Vince to (some of the) roster: “Back to PC with you, dammit”

[Chiral]

Re: Vince being high on Keith, it was interesting to see in Keith's WWE 24 ep where Vince had a talk with him after his Raw debut, Lee was super fired up afterwards and said it was super motivating, but with the way Vince is this bit jumped out at me lol

[eJm]

Dec 11, 2020 15:10:10 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Stop calling people up when they aren't ready and you don't have a plan for them you ole bastard

Sheesh, it isn't that hard

Like, this feels like an almost decades long issue but it stands out more when you have the platform to develop talent from the ground up.

This isn’t OVW where you’re giving them to someone else to train and then you craft them from there, they control someone’s entire narrative and can fine tune someone to be as ready as they need to.

You can build people to slot into the holes you need but instead you’re taking a random piece from another puzzle and shocked it’s not fitting in the puzzle you’re presently doing when you’re the one making all the puzzles.

[Magic knows Black Lives Matter]

Dec 11, 2020 15:15:47 GMT -5 Chiral said:

Re: Vince being high on Keith, it was interesting to see in Keith's WWE 24 ep where Vince had a talk with him after his Raw debut, Lee was super fired up afterwards and said it was super motivating, but with the way Vince is this bit jumped out at me lol

Ie. I’m for sure for sure about to f*** yo career up 😂😂😂 That’s gotta be some heart stopping shit when Vince talks about some, “you know, just trust me, I got you, put this helmet on”

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Dec 11, 2020 15:15:47 GMT -5 Chiral said:

Re: Vince being high on Keith, it was interesting to see in Keith's WWE 24 ep where Vince had a talk with him after his Raw debut, Lee was super fired up afterwards and said it was super motivating, but with the way Vince is this bit jumped out at me lol

"Gotta make some changes and be you." is the most bullshit line by Vince ever. WWE Wrestlers are never allowed to be themselves, they have to be what Vince thinks they need to be with no wiggle room, and that's why they crash and burn so much. 

[markymark]

Fightful learned more about the edict to send several big men to take classes at the Performance Center under Drew Gulak and Adam Pearce.

Those that we spoke to say that many wrestlers were told to keep this quiet for obvious reasons, but word inevitably leaked.

Otis, Omos, Dabba Kato, Dio Maddin (Mace) and Keith Lee were among the names mentioned, but we're told there's supposed to be more. We're told this isn't in relation to heat on any specific wrestler.

Understandably, the locker room, and those at the PC I spoke to were baffled about the decision to send Keith Lee there, as he's considered one of the better workers regardless of size. Many believed and shared the sentiment that he was caught up in the group based on his size and otherwise would not have been included.

Dabba Kato was planned for Raw Underground, and since that was nixed, there have been no firm plans for him. The same happened with Arturo Ruas, Ruas was mentioned in the original report, he's not a part of this class and is out for a "significant amount of time" with surgery.

Otis is well liked backstage, but we were told of a couple of spots in recent months that got the attention of people at Gorilla Position that believed Otis could also be safer in the ring. There wasn't said to be heat in association with that.

Omos was a name that many expected to be sent to the class, but we were told that WWE had planned to have him on Raw during WrestleMania season, and didn't do much to prepare him for the spot from an in-ring perspective. He's had a half-dozen matches and is said to need either a lot of work, or some major smoke and mirrors at this point.

Most chalked up Dio Maddin/Mace, to being out of the ring for the majority of a year after being taken off WWE Raw as an announcer. He wrestled house show matches in prominent spots earlier this year.

Yeah Lee being sent there is laughable. 

[Deleted]

Otis is well liked backstage, but we were told of a couple of spots in recent months that got the attention of people at Gorilla Position that believed Otis could also be safer in the ring. There wasn't said to be heat in association with that.

Meanwhile...

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Dec 11, 2020 15:18:57 GMT -5 eJm said:

Dec 11, 2020 15:10:10 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Stop calling people up when they aren't ready and you don't have a plan for them you ole bastard

Sheesh, it isn't that hard

Like, this feels like an almost decades long issue but it stands out more when you have the platform to develop talent from the ground up.

This isn’t OVW where you’re giving them to someone else to train and then you craft them from there, they control someone’s entire narrative and can fine tune someone to be as ready as they need to.

You can build people to slot into the holes you need but instead you’re taking a random piece from another puzzle and shocked it’s not fitting in the puzzle you’re presently doing when you’re the one making all the puzzles.

Here is the thing, you have NXT whether it is development or a 3rd brand, it is a system you should be using more smartly

If it was up to HHH, he'd still have people like Ricochet, Angel Garza, Keith Lee etc but they got "called up". Those are all good wrestlers who don't need much work. However, if you call those guys up, you should be sending people back. WWE is just in a world class of f***ery. You have people who want to work, people who want to just collect a check and people who really don't give a f***

Robert Roode could be back down in NXT helping teach others. They had brought up EY and his group for no reason when they could have kept them in NXT and even when they split, why the f** you didn't send EY back to NXT. 

Too many mistakes. Damn near every NXT call up sits on the shelf for almost 6 months before anything is done with them. Keith Lee right now is bypassing that and Finn Balor came up to instant success with the Universal title but the injury took him out. Bianca Belair has been on WWE TV since after Mania and the move to SD is just now getting her some work. Andrade when he got called up sat around for months. 

With as deep a talent pool and embarrassment of riches they have, the parity in how people are booked should not be as deep as it is. 

[Magic knows Black Lives Matter]

“LEE!!! DIDNT I TELL YOU TO TRIM THOSE SIDEBURNS!!! That’s it, you’re off the main roster, go to the PC!”

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

Dec 11, 2020 15:01:58 GMT -5 @dax said:

Dec 11, 2020 14:56:52 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Speaking of being upset about how they're using Keith Lee, they've put him on Main Event vs Angel Garza, another guy who they seem to have just... given up on right now for no reason.

Garza disappearing from Raw is weird, but I see this more as them trying to get people to watch Main Event than anything. They've also had both Miz and Jeff on it in the last few weeks. They should probably try actually advertising it, though.

I appreciate the effort on their part but in addition to advertising it, they should find a more widely available platform for it. It's hard to push your audience to go watch something when it's on Hulu. I know a decent amount of people have it but still, that's a hard place to build an audience. 

[Gus Richlen Was Wrong]

Dec 11, 2020 15:21:07 GMT -5 markymark said:

Fightful learned more about the edict to send several big men to take classes at the Performance Center under Drew Gulak and Adam Pearce.

Those that we spoke to say that many wrestlers were told to keep this quiet for obvious reasons, but word inevitably leaked.

Otis, Omos, Dabba Kato, Dio Maddin (Mace) and Keith Lee were among the names mentioned, but we're told there's supposed to be more. We're told this isn't in relation to heat on any specific wrestler.

Understandably, the locker room, and those at the PC I spoke to were baffled about the decision to send Keith Lee there, as he's considered one of the better workers regardless of size. Many believed and shared the sentiment that he was caught up in the group based on his size and otherwise would not have been included.

Dabba Kato was planned for Raw Underground, and since that was nixed, there have been no firm plans for him. The same happened with Arturo Ruas, Ruas was mentioned in the original report, he's not a part of this class and is out for a "significant amount of time" with surgery.

Otis is well liked backstage, but we were told of a couple of spots in recent months that got the attention of people at Gorilla Position that believed Otis could also be safer in the ring. There wasn't said to be heat in association with that.

Omos was a name that many expected to be sent to the class, but we were told that WWE had planned to have him on Raw during WrestleMania season, and didn't do much to prepare him for the spot from an in-ring perspective. He's had a half-dozen matches and is said to need either a lot of work, or some major smoke and mirrors at this point.

Most chalked up Dio Maddin/Mace, to being out of the ring for the majority of a year after being taken off WWE Raw as an announcer. He wrestled house show matches in prominent spots earlier this year.

Yeah Lee being sent there is laughable. 

Wait, so Vince may have sent Lee down BY ACCIDENT?!

Holy hell, I don't jump on Vince as much as some but this is pathetic if true.

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

I also heard that Vince sent all the young luchadores to the PC to work on their high-flying and sent Rey since he happened to be wearing a mask at the time.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Dec 11, 2020 15:21:07 GMT -5 markymark said:

Fightful learned more about the edict to send several big men to take classes at the Performance Center under Drew Gulak and Adam Pearce.

Those that we spoke to say that many wrestlers were told to keep this quiet for obvious reasons, but word inevitably leaked.

Otis, Omos, Dabba Kato, Dio Maddin (Mace) and Keith Lee were among the names mentioned, but we're told there's supposed to be more. We're told this isn't in relation to heat on any specific wrestler.

Understandably, the locker room, and those at the PC I spoke to were baffled about the decision to send Keith Lee there, as he's considered one of the better workers regardless of size. Many believed and shared the sentiment that he was caught up in the group based on his size and otherwise would not have been included.

Dabba Kato was planned for Raw Underground, and since that was nixed, there have been no firm plans for him. The same happened with Arturo Ruas, Ruas was mentioned in the original report, he's not a part of this class and is out for a "significant amount of time" with surgery.

Otis is well liked backstage, but we were told of a couple of spots in recent months that got the attention of people at Gorilla Position that believed Otis could also be safer in the ring. There wasn't said to be heat in association with that.

Omos was a name that many expected to be sent to the class, but we were told that WWE had planned to have him on Raw during WrestleMania season, and didn't do much to prepare him for the spot from an in-ring perspective. He's had a half-dozen matches and is said to need either a lot of work, or some major smoke and mirrors at this point.

Most chalked up Dio Maddin/Mace, to being out of the ring for the majority of a year after being taken off WWE Raw as an announcer. He wrestled house show matches in prominent spots earlier this year.

Yeah Lee being sent there is laughable. 

If Vince really sent Keith down because Keith is a big man and he wants to "refine big men", then he really needs to be put in a home, this shit is ridiculous and kills wrestlers confidence in themselves.

Though the other thing that really gets me about this is he "Wants the big wrestlers to work safer spots". UH HELLO? THEN WHY IS NIA JAX STILL HERE?? The one who has actively and emphatically botched spots and hurt people multiple times??

This shit continues to outright baffle me. This is peak "Vince has lost his damn mind" and he's just looking for anything else to blame 

[kingoftheindies]

Dec 11, 2020 15:23:56 GMT -5 @dax said:

Otis is well liked backstage, but we were told of a couple of spots in recent months that got the attention of people at Gorilla Position that believed Otis could also be safer in the ring. There wasn't said to be heat in association with that.

Meanwhile...

I think that comes down to Raw and Smackdown having... inconsistent feelings towards the women's division for lack of a better word

[Cyno]

Dec 11, 2020 15:26:41 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Dec 11, 2020 15:18:57 GMT -5 eJm said:

Like, this feels like an almost decades long issue but it stands out more when you have the platform to develop talent from the ground up.

This isn’t OVW where you’re giving them to someone else to train and then you craft them from there, they control someone’s entire narrative and can fine tune someone to be as ready as they need to.

You can build people to slot into the holes you need but instead you’re taking a random piece from another puzzle and shocked it’s not fitting in the puzzle you’re presently doing when you’re the one making all the puzzles.

Here is the thing, you have NXT whether it is development or a 3rd brand, it is a system you should be using more smartly

If it was up to HHH, he'd still have people like Ricochet, Angel Garza, Keith Lee etc but they got "called up". Those are all good wrestlers who don't need much work. However, if you call those guys up, you should be sending people back. WWE is just in a world class of f***ery. You have people who want to work, people who want to just collect a check and people who really don't give a f***

Robert Roode could be back down in NXT helping teach others. They had brought up EY and his group for no reason when they could have kept them in NXT and even when they split, why the f** you didn't send EY back to NXT. 

Too many mistakes. Damn near every NXT call up sits on the shelf for almost 6 months before anything is done with them. Keith Lee right now is bypassing that and Finn Balor came up to instant success with the Universal title but the injury took him out. Bianca Belair has been on WWE TV since after Mania and the move to SD is just now getting her some work. Andrade when he got called up sat around for months. 

With as deep a talent pool and embarrassment of riches they have, the parity in how people are booked should not be as deep as it is. 

There is this very odd disconnect in the way call-ups are handled. NXT is wholly owned and operated by WWE but at times it feels like a completely different entity in how they operate versus the rest of the company. It feels like there's no synergy between producers and trainers in monitoring talent and determining if someone is ready to be on Raw or Smackdown.

And let's not even talk about the seeming lack of long-term plans for any of their call-ups. Way too many NXT talent have been called up the last few years with "Ok, they're in Raw or Smackdown now! Now what?" approaches. Don't call folks up unless you have plans in store for them, and if you don't, don't be surprised when they regress and you wonder why this hot prospect is just treading water. Keith Lee is the perfect example of the problems with the system as is.

[Soultastic]

Vince doubling down on making Keith Lee a worse wrestler is somehow the most WWE thing of the year.

[romanstylesiii]

Keith Lee has had some damn good matches in the indies and in NXT. Otis was an All-American wrestler and also had good matches WTH is Vince talking about??

He's losing his damn mind

[Brood Lone Wolf Funker]

I too have been told to go to the performance center to learn to work

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Dec 11, 2020 15:39:40 GMT -5 Cyno said:

Dec 11, 2020 15:26:41 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Here is the thing, you have NXT whether it is development or a 3rd brand, it is a system you should be using more smartly

If it was up to HHH, he'd still have people like Ricochet, Angel Garza, Keith Lee etc but they got "called up". Those are all good wrestlers who don't need much work. However, if you call those guys up, you should be sending people back. WWE is just in a world class of f***ery. You have people who want to work, people who want to just collect a check and people who really don't give a f***

Robert Roode could be back down in NXT helping teach others. They had brought up EY and his group for no reason when they could have kept them in NXT and even when they split, why the f** you didn't send EY back to NXT. 

Too many mistakes. Damn near every NXT call up sits on the shelf for almost 6 months before anything is done with them. Keith Lee right now is bypassing that and Finn Balor came up to instant success with the Universal title but the injury took him out. Bianca Belair has been on WWE TV since after Mania and the move to SD is just now getting her some work. Andrade when he got called up sat around for months. 

With as deep a talent pool and embarrassment of riches they have, the parity in how people are booked should not be as deep as it is. 

There is this very odd disconnect in the way call-ups are handled. NXT is wholly owned and operated by WWE but at times it feels like a completely different entity in how they operate versus the rest of the company. It feels like there's no synergy between producers and trainers in monitoring talent and determining if someone is ready to be on Raw or Smackdown.

And let's not even talk about the seeming lack of long-term plans for any of their call-ups. Way too many NXT talent have been called up the last few years with "Ok, they're in Raw or Smackdown now! Now what?" approaches. Don't call folks up unless you have plans in store for them, and if you don't, don't be surprised when they regress and you wonder why this hot prospect is just treading water. Keith Lee is the perfect example of the problems with the system as is.

The main difference is the philosophy of HHH and Vince. HHH trust his wrestlers and you can tell the ones that have enough freedom to say what they feel and act on it. HBK and others who help produce and give people advice give their own input and not what they think only what HHH wants. The big problem comes in when it is time for RAW/SD. Vince runs a whole diff shop then HHH and has everything by the book and does things on a whim. 

Question is, should HHH be booking to Vince whim or his own. HHH way no doubt works and he without question has more loyal soldiers then Vince does. Problem is his influence is only felt at the bottom level and there is no telling when if ever he will get full control. 

Ideally, Vince job should be cake. You got a whole system that spent a year or more showcasing this wrestler in the hottest matches and feuds possible. You only have to make minor tweaks and set them up for success. Instead, he breaks them down and builds them back up to even less success outside of a few notable examples. I wouldn't even say Keith Lee is the perfect example, more so Shayna Bayzler is. She was ready made to take the reigns from Becky and be one of the pillars of that division. Instead, she lost the Rumble, lost at Mania and disappeared for months until winning the tag titles. 

[Deleted]

Dec 11, 2020 13:47:46 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

From rumblings on social media Lee and Otis are there to give those guys people of similar size to work with.

Oh...thank god. Hopefully it's just this and nothing else for him.

I was about to be livid that my boy Keith Lee was sent back due to this. Vince even gave him props on his ringwork during that special a few days ago so I woulda been confused.

[Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast]

I mean when they changed Keith's gear on night one of the call-up that only seemed to bode the worst.