt a bit too much like pandering to their audience. I get it, YouTube algorithm gonna algorith and gotta get those clicks, but they're clearly in such a better mood and, to me at least, more entertaining when they're either talking about lesser known movies or random schlock, or else discussing the bigger tentpole stuff in a more relaxed way.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 15, 2020 12:19:02 GMT -5
Very true, but equally its not the people going to conventions and Celebration who are the ones dishing out the vast majority of the hate. Given how obsessed Ben was with Vader, it's really quite surprising that at least one scene of Anakin's ghost showing up wasn't in one of these movies. It seems like they were so f***ing dead set against doing this to a baffling degree. If you're going to cram as much fanservice as you did in anyway, like, why not? I can't imagine Hayden's asking price was astronomical. In their rabid PREQUELS BAD, EXTENDED UNIVERSE BAD stance, they proceeded to make things worse by not embracing all of Star Wars outside of a ten second Darth Maul cameo in a bad movie. It's kind of like WB's SCRAPPY BAD phase for the Scooby-Doo franchise. Started as a reaction to the fandom's "popular opinion," but they made it worse somehow by giving the character the Benoit treatment, after they turned him into a REALLY unlikable character when they did use him (the villain in the live action movie, for instance). Only in recent years do they seem OK mentioning Scrappy and making his episodes available. Another example? When WWE and Ultimate Warrior were not getting along. They took what fans said/knew about him and amplified it with that DVD. Hearing how Hayden is as a person kind of tapers off my opinions about him. Being the "best" actors doesn't always make you the best people.
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Post by Cela on Jun 15, 2020 12:22:45 GMT -5
The funny thing is that Hayden is now beloved in SW fan circles. Probably because he's apparently super-nice at all the fan encounters at conventions and SW Celebrations. And it probably also has to do with the growing up of the generation of kids who loved the prequels filtering into the fandom. I also think hindsight's been more kind to him with the realization that the bad acting in the prequels is more the fault of George Lucas than the actors.
I do think it would've been neat if Force Ghost Anakin showed up to both Ben and Rey. Build that up as another part of the dyad.
Very true, but equally its not the people going to conventions and Celebration who are the ones dishing out the vast majority of the hate. Given how obsessed Ben was with Vader, it's really quite surprising that at least one scene of Anakin's ghost showing up wasn't in one of these movies. That much ANGST can't be contained on one screen.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jun 15, 2020 12:54:21 GMT -5
As funny as Red Letter Media has been in the past, they wouldn't have liked it regardless. Yeah, a lot of their stuff on more "hot button" franchises lately have felt a bit too much like pandering to their audience. I get it, YouTube algorithm gonna algorith and gotta get those clicks, but they're clearly in such a better mood and, to me at least, more entertaining when they're either talking about lesser known movies or random schlock, or else discussing the bigger tentpole stuff in a more relaxed way. I stopped watching eventually as Jay not liking ANYTHING seemingly just made me bored of the channel. Too much negativity.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Jun 15, 2020 13:09:04 GMT -5
Is amazing to think back around circa 2011 and realize that almost 10 years later between the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy that the world was once abuzz for and a Planet of the Apes reboot series that virtually everyone was initially skeptical/indifferent for, it was the latter that proved to be consistently better executed and concluded. It’s astounding really. And we live in a world now where, whether ironically or not, the prequels are looked on more favorably than the rollercoaster coming off the tracks that was the sequel trilogy. I completely admit I swallowed the Disney pill. I thought it was better off without Lucas (still arguable) and was enamored with TFA but..well. Yeah. And what’s crazy is that a lot of people called it. Like amazingly accurately. And a lot of those voices were equally shot down as well. Very true, but equally its not the people going to conventions and Celebration who are the ones dishing out the vast majority of the hate. Given how obsessed Ben was with Vader, it's really quite surprising that at least one scene of Anakin's ghost showing up wasn't in one of these movies. That much ANGST can't be contained on one screen. All that pouting. All that smolder. Commiserating on how the girl they like just doesn’t understand them.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jun 15, 2020 13:36:27 GMT -5
It’s astounding really. And we live in a world now where, whether ironically or not, the prequels are looked on more favorably than the rollercoaster coming off the tracks that was the sequel trilogy. I completely admit I swallowed the Disney pill. I thought it was better off without Lucas (still arguable) and was enamored with TFA but..well. Yeah. And what’s crazy is that a lot of people called it. Like amazingly accurately. And a lot of those voices were equally shot down as well. For the most part the hate for both the prequels and the sequels is massively overblown, and I say that as someone who has very little love for the prequels. And Star Wars is definitely better off without Lucas.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Jun 15, 2020 13:47:56 GMT -5
It’s astounding really. And we live in a world now where, whether ironically or not, the prequels are looked on more favorably than the rollercoaster coming off the tracks that was the sequel trilogy. I completely admit I swallowed the Disney pill. I thought it was better off without Lucas (still arguable) and was enamored with TFA but..well. Yeah. And what’s crazy is that a lot of people called it. Like amazingly accurately. And a lot of those voices were equally shot down as well. For the most part the hate for both the prequels and the sequels is massively overblown, and I say that as someone who has very little love for the prequels. And Star Wars is definitely better off without Lucas. *shrugs* I think both trilogies sucked in their own wonderful ways. I agree with the latter but again, different strokes, different folks.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 15, 2020 14:01:16 GMT -5
It’s almost as if they had no clue what they were doing That sums up everything Disney has done with Star Wars since they bought it from Lucas 11 years ago. Rebels, Rogue One, The Mandalorian, and the last season of Clone Wars would disagree with that. Galaxy's Edge and a lot of the new SW books and comics are really good, too. If anything, Disney's handled most of their stewardship of the franchise really well, which makes the missteps made with the sequel trilogy more baffling.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jun 15, 2020 14:30:40 GMT -5
That sums up everything Disney has done with Star Wars since they bought it from Lucas 11 years ago. Rebels, Rogue One, The Mandalorian, and the last season of Clone Wars would disagree with that. Galaxy's Edge and a lot of the new SW books and comics are really good, too. If anything, Disney's handled most of their stewardship of the franchise really well, which makes the missteps made with the sequel trilogy more baffling. Even the missteps with the sequel trilogy don't come to a head until the third movie, though it is quite evident they didn't have a plan for the entire trilogy. TFA was overly-safe but otherwise solid, TLJ was a strong follow up, and then LucasFilm shit the bed hard in an effort to please Reddit rather than stay the course with Trevorrow's script, which looks better and better with each rewatch of TROS. Solo is really the only other misstep they've made, and even that resulted in a movie that was better than any of the prequels.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 15, 2020 14:33:58 GMT -5
TBH, I still think what I've seen of Trevorrow's script sounds pretty lousy. I'm not sure if it would've been worse than what we got with Abrams and Terrio as we don't know how the final draft would've come out when put to film. But it didn't sound good.
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Post by BorneAgain on Jun 15, 2020 14:54:32 GMT -5
Honestly I think Disney SW has been fine outside the main films. Solo & Rogue One have their weaknesses but are enjoyable enough, animated series have been solid, and Mandalorian was great. The sequel movies are fascinating in that unlike the prequels (which all suffered from largely the same issues) 7-9 all have differing problems.
Force Awakens is too derivative of the original films and has Rey feeling underwritten in comparison to Finn. Last Jedi is an interesting when viewed as a standalone but suffers structurally in following up the previous movie or setting up the next one. Rise of Skywalker has ridiculous pacing and throws everything in rapid-fire fashion to hastily finish off the story.
At the very least they'll make for some interesting analysis in the years to come.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jun 15, 2020 15:02:10 GMT -5
Personally, in the end I feel like the main issue is that there was never really a need for there to be more than three Star Wars films. I really came to dislike the phrase "Skywalker Saga" because, well...there was never really such an idea in mind. It was made up as everyone went along; Lucas didn't really have a plan until he decided it was time to cash in circa 1997, and Disney clearly had no plan at all. The prequels now get some retroactive praise for at least feeling like they were attempting to be about something and just failing to execute, in this case a story of how a seemingly eternal democracy can quickly devolve into authoritarianism under the right circumstances, but it doesn't change that aside from "there was a Republic, there were Jedi, and Obi Wan and Anakin fought on a lava planet where Anakin got all burned up" there really was nothing else sketched out before Lucas began drafting The Phantom Menace. Disney saw all the money in the world in giving Star Wars fans the style and atmosphere they loved, but they took the three biggest movies and decided there didn't need to be a three-movie narrative in place...after announcing there'd be three movies telling a single story. It's baffling. I won't pretend to know a ton else about how the property has been handled, as I've heard good stuff about their TV show output and comics but found myself kind of feeling "eh" towards Rogue One, but the need to be "STAR WARS, THE BIGGEST FILM FRANCHISE IMAGINABLE" really hurts the creativity that can go into the film side of Star Wars, since it leads to a need to appease so many people, put in a bunch of fan service, and generally tell "safer" stories...I know, Rogue One's ending isn't considered "safe", but it still could've been a lot more interesting, to me.
That all said, there's no getting around that so much of the worst fan anger and what have you has most frequently come from pretty freaking toxic corners of the fandom and internet, in general, for reasons we're all familiar with at this point. The last truly great Star Wars film was made in 1980; if you're still belly aching and screaming and ranting and raving about Kathleen Kennedy or whomever at this point, you just haven't been paying attention.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Jun 15, 2020 15:04:15 GMT -5
TBH, I still think what I've seen of Trevorrow's script sounds pretty lousy. I'm not sure if it would've been worse than what we got with Abrams and Terrio as we don't know how the final draft would've come out when put to film. But it didn't sound good. I think it would've been underwhelming, but I'll take underwhelming over the dumpster fire we got.
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Post by BorneAgain on Jun 15, 2020 15:04:34 GMT -5
Personally, in the end I feel like the main issue is that there was never really a need for there to be more than three Star Wars films. I really came to dislike the phrase "Skywalker Saga" because, well...there was never really such an idea in mind. It was made up as everyone went along; Lucas didn't really have a plan until he decided it was time to cash in circa 1997, and Disney clearly had no plan at all. The prequels now get some retroactive praise for at least feeling like they were attempting to be about something and just failing to execute, in this case a story of how a seemingly eternal democracy can quickly devolve into authoritarianism under the right circumstances, but it doesn't change that aside from "there was a Republic, there were Jedi, and Obi Wan and Anakin fought on a lava planet where Anakin got all burned up" there really was nothing else sketched out before Lucas began drafting The Phantom Menace. Disney saw all the money in the world in giving Star Wars fans the style and atmosphere they loved, but they took the three biggest movies and decided there didn't need to be a three-movie narrative in place...after announcing there'd be three movies telling a single story. It's baffling. I won't pretend to know a ton else about how the property has been handled, as I've heard good stuff about their TV show output and comics but found myself kind of feeling "eh" towards Rogue One, but the need to be "STAR WARS, THE BIGGEST FILM FRANCHISE IMAGINABLE" really hurts the creativity that can go into the film side of Star Wars. That all said, there's no getting around that so much of the worst fan anger and what have you has most frequently come from pretty freaking toxic corners of the fandom and internet, in general, for reasons we're all familiar with at this point. The last truly great Star Wars film was made in 1980; if you're still belly aching and screaming and ranting and raving about Kathleen Kennedy or whomever at this point, you just haven't been paying attention. Honestly there are many big series that were probably never really meant to be franchises that have suffered in terms of film to film quality from the need to have cinematic universes. If we never got any additional films after the first two Alien and Terminator movies, would we really be that much worse off?
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