|
Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jun 26, 2020 20:39:31 GMT -5
While I definitely agree you should hire VA of the characters' nationality or race, I can see it bothering people to change iconic voices. If we're prohibiting people from voicing characters because of race or nationality, thousands of VAs are going to be out of work because of it and limitations being put on them.
Steve Blum for example, his most well known role is Canadian and he's from California.
Yes the real problem here is the white people that are playing other white people
|
|
Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,296
|
Post by Fade on Jun 26, 2020 20:44:38 GMT -5
Oof. It’s VOICE ACTING! As a Mexican-American, I could give two shits if a white, black, yellow or green person voiced a Latino in an animated show/movie. Yeah, as a Hispanic I could not care less but ..*shrug* I guess people will care. Like this. I dunno. I’ve lost stamina with this stuff. Gotta say the biggest shocker with any Simpson news is its. still. going....
|
|
|
Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jun 26, 2020 20:47:40 GMT -5
The problem is that The Simpsons is still going. I mean, why are we even mad? When was the last time we sat and watched The Simpsons? What is the last episode you remember or quote. It's done. It's past it's point of relevance. Maybe 10 years ago, it does something, but now; getting mad over a ghost?
|
|
|
Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on Jun 26, 2020 20:52:26 GMT -5
The problem is that The Simpsons is still going. I mean, why are we even mad? When was the last time we sat and watched The Simpsons? What is the last episode you remember or quote. It's done. It's past it's point of relevance. Maybe 10 years ago, it does something, but now; getting mad over a ghost? I think it's the belief that voice actors have to be directly representative of their characters and the ramifications of it that are concerning people. When one of the bigger shows decides to go down that path it's hard to believe other productions won't feel compelled to follow.
|
|
camphor #BLM
Don Corleone
It's Skull-Sorcerer vs Super Sorcerer in a legendary LEG BAT battle!
Posts: 1,448
|
Post by camphor #BLM on Jun 26, 2020 20:54:44 GMT -5
Wow, two threads in the same day where arguments got my dander up. I'm going to need to moderate my dander better.
They did it for reasons. If you don't want to try to understand those reasons and would rather "OH YEAH, WELL WHAT ABOUT THIS CONTEXTLESS PROPOSED EQUIVALENCY?" instead, that's up to you.
|
|
Welfare Willis
Crow T. Robot
Pornomancer 555-BONE FDIC Bonsured
Game Center CX Kacho on!
Posts: 44,259
|
Post by Welfare Willis on Jun 26, 2020 20:57:10 GMT -5
Remember when actors acted like someone they were not? I think they called it acting? Yeah, that was some of my thoughts as well. Clearly in live action a white person playing a person of color is wrong. Look at Mickey Rookney in Breakfast at Tiffany's for an outrageously racist example of this. However, I also thought by vacating these non-white roles that they are creating opportunities for people of color to shine which isn't a bad thing. So for now I understand why producers and cast are doing this although I think it's symbolism without necessarily really addressing real issues. Yes, Gone with the Wind was wrong in it's portrayal, but really how many people who aren't cinemaphiles nowadays were going to go back and watch Gone with the Wind? I stand with BLM and their struggle. Yet I feel like things like these gestures aren't really addressing the real issues. It's great opportunities for people of color to shine in a role and that helps, but it just feels very on the surface to me. EDIT: Even after I typed this out, I'm reminded of the Apu example. Hank Azaria did Apu and many Americans never had a problem with it. However, thanks to "The Problem with Apu" it started a discussion about how that character had unintended consequences of creating a stereotype of Indians. We didn't see then how some of these characters may have a negative influence as I'm sure Mickey Rooney didn't see it when he was playing Mr. Yunioshi. But now we do know and it's important to have these discussions and how it affects certain communities. I had more written out but it would be against the rules of this board since you have to go into both race and politics of the united states. It's a delicate issue that needs to be discussed, but not on a pro wrestling forum.
|
|
chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 85,079
|
Post by chrom on Jun 26, 2020 21:01:06 GMT -5
If we're prohibiting people from voicing characters because of race or nationality, thousands of VAs are going to be out of work because of it and limitations being put on them.
Steve Blum for example, his most well known role is Canadian and he's from California.
Yes the real problem here is the white people that are playing other white people And yet no complaints about Phil Lamarr playing a Japanese guy or Christopher Judge playing a Greek.
|
|
|
Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jun 26, 2020 21:08:32 GMT -5
The problem is that The Simpsons is still going. I mean, why are we even mad? When was the last time we sat and watched The Simpsons? What is the last episode you remember or quote. It's done. It's past it's point of relevance. Maybe 10 years ago, it does something, but now; getting mad over a ghost? I think it's the belief that voice actors have to be directly representative of their characters and the ramifications of it that are concerning people. When one of the bigger shows decides to go down that path it's hard to believe other productions won't feel compelled to follow. I think the Simpsons basic issue is that is was made in 1990, and instead of just cancelling itself, it keeps trying to adapt. If it came around today, there is very little chance of an entire cast being white, especially with many non-white characters. Moreover, and issue with The Simpsons and Family Guy is just a lack of representation of non-whites in the writing room, in the production of the show; so the issue becomes even more profound. I don't believe the issue is that white voice actors are voicing non-white characters in terms of the race of the characters, but in terms of the entire VA industry, which was struggled to get non-white voices into the business.
|
|
|
Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jun 26, 2020 21:10:40 GMT -5
Yes the real problem here is the white people that are playing other white people And yet no complaints about Phil Lamarr playing a Japanese guy or Christopher Judge playing a Greek.
If non-white voice actors voiced white characters with even a part of the rate that white actors voice non-white roles, then there would be complaints.
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Jun 26, 2020 21:11:51 GMT -5
I think it's the belief that voice actors have to be directly representative of their characters and the ramifications of it that are concerning people. When one of the bigger shows decides to go down that path it's hard to believe other productions won't feel compelled to follow. I think the Simpsons basic issue is that is was made in 1990, and instead of just cancelling itself, it keeps trying to adapt. If it came around today, there is very little chance of an entire cast being white, especially with many non-white characters. Moreover, and issue with The Simpsons and Family Guy is just a lack of representation of non-whites in the writing room, in the production of the show; so the issue becomes even more profound. I don't believe the issue is that white voice actors are voicing non-white characters in terms of the race of the characters, but in terms of the entire VA industry, which was struggled to get non-white voices into the business. It’s that and also, if you’re running a major animation production, you know Cree Summer’s going to do the job you want voicing a black girl/woman because she’s Cree Summer and she’s done it forever. You’re not exactly going to take a risk on another black actress who hasn’t done as much when there’s someone fully trained in how VO production works and can get you something efficiently. Which is a major problem breaking into voice acting and has been for ages. If you’re going to have someone voice a black character, you’re not going to break someone in 99% of the time, you’re going to likely go with Summer, Kevin Michael Richardson, Phil Lamarr or someone whose coming in from another industry.
|
|
|
Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jun 26, 2020 21:14:27 GMT -5
I think the Simpsons basic issue is that is was made in 1990, and instead of just cancelling itself, it keeps trying to adapt. If it came around today, there is very little chance of an entire cast being white, especially with many non-white characters. Moreover, and issue with The Simpsons and Family Guy is just a lack of representation of non-whites in the writing room, in the production of the show; so the issue becomes even more profound. I don't believe the issue is that white voice actors are voicing non-white characters in terms of the race of the characters, but in terms of the entire VA industry, which was struggled to get non-white voices into the business. It’s that and also, if you’re running a major animation production, you know Cree Summer’s going to do the job you want voicing a black girl/woman because she’s Cree Summer and she’s done it forever. You’re not exactly going to take a risk on another black actress who hasn’t done as much when there’s someone fully trained in how VO production works and can get you something efficiently. Bingo.
|
|
|
Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jun 26, 2020 21:19:20 GMT -5
How many non-white voice actors can you name, that let's say, have more than 5 roles. 3 or 4. Maybe a few more if you are really into animation. Now, compare them with white actors. I mean, there are a ton. And how many black actors have been given multiple characters on the same show like Family Guy, the Simpsons, South Park.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 21:41:23 GMT -5
The problem is that The Simpsons is still going. I mean, why are we even mad? When was the last time we sat and watched The Simpsons? What is the last episode you remember or quote. It's done. It's past it's point of relevance. Maybe 10 years ago, it does something, but now; getting mad over a ghost? I dunno, it's just one of those things where people get outraged over something even though people have long stopped caring. The irony is, I can assure you a good portion of the people complaining stopped watching the show regularly years, if not decades, ago and would not be interested at all in seeing an episode from recent history, but will bitch for the sake of bitching. If anything, this is just something to ensure that the cow keeps getting milked long after it's udder withered since that's all The Simpsons is good for nowadays. One such thing I notice is people feel like these changes invalidate the past; as long as the past exists and there's archival footage of it, what trouble is there to tinker with the formula? That was one reason why people had so many issues with George Lucas's constant meddling with the original Star Wars trilogy; it was constantly being adjusted even while it was in theaters. As far as we know, no original archived version of the films exist for public consumption, so anytime we get those films, we get stuff with more tacked-on content that is unnecessary. This also presents the issue I see with people having gripes with them removing Elmer Fudd's access to guns; older cartoons still exist, and even projects from recent years had used them. If one project decided "Nah, we'll do things differently due to how society is", that does not mean everything that existed beforehand should be wiped out or you must feel bad about it. It just represents the progression of society and how you choose to view it is on you.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,203
|
Post by Mozenrath on Jun 26, 2020 21:47:14 GMT -5
Even if Simpsons is a shambling corpse, it still probably has, realistically, what, 5 seasons left, tops? Because the actors always have to fight getting fired every time they ask for raises, and they're not coming back without it. Fox tried to threaten re-casting, but they knew it was not realistically an option. Beyond that, some of the cast is getting up there in age.
My point being, get mad, stomp your feet, clench your fists, but this is realistically changing very little. Most non-white characters don't appear much nowadays, or, if they do, could easily just not even talk for cameos, etc. What are the chances any of them are going to be the focal point of an episode? Now, if they DO recast, maybe there's a conversation to be had, but if they do, it isn't going to be most of them.
This is, and I must stress this is not an intentional pun, a token gesture. I'm still glad about it for the sake of precedence, I guess, because it's a problem I'd like to see future shows dodge, but the effect on Simpsons, Family Guy, and some other shows is going to be very marginal.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 21:47:58 GMT -5
I think the Simpsons basic issue is that is was made in 1990, and instead of just cancelling itself, it keeps trying to adapt. If it came around today, there is very little chance of an entire cast being white, especially with many non-white characters. Moreover, and issue with The Simpsons and Family Guy is just a lack of representation of non-whites in the writing room, in the production of the show; so the issue becomes even more profound. I don't believe the issue is that white voice actors are voicing non-white characters in terms of the race of the characters, but in terms of the entire VA industry, which was struggled to get non-white voices into the business. It’s that and also, if you’re running a major animation production, you know Cree Summer’s going to do the job you want voicing a black girl/woman because she’s Cree Summer and she’s done it forever. You’re not exactly going to take a risk on another black actress who hasn’t done as much when there’s someone fully trained in how VO production works and can get you something efficiently. Which is a major problem breaking into voice acting and has been for ages. If you’re going to have someone voice a black character, you’re not going to break someone in 99% of the time, you’re going to likely go with Summer, Kevin Michael Richardson, Phil Lamarr or someone whose coming in from another industry. That's the other problem; studios are going to be lazy and hire the same three or four people to voice the minority characters. That's good for them, but it absolutely sucks for anyone who actually wants to get into the business. Dani Chambers is someone who's an anime voice actress that's getting known and is doing characters that aren't tied to ethnicity (which I think people have argued about in this thread), but it gets harder to find people who want to voice characters for a living and are black or another racial background.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 22:08:38 GMT -5
Even if Simpsons is a shambling corpse, it still probably has, realistically, what, 5 seasons left, tops? Because the actors always have to fight getting fired every time they ask for raises, and they're not coming back without it. Fox tried to threaten re-casting, but they knew it was not realistically an option. Beyond that, some of the cast is getting up there in age. My point being, get mad, stomp your feet, clench your fists, but this is realistically changing very little. Most non-white characters don't appear much nowadays, or, if they do, could easily just not even talk for cameos, etc. What are the chances any of them are going to be the focal point of an episode? Now, if they DO recast, maybe there's a conversation to be had, but if they do, it isn't going to be most of them. This is, and I must stress this is not an intentional pun, a token gesture. I'm still glad about it for the sake of precedence, I guess, because it's a problem I'd like to see future shows dodge, but the effect on Simpsons, Family Guy, and some other shows is going to be very marginal. Al Jean is gonna do everything in his power to have it go 50 seasons if he could. It doesn't matter if the show is nothing but an irrelevant pile of suck; it brings in money and job security to his exclusive club of writers... and if I sound too snarky about that, there has practically been no turnover in the writing staff for almost 20 years after a turbulent first decade. Besides, I always feel like The Simpsons, due to its laborious schedule for development and animation, is one of the last things to discuss hot-button issues, and considering that their attempts at humor are often surface level referential comedy and glad-handing celebrities, it only makes them look more archaic. In the past season, the show attempted to look at STEM educational schools and decided that the resolution was "machines will refuse to take care of the elderly, so the school explodes"; cryptocurrencies where Professor Frink suddenly becomes a billionaire overnight and the plot ignores the fact Frink destroys every cryptocurrency in existence in the end; marijuana legalization where instead of exploring how old-school stoners like Otto might feel like their culture is selling out, focuses instead on Marge going on a bad CBD trip (because we still can't have characters smoke joints on network TV); and the worst episode of the season, in which Todd Flanders has a crisis of faith, and is brutalized verbally & emotionally by his own father due to his sudden lack of faith and then the story ignores him entirely opting for a cop-out ending. Besides the last one, which can be a generic episode that anyone can do, the others are topical and would have a "been there, done that" mindset by the time the Johnny (Tightlips) Come-Lately Simpsons arrive with their half-baked take on it. Like you said, the minority characters don't appear, and that also presents another problem that the show has been facing for years; Springfield has been becoming a generic representation of a specific kind of community, which in this case, is suburban California cities. In the old days, the elasticity the show had allowed for them to present the community as a microcosm of America, albeit a bastardized version, but in the past decade, Springfield has morphed into a town where, aside from the episode's writer gushing about their old hometown, is depicted as Burbank or Pasadena. Unless the episode is meant to go out of its way to remind the viewer that the town is supposed to be crap, no attempt is made to highlight how... average the community is, and much as I hate to say it, but this is often a subliminal fantasy people have as the reason they move to suburban towns or regions, and that's to get away from what they perceive as blight, and ethnic diversity, unfortunately, is placed in as one of those things. The show only has one designated family that's "poor" and it's my least favorite characters in the series; the Spucklers, so any attempts to explore socioeconomics are swept under the rug. I'm not purposefully blaming the staff (well, Al Jean definitely, but I don't know about the rest) for bypassing these details, but it isn't hard to notice.
|
|
|
Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on Jun 26, 2020 22:59:10 GMT -5
I think the Simpsons basic issue is that is was made in 1990, and instead of just cancelling itself, it keeps trying to adapt. If it came around today, there is very little chance of an entire cast being white, especially with many non-white characters. Moreover, and issue with The Simpsons and Family Guy is just a lack of representation of non-whites in the writing room, in the production of the show; so the issue becomes even more profound. I don't believe the issue is that white voice actors are voicing non-white characters in terms of the race of the characters, but in terms of the entire VA industry, which was struggled to get non-white voices into the business. I'm admittedly cynical but this change was not made because The Simpsons wants to pave the way for new, non-white voices to get their fair shot in the industry. They made it because they no longer want to deal with the controversy of Hank Azaria voicing Apu and are trying to prevent another issue before it arises. One could say "but an unintended positive consequence is more talent breaking through" but honestly I think the result is they just get as eJm said; Cree Summer, Kevin Michael Richardson, Phil Lamarr or - how about this for excitement - famous colored celebs to fill in and they continue doing the same milquetoast show they've done the last 15 years. The issue of new non-white voice talent having trouble getting roles is a legitimate one. It's one I don't know as much about because I'm not into animation behind-the-scenes to the level many here are. I would be glad to be recommend articles or discussions that go deeper into that. But the majority of the discourse I see elsewhere that facilitated this change has less to do with that issue and more with there being something inherently wrong with a voice actor voicing a character that is not their same race, orientation or other notable identity component. Because animation is a medium based on depicting what real life can't, I can't agree with that. It also, ironically, would limit the pool of new talent by confining potential roles to their identity. As a Mexican-American if a potential solution to that is "well, just don't worry about applying that limitation to POC, but make sure it does apply to whites" and you can't see why that's problematic ..... I'll spell it out but I really shouldn't have to.
|
|
Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,975
|
Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jun 26, 2020 23:44:18 GMT -5
They are f***ing drawings. They are not white, black, yellow, Indian, Scottish, male or female....they are drawings!
That whiny guy who made the documentary....if Apu was voiced by an Indian actor...you’re still getting called Apu. Quit picking on the easy shit and concentrate on the actual racism.
|
|
agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,303
|
Post by agent817 on Jun 27, 2020 0:17:57 GMT -5
*sigh*
I have been a fan of this show for 30 years. This is the worst decision ever. Nobody would be able to do Apu justice like how Hank Azaria did. It's just a freaking character. Did people say anything about Samuel L. Jackson and Charlie Murphy doing the voices of Gin Rummy and Ed Wuncler III on The Boondocks?
|
|
|
Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jun 27, 2020 0:28:53 GMT -5
They are f***ing drawings. They are not white, black, yellow, Indian, Scottish, male or female....they are drawings! That whiny guy who made the documentary....if Apu was voiced by an Indian actor...you’re still getting called Apu. Quit picking on the easy shit and concentrate on the actual racism. Don't know if it's our place to tell the Indian guy how-to feel about the white guy doing an Indian voice.
|
|