Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,366
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Feb 17, 2020 21:20:01 GMT -5
So you begin with the blanket statement that Star Wars fans are whiny bitches who complain about anything, and then the strawman that they apparently demand perfection, yet you criticise Episodes I, II, III for being underdeveloped, believe Episode VIII should have been a mini-series, that Episode VII is a superior remake of the first of the original trilogy which is simplistic and cliched, and blame the fans for the failure of the anthology series without even mentioning the chaotic mess that was the production of the Han Solo movie? I have to admit that I got interrupted while I was writing that. I meant to say that none of the movies were perfect but that is fine and I can enjoy them all just fine. That is a key point that I forgot to mention.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Feb 17, 2020 21:25:08 GMT -5
There was absolutely no reason for Solo to have its reported $300 million budget. Giving a spin-off movie like that that kind of budget would be like someone at Marvel going "well Infinity War made a Gajillion Dollars at the box office, there's no reason Ant-Man and the Wasp can't do the same, up their budget to $300 million as well". Suddenly Ant-Man and the Wasp's modestly successful $400 million box office (off a $75 million budget) turns into a dismal failure. If Solo had a more appropriate budget of around $100-150 million, we'd be looking back on it much more favorably right now. If they'd stuck with Lord and Miller as directors we'd probably have seen the same box office numbers, but made on that $150 million budget. Reshooting some 70% of the movie under Ron Howard is where the budget doubled, and while the end product is a serviceable movie (perhaps even an underrated one), it never had a hope in hell of pulling in the numbers needed to make it worth releasing. Maybe if they had convinced Harrison Ford to do it, and used their digital trickery to shave 50 years off him while somehow making him look like he gave a shit... but I'm pretty sure technology hasn't advanced that far yet. Shave 50 years off... They couldn’t even get Ford to shave or cut his hair for Rise of Skywalker.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Feb 17, 2020 21:26:57 GMT -5
There was absolutely no reason for Solo to have its reported $300 million budget. Giving a spin-off movie like that that kind of budget would be like someone at Marvel going "well Infinity War made a Gajillion Dollars at the box office, there's no reason Ant-Man and the Wasp can't do the same, up their budget to $300 million as well". Suddenly Ant-Man and the Wasp's modestly successful $400 million box office (off a $75 million budget) turns into a dismal failure. If Solo had a more appropriate budget of around $100-150 million, we'd be looking back on it much more favorably right now. If they'd stuck with Lord and Miller as directors we'd probably have seen the same box office numbers, but made on that $150 million budget. Reshooting some 70% of the movie under Ron Howard is where the budget doubled, and while the end product is a serviceable movie (perhaps even an underrated one), it never had a hope in hell of pulling in the numbers needed to make it worth releasing. Maybe if they had convinced Harrison Ford to do it, and used their digital trickery to shave 50 years off him while somehow making him look like he gave a shit... but I'm pretty sure technology hasn't advanced that far yet. I don't think there is enough money in the world to bring Ford back as Han.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Feb 17, 2020 21:54:52 GMT -5
So are football fans. What's your point?
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Feb 18, 2020 0:27:45 GMT -5
So are football fans. What's your point? Don't be a fan? Kevin Hamilton on the last page makes a fine point: like stuff, be passionate about stuff, love stuff, but do not define yourself, your sense of self, your identity, by the stuff you consume. There's a world of difference between saying something like "I like pizza" or "I love Star Wars" and "I am a pizza fan" or "I am a Star Wars fan."
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Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,717
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Post by Glitch on Feb 18, 2020 4:24:20 GMT -5
It goes the other way too. There are Star Wars fans who think there is no such thing as a bad Star Wars movie, and that you're not a real fan if you show even one ounce of criticism.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Feb 18, 2020 13:44:29 GMT -5
It goes the other way too. There are Star Wars fans who think there is no such thing as a bad Star Wars movie, and that you're not a real fan if you show even one ounce of criticism. I wish I could like this 66 more times.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Feb 18, 2020 14:34:06 GMT -5
So are football fans. What's your point? Don't be a fan? Kevin Hamilton on the last page makes a fine point: like stuff, be passionate about stuff, love stuff, but do not define yourself, your sense of self, your identity, by the stuff you consume. There's a world of difference between saying something like "I like pizza" or "I love Star Wars" and "I am a pizza fan" or "I am a Star Wars fan." I don't agree with this at all. It's basically the suggestion that people are inherently wrong for having certain special interests they hold dear. To you that may sound logical, to me it sounds robotic and dead inside. Let me tell you, dude. I love the X-Men. I love the original Ghostbusters. I love Ninja Turtles. I love Star Wars. Yet, I've never verbally assaulted anyone. Never sent slurs and death threats to actors on social media. Never signed a petition to get a movie cancelled or remade. Blanketing all of us like assholes as in the original post is bullshit.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 18, 2020 14:42:16 GMT -5
There was absolutely no reason for Solo to have its reported $300 million budget. Giving a spin-off movie like that that kind of budget would be like someone at Marvel going "well Infinity War made a Gajillion Dollars at the box office, there's no reason Ant-Man and the Wasp can't do the same, up their budget to $300 million as well". Suddenly Ant-Man and the Wasp's modestly successful $400 million box office (off a $75 million budget) turns into a dismal failure. If Solo had a more appropriate budget of around $100-150 million, we'd be looking back on it much more favorably right now. If they'd stuck with Lord and Miller as directors we'd probably have seen the same box office numbers, but made on that $150 million budget. Reshooting some 70% of the movie under Ron Howard is where the budget doubled, and while the end product is a serviceable movie (perhaps even an underrated one), it never had a hope in hell of pulling in the numbers needed to make it worth releasing. Maybe if they had convinced Harrison Ford to do it, and used their digital trickery to shave 50 years off him while somehow making him look like he gave a shit... but I'm pretty sure technology hasn't advanced that far yet. If The Irishman is anything to go by with its attempt to do just that with Robert de Niro, no it hasn't.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Feb 18, 2020 14:50:44 GMT -5
If they'd stuck with Lord and Miller as directors we'd probably have seen the same box office numbers, but made on that $150 million budget. Reshooting some 70% of the movie under Ron Howard is where the budget doubled, and while the end product is a serviceable movie (perhaps even an underrated one), it never had a hope in hell of pulling in the numbers needed to make it worth releasing. Maybe if they had convinced Harrison Ford to do it, and used their digital trickery to shave 50 years off him while somehow making him look like he gave a shit... but I'm pretty sure technology hasn't advanced that far yet. If The Irishman is anything to go by with its attempt to do just that with Robert de Niro, no it hasn't.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Feb 18, 2020 15:00:32 GMT -5
If The Irishman is anything to go by with its attempt to do just that with Robert de Niro, no it hasn't. That's equal parts hilarious and depressing.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 18, 2020 17:44:24 GMT -5
As Star Wars becomes a full-on extended universe out of Lucas's hands, it becomes grossly apparent how little actual information or consistency is in Star Wars.
I liked Last Jedi a lot when I first watched it, but I rewatched it at Christmas and there's a bit where someone says 'God help us' or something and I think I just broke the entire IP for myself when I asked myself... which God is that, then?
And suddenly I realised Star Wars doesn't really have any answers to the questions that you can ask about Trek, or Harry Potter even, fantasy or sci-fi, these worlds tend to have rules, and Star Wars just doesn't. And the ones it does have, they've been desperately trying to ignore since they wrested the property from Lucas.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 18, 2020 17:46:44 GMT -5
There are degrees between really liking something and letting it define who you are as a person though to the point of irrationality and real anger.
Hell as an example, I've got a Spider-Man inspired tattoo and all One More Day did was make me stop reading the book for a while
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Post by Cyno on Feb 18, 2020 17:52:08 GMT -5
As Star Wars becomes a full-on extended universe out of Lucas's hands, it becomes grossly apparent how little actual information or consistency is in Star Wars. I liked Last Jedi a lot when I first watched it, but I rewatched it at Christmas and there's a bit where someone says 'God help us' or something and I think I just broke the entire IP for myself when I asked myself... which God is that, then? And suddenly I realised Star Wars doesn't really have any answers to the questions that you can ask about Trek, or Harry Potter even, fantasy or sci-fi, these worlds tend to have rules, and Star Wars just doesn't. And the ones it does have, they've been desperately trying to ignore since they wrested the property from Lucas. That goes back to the original trilogy when Han told some dude "Then I'll see you in Hell!" at Echo Base in Empire Strikes Back. It took some now-Legends book released decades later to say "Oh, Hell is where Corellians believe bad people go in the afterlife."
Star Wars has never really been big on consistency between movies, whether it's in Lucas' hands or Disney's hands. The prequels probably came the closest to achieving just that because Lucas had a planned trilogy in mind versus the original trilogy being made by the seat of his pants or Disney for some reason following that model for the sequel trilogy.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Feb 18, 2020 17:56:19 GMT -5
I liked Last Jedi a lot when I first watched it, but I rewatched it at Christmas and there's a bit where someone says 'God help us' or something and I think I just broke the entire IP for myself when I asked myself... which God is that, then? It was "Godspeed", and I didn't care for it. Didn't care for Han saying "I'll see you in Hell" in Empire, either. Is that the Judeo-Christian Hell? Norse Hel?
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Post by Fake Jesus on Feb 18, 2020 17:59:47 GMT -5
The Star Wars sequels are very mediocre and that's borne out in their rapidly diminishing box office. The ahem "whiny bitches" are on your side because they care enough about the movies to get worked up. An increasing number of people just don't one way or the other.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Feb 18, 2020 18:41:51 GMT -5
Star Wars isn't the spectacle or event it once was to your casual moviegoer. Something like Avengers has claimed that. Though it will be interesting to see if Marvel can keep that up through this next slate of movies or if Endgame was a culmination/jumping off point for a lot of folks.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 18, 2020 19:51:01 GMT -5
The Star Wars sequels are very mediocre and that's borne out in their rapidly diminishing box office. The ahem "whiny bitches" are on your side because they care enough about the movies to get worked up. An increasing number of people just don't one way or the other. To be fair, every Star Wars movie in their respective trilogies has made significantly less than its predecessors except for Revenge of the Sith. TLJ and TROS followed similar trends to ESB and ROTJ.
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Post by Fake Jesus on Feb 18, 2020 20:20:14 GMT -5
The Star Wars sequels are very mediocre and that's borne out in their rapidly diminishing box office. The ahem "whiny bitches" are on your side because they care enough about the movies to get worked up. An increasing number of people just don't one way or the other. To be fair, every Star Wars movie in their respective trilogies has made significantly less than its predecessors except for Revenge of the Sith. TLJ and TROS followed similar trends to ESB and ROTJ. Declining returns for franchise movies was how the market operated in the 70s and 80s. It's not how it generally tends to operate now, the expectation is that every tentpole film in a franchise should either exceed or get within spitting distance of the previous. TFA grossed 2 Billion. It's the fourth highest grossing movie of all time, adjusted. For TROS to make half that (Coming in at the absolute height of its hype thanks to the young Yoda) and be outgrossed by Rogue One, represents a significant failure for Disney. Their plans were to clearly have Star Wars as a second Marvel-sized franchise, and they've mismanaged the franchise to the extent that they're now forced to take a break from Star Wars movies to prevent a permanent billion-dollar ceiling for the franchise.
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