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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jun 18, 2020 20:20:15 GMT -5
Yeah maybe it's just the shock from EVERYTHING THE HELL ELSE going on but. I don't know, dude needs to apologize and right himself, make amends. But if he can do that, I wouldn't put him in the same level as the many dudes who need to be out immediately.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 18, 2020 21:08:26 GMT -5
Yeah maybe it's just the shock from EVERYTHING THE HELL ELSE going on but. I don't know, dude needs to apologize and right himself, make amends. But if he can do that, I wouldn't put him in the same level as the many dudes who need to be out immediately. I agree with that. He was clearly an asshole in the wrong... but compared to everything else, own up, apologize, say you're changing or doing your best to change. He by all accounts seems to be in a much better situation than before living with Kip. But yeah, today's been f***ed.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Jun 18, 2020 21:11:46 GMT -5
Yeah, I take this as him being shitty, but it's more of a "get help" situation than a "go away forever" situation.
Obviously the man is not well, and that doesn't at all excuse his terrible behavior but it's not quite right to treat him like a monster.
If I'm Tony Khan I would mandate regular counseling for him, and warn him about his conduct outside of the ring.
Also this makes his use of "Hospital for Souls" in his promo material for Progress a bit harsher in hindsight.
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Venti
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Post by Venti on Jun 18, 2020 22:09:25 GMT -5
Damn, this one really hits home, because this is exactly how my ex was to me.
Sounds like he really needs some serious help if he's not already getting it.
What a freaking crazy week for wrestling this is, and it's probably not even close to being over yet.
My heart goes out to everyone who has had to put up with such f***ery.
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markymark
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Post by markymark on Jun 18, 2020 22:45:46 GMT -5
I wouldnt be shocked if Kip and Penelope beg TK to not fire Jimmy.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jun 18, 2020 23:04:38 GMT -5
This is a hard case for me. First of all, no one is entitled to a job, especially one as public as professional wrestling. If you bring bad publicity in or make people feel uncomfortable, then that's more than enough ground to fire someone. And by the sounds of it, Jimmy treated her horribly. I guess where I hesitate is that I dated someone who treated me the same way. She had a lot of underlying issues and she was in constant pain. I felt for her and I never blamed her because I knew she was suffering. That does not excuse the behavior but I ultimately had no ill will towards her when we broke up. I still want her to be happy to this day. That's not to say that someone in the same position can't feel differently. I just know that this kind of behavior, especially with the self harm, comes from a dark place. My hope is that Jimmy is in a better place now and feels comfortable owning up to this. He may very well be a bad person but I have a lot of empathy for him and just hope this turns out okay for all involved.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jun 18, 2020 23:18:16 GMT -5
Yeh I hope they dont fire him straight away,not because I think its okay but maybe he is in a better place and this could spiral down like crazy if he loses everything.
I definitely would approve mandatory therapy and an apology to her tho.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Jun 19, 2020 0:22:28 GMT -5
I'm shaking reading that post and this thread. What he did to her was absolutely terrible and she's incredibly strong for surviving it.
He abused her. That's absolutely abuse and no underlying issue with him excuses it. f*** him for not getting help sooner for the condition that makes him act such a way and inflecting trauma on others.
Let's not dismiss this or make this trauma somehow "lesser than" what else has surfaced. Abuse is abuse.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 19, 2020 0:37:50 GMT -5
I'm shaking reading that post and this thread. What he did to her was absolutely terrible and she's incredibly strong for surviving it. He abused her. That's absolutely abuse and no underlying issue with him excuses it. f*** him for not getting help sooner for the condition that makes him act such a way and inflecting trauma on others. Let's not dismiss this or make this trauma somehow "lesser than" what else has surfaced. Abuse is abuse. No one's dismissing it, but saying this is all equal is also being reductive.
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Post by Starshine on Jun 19, 2020 0:42:45 GMT -5
I'm shaking reading that post and this thread. What he did to her was absolutely terrible and she's incredibly strong for surviving it. He abused her. That's absolutely abuse and no underlying issue with him excuses it. f*** him for not getting help sooner for the condition that makes him act such a way and inflecting trauma on others. Let's not dismiss this or make this trauma somehow "lesser than" what else has surfaced. Abuse is abuse. But no two examples of abuse will ever be weighed exactly the same. It's not lessening than anything to see that. Different forms of abuse come from different sources, and should be handled appropriately based on the circumstances involved and damage inflicted. Mind you, this is not a defence for what Jimmy did. But we can't just lump everyone who does this in the exact same pile and call it a day.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jun 19, 2020 0:55:19 GMT -5
I'm shaking reading that post and this thread. What he did to her was absolutely terrible and she's incredibly strong for surviving it. He abused her. That's absolutely abuse and no underlying issue with him excuses it. f*** him for not getting help sooner for the condition that makes him act such a way and inflecting trauma on others. Let's not dismiss this or make this trauma somehow "lesser than" what else has surfaced. Abuse is abuse. No one's dismissing it, but saying this is all equal is also being reductive. I feel like someone that has lived with people that suffered of untreated mental illness I feel safe to speak on the subject that yeh it is not all equal. Will I ever forgive her?No,part of me will always hate her,did she got better with help?Yes and if people had just left her life I could see that she would have a complete breakdown,which is not something I would want even with all the abuse. There is a point if the person refuses help,you leave then alone and consequences be damned, but it should not be first instinct.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 19, 2020 0:57:17 GMT -5
I'm shaking reading that post and this thread. What he did to her was absolutely terrible and she's incredibly strong for surviving it. He abused her. That's absolutely abuse and no underlying issue with him excuses it. f*** him for not getting help sooner for the condition that makes him act such a way and inflecting trauma on others. Let's not dismiss this or make this trauma somehow "lesser than" what else has surfaced. Abuse is abuse. No one's dismissing it, but saying this is all equal is also being reductive. And in Jimmy Havoc's case, I'm worried that given his demons, outright firing him without addressing his mental health issues could have some dangerous, if not outright lethal consequences for himself and/or others like Kip Sabien and Penelope Ford (who IIRC, he's living with since quarantine started).
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Jun 19, 2020 1:00:13 GMT -5
You're all right. I'm sorry. I guess this is particularly triggering for me because I've endured the same abuse from a partner that's described here and it's something so rarely discussed openly.
I had a partner who would write off her abuse on her own mental illness and then make her self-abuse my fault. I've tried typing in more detail about it here, but even though it was four years ago I really can't finish it and share.
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Jun 19, 2020 1:14:58 GMT -5
Him having issues doesn't negate him causing someone to have a complete breakdown. It's extremely messed up that he threatened suicide to her and I do think he's on the level of the others named.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 19, 2020 1:23:30 GMT -5
For me this kind of mental abuse is terrible because I've had friends go through this kind of shit, so I don't take it lightly, but I also don't want to just throw Havoc into the same category as the others who have been accused today because for all it seems to be, Havoc is very much trying to better himself now, he has a support system now, and maybe he does deeply regret the shit he did
People can change, and sometimes it takes a lot for them to in fact do that, and realize they're the ones who were indeed in the wrong. I'm pretty sure anyone close to Havoc knows how he was to his wife and wouldn't associate with him if he was still that same person. God knows Kip and Penelope wouldn't have him as a housemate.
I don't excuse the actions of Havoc, this behavior does need to be addressed so I'm glad his ex came out about it, but I also don't think it reflects the Jimmy Havoc we see today, at least I would hope not.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 19, 2020 1:30:48 GMT -5
You're all right. I'm sorry. I guess this is particularly triggering for me because I've endured the same abuse from a partner that's described here and it's something so rarely discussed openly. I had a partner who would write off her abuse on her own mental illness and then make her self-abuse my fault. I've tried typing in more detail about it here, but even though it was four years ago I really can't finish it and share. A lot of us have been there. Glad you're out of that situation.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Jun 19, 2020 2:09:20 GMT -5
Jimmy can go, but please leave us the blood tuxedo.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jun 19, 2020 2:50:45 GMT -5
I've written and then erased a lot of posts as I try to figure out how to put the complex feelings I have on the issue, as someone who grew up watching domestic abuse happen and then was in an emotionally abusive relationship himself, but I can only apply to this judgment the same thing I apply to my own abuser; never wanting to see them again under any circumstances, never wanting to be around any of that, but hoping they get better and stop being such a toxic shell of a person. Something like this, horrible as it is, stands out to me as a product of a time and a place. There's people who are abusive because they aren't well and even if they don't mean to, things get ugly, and there's people who are abusive because they're looking for someone to control. Neither is ideal, but one is significantly worse in my eyes than the other, because the other can be treatable.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jun 19, 2020 3:36:34 GMT -5
You're all right. I'm sorry. I guess this is particularly triggering for me because I've endured the same abuse from a partner that's described here and it's something so rarely discussed openly. I had a partner who would write off her abuse on her own mental illness and then make her self-abuse my fault. I've tried typing in more detail about it here, but even though it was four years ago I really can't finish it and share. Nobody has any desire to invalidate your experiences and thankyou for sharing it. I've been through a lot of the stuff described with more than one partner too - and it is an extremely complex issue not to mention sensitive, trauma, mental health, all of these things.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Jun 19, 2020 4:37:14 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm sure punching a dude in the face away from any cameras sure protected his gimmick.
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