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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2021 14:11:17 GMT -5
Correct me if I am wrong. New Jack to me comes off as a guy who if you are not an asshole & show him & the business the proper respect you will not have a problem with. The stories I have heard about Jack going off the rails all involve someone being an ahole or a lack of respect. FTR I have met the man twice. Very quiet but no problems. Asked him politely for a few autos back in the day & he signed willingly. Second time got a photo op for the Mrs. ( She didnt know about him at the time but I was making her get OPS with ECW Guys for when she starts watching the history of ECW so she has no regrets later.) I have never heard anything about Jack being a "bad guy," per se (though the recent stuff that's come out about him disowning his son leads me to believe that he may well be a shitbag), but he has always had the reputation of being a dangerous and violent person in the ring, and that's been exacerbated throughout his career by his brain trauma. That said, I've never really held New Jack at "fault" for the Mass Transit incident. Like, if you knowingly swim in shark infested waters and get your leg bitten off is that the shark's fault? New Jack's reputation already preceded him by 1996. The vast majority of the culpability for the incident has to lie with Mass Transit's father for lying on his son's behalf and knowingly allowing an untrained 17-year-old kid to do a garbage match with a notoriously dangerous dude. It's hard to blame the kid himself for acting on his dream to be a pro wrestler, foolish as it may have been. |
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Apr 21, 2021 14:13:22 GMT -5
New Jack's always been an asshole and a thug who should be locked up in prison for life, that's why after ECW closed he refused to go against experienced guys and only targeted those with not even a dozen matches who can't fight back because if he tried it on a pro he'd get his ass wiped and can't try to justify his antics
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Apr 21, 2021 14:14:30 GMT -5
Wasn't Mass Transit 17 when this happened? If so he wasn't a kid. Still not an adult either |
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Apr 21, 2021 14:19:43 GMT -5
Wasn't Mass Transit 17 when this happened? If so he wasn't a kid. Still not an adult either But by 17 he is old enough to think for himself. Hell I was 17 when I signed up for the Army. And yes I know there are 17 year olds that act like kids. But there is also 17 year olds that act like adults. Just keep seeing people call him a kid and acting like he was some 8 year old that didn't know better. Sucks what happened to him happened. But he was also a wrestling fan and knew how New Jack is. |
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Apr 21, 2021 16:16:54 GMT -5
Still not an adult either But by 17 he is old enough to think for himself. Hell I was 17 when I signed up for the Army. And yes I know there are 17 year olds that act like kids. But there is also 17 year olds that act like adults. Just keep seeing people call him a kid and acting like he was some 8 year old that didn't know better. Sucks what happened to him happened. But he was also a wrestling fan and knew how New Jack is. In fairness (and I say this as somebody who has no sympathy for him) New Jack didn't have that kind of a reputation until this incident happened. |
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Apr 21, 2021 16:31:49 GMT -5
I blame his Dad more than anybody else. Mass Transit was a kid Paul Heyman is a sleazy business man New Jack is seemingly a sociopath As the parent in that situation your job is to protect your child Completely agree with this. It's absolutely the Dad who f***ed up multiple times along the way before, during and after. |
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Apr 21, 2021 16:35:47 GMT -5
And 17 is definitely still a kid.
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Doctor Of Style
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Post by Doctor Of Style on Apr 21, 2021 18:05:08 GMT -5
Very little. I was there when Charles Austin was crippled, because he lied about being a trained wrestler and had no idea how to take the rocker dropper. That f***ed Marty over as bad as I've ever seen.
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Venti
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Post by Venti on Apr 21, 2021 18:15:51 GMT -5
I used to have way less sympathy, but as I've gotten a few years older, I understand more that 17 year olds make really really stupid mistakes.
His dad should have been more responsible.
Paul Heyman shouldn't have just taken his word that he was a trained adult.
New Jack shouldn't have done, well, New Jack things.
But at the same time, a 17 year old SHOULD know better than to try and wrestle untrained.
So he gets some sympy from me, because while he also did willingly put himself into the ring, he didn't ask to be assaulted the way he was.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Apr 21, 2021 18:20:53 GMT -5
And 17 is definitely still a kid. In the sense that he was not legally an adult? Yes absolutely. In the sense that he was too young to know how stupid and dangerous this was? Sorry, that dog don't hunt for me. |
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Post by johnnyk9 on Apr 21, 2021 18:30:17 GMT -5
Having been an Indy referee/manager/wrestler and knowing locker room etiquette I have no sympathy whatsoever. He went in there with an ego mindset thinking he was the next ECW star, he disrespected veterans in the locker room by bragging about himself, lighting up a cigarette in front of Taz who loathes smoking, and asked a seasoned wrestler if he could get offense in when he was told already that he was just a fall guy. That is a big no no. Then he asked for New Jack to cut him, granted he probably wasn’t well aware of New Jack’s fighting nature but he asked for it. And also him and his father disrespected Tiny and his brother who were the ones who got them there and vouched for him. He lied about his age on top of all this. He did not belong there in the first place enough said.
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Post by sungod2020 on Apr 21, 2021 20:50:09 GMT -5
I used to have way less sympathy, but as I've gotten a few years older, I understand more that 17 year olds make really really stupid mistakes. His dad should have been more responsible. Paul Heyman shouldn't have just taken his word that he was a trained adult. New Jack shouldn't have done, well, New Jack things. But at the same time, a 17 year old SHOULD know better than to try and wrestle untrained. So he gets some sympy from me, because while he also did willingly put himself into the ring, he didn't ask to be assaulted the way he was. In all fairness he kinda sorta did by asking to be bladed. He just wasn't aware how much of a disaster it ended up being. As far as blame goes, I would put Mass Transit last, followed by New Jack who gone too far(though he did check to see if he was okay, as heard in the video), his dad for vouching for him, and then Heyman for just taking his word for it and not even doing a background check. Heyman himself had plenty of other alternatives then just letting a complete stranger lie his way into a match. If Axl Rotten couldn't have made it to the show, Heyman could've a)had someone substitute being D'von's partner b)make it a handicap match or c)cancel the match alltogether. Though not directly responsible, D'von Dudley or Mustafa Saed could've stopped New Jack from going too far during the match. They could've improvised a finish. |
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Apr 21, 2021 21:21:34 GMT -5
He was an idiot, most teenagers are idiots, he's like the 4th most responsible person for that fiasco. #3 is New Jack, and it's saying something that the violently unstable man who literally tried to kill a complete stranger for the heck of it isn't the biggest f***up in this scenario. #2 is the kid's dad, for lying for him in the first place. You're supposed to keep your dumbass teenagers in line when they're getting dangerously stupid, not enable them. #1 is Heyman, demonstrating his brilliant business sense by taking the fat teenager who says he's totally a real pro wrestler at his word. Forget finances, even if McMahon was promoting at this scale with the same minimal resources he'd never be stupid enough to expose himself to this sort of massive legal liability for absolutely no reason. *cough*JeffHardy*cough* |
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Apr 21, 2021 22:16:34 GMT -5
And 17 is definitely still a kid. In the sense that he was not legally an adult? Yes absolutely. In the sense that he was too young to know how stupid and dangerous this was? Sorry, that dog don't hunt for me. Based on what? |
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 21, 2021 22:25:41 GMT -5
Watching that dark side episode, it does seem that New Jack does use a wrestling match as a cover to attempt to murder Someone. I mean he flat out mentions and is proud of the fact he tried to kill Vic Grimes. |
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 21, 2021 22:28:54 GMT -5
100%. A normal person in New Jack's position would have just stopped the match and sent him home. Even a carny wrestler who absolutely had to "protect the business" could just tell him to lay down and pin him before sending him home. Even if Mass Transit hadn't died, he still didn't deserve to be cut up by that f***ing psycho. Most wrestlers would likely have noticed he was untrained and told him to lay down or tell the ref and shoot pin them. |
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Apr 21, 2021 23:06:59 GMT -5
In the sense that he was not legally an adult? Yes absolutely. In the sense that he was too young to know how stupid and dangerous this was? Sorry, that dog don't hunt for me. Based on what? I'm not sure I understand the question. What am I basing it on that 17 is old enough to understand that doing something dangerous without proper training, is even more dangerous? If that's the question then I'm basing it on the fact that he was one year shy from being legally an adult. It makes no sense to say that someone all of a sudden is going to magically have the mental capacity to be held accountable for being a dumbass once their 18th birthday hits. |
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Bad Moon
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Post by Bad Moon on Apr 22, 2021 2:51:43 GMT -5
Still not an adult either But by 17 he is old enough to think for himself. Hell I was 17 when I signed up for the Army. The military goes after recruits that young BECAUSE they can't think for themselves yet. They want people to take orders, not make informed decisions. |
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Apr 22, 2021 2:55:02 GMT -5
Some. He made a bad decision and got himself in a bad situation but, nothing justifies New Jack being a psychopath and trying to kill him in a wrestling ring.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Apr 22, 2021 3:11:14 GMT -5
I'm not sure I understand the question. What am I basing it on that 17 is old enough to understand that doing something dangerous without proper training, is even more dangerous? If that's the question then I'm basing it on the fact that he was one year shy from being legally an adult. It makes no sense to say that someone all of a sudden is going to magically have the mental capacity to be held accountable for being a dumbass once their 18th birthday hits. Considering how the human brain develops, there is a pretty significant difference between 17 and 18. We're talking about the ages where development into adulthood happens but isn't quite there. If it was the night before his 18th birthday, then yeah there wouldn't be much of a difference. But between your 17th birthday and your 18th birthday, there's some specific maturation that occurs. |
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